Brexit impact on UK imports?

road_high

The hole in imports and our car fleet will be enormous. There’s not a hope in hell the majority of these people are going to be able to go down the new car route as an alternative.
This is going to become a political issue fairly soon I’d say once people used to the joys of a nice well specced U.K. prestige import realise what’s been taken from them once it comes time to change.
NI is way too small to absorb the demand and even pre Brexit did not hold a candle to GB for value or choice

Atlantic Dawn

road_high wrote: »

This is going to become a political issue fairly soon I’d say once people used to the joys of a nice well specced U.K. prestige import realise what’s been taken from them once it comes time to change.

It looks like the only variable left for the Irish government to control the price would be to cut or suspend VRT on imports which is highly unlikely to happen, they are otherwise committed to the EU/UK trade deal. Perhaps they could suspend VRT on certain cars like electric or hybrid etc.

Our fleet is going to age a lot, older cars will be kept longer on the road.

MetzgerMeister

I got a message from a company who are sourcing a car for me. He said that Revenue have done a U Turn and changed the wording on their website and are now applying a tariff to all cars despite a Brexit deal in place.

That's yet another charge on top is VAT, VRT, NOX Charge and import duty. FFS

Casati

MetzgerMeister wrote: »

I got a message from a company who are sourcing a car for me. He said that Revenue have done a U Turn and changed the wording on their website and are now applying a tariff to all cars despite a Brexit deal in place.

That's yet another charge on top is VAT, VRT and import duty. FFS

. + Nox!!!

MetzgerMeister

Casati wrote: »

. + Nox!!!

Indeed! Post updated/.

pale rider

MetzgerMeister wrote: »

I got a message from a company who are sourcing a car for me. He said that Revenue have done a U Turn and changed the wording on their website and are now applying a tariff to all cars despite a Brexit deal in place.

That's yet another charge on top is VAT, VRT and import duty. FFS

From the Revenue site just now, there has been no change I can see, can you provide a link ?

---

Importing a vehicle from Great Britain (GB) or Northern Ireland
From 1 January 2021 you may have to pay the following when you import a vehicle from Great Britain:

import duties
Vehicle Registration Tax (VRT)
VAT at 21%.
If a vehicle is being imported from Northern Ireland, no import duty will apply but you may be liable to pay:

Vehicle Registration Tax (VRT)
VAT at 21% (only in respect of new vehicles).
An electronic customs declaration will be required in advance of the vehicle arriving in the State.

ELM327

Isambard wrote: »

makes no mention at all of where a car is built. Facebook is rife with people saying a car has to be 40% built of GB parts to avoid Import duty. I'm sure that's a mis-interpretation

This is the goods origin part of the trade deal
I'm not sure that it is a misinterpretation.



There is a divergence between EU and GB "country of origin" now. So if a car goes EU - GB - EU, tarrifs would be due. In order for this not to happen, the car needs to have 40-50% "value added" in GB.

Thomasirl123

MetzgerMeister wrote: »

I got a message from a company who are sourcing a car for me. He said that Revenue have done a U Turn and changed the wording on their website and are now applying a tariff to all cars despite a Brexit deal in place.

That's yet another charge on top is VAT, VRT, NOX Charge and import duty. FFS

I don't see any wording change. What's the difference between import duty and tariff here?

MetzgerMeister

Thomasirl123 wrote: »

I don't see any wording change. What's the difference between import duty and tariff here?

A tariff in this case is just another charge on top of everything. Think of it as paying for the pleasure of having to already pay a fortune to import a car.

Thomasirl123

MetzgerMeister wrote: »

A tariff in this case is just another charge on top of everything. Think of it as paying for the pleasure of having to already pay a fortune to import a car.

I believe they are the same charge.

MetzgerMeister

Thomasirl123 wrote: »

I believe they are the same charge.

I'm only going on what I was told which was that it's on top of VAT, VRT, import duty and Nox.

User1998

There was supposed to be no 10% customs duty because of the trade deal. But now there is. I think thats what your talking about

pale rider

MetzgerMeister wrote: »

I got a message from a company who are sourcing a car for me. He said that Revenue have done a U Turn and changed the wording on their website and are now applying a tariff to all cars despite a Brexit deal in place.

That's yet another charge on top is VAT, VRT, NOX Charge and import duty. FFS

Is there no comparable car available for you in NI that if in Ulster before 31.12.20 would mean that car is VAT free so just VRt and NOx with a customs declaration ?

pale rider

I know this thread has been focused on the importation rather than the price to the end user and that's valuable at least to me and it is appreciated but my research over the past few days on a 2018/19 E Class 220 D SE and an E220d AMG Line from NI shows it is just no longer worthwhile since Jan Ist to import a car from NI despite no VAT on cars that were in the trade up there pre 31.12.20.

I fancied a change on my old '18 E220d and now see it costs me €1700 more to replace it on a like for like basis, mileage, exact model due to WLTP and me not holding out for more if I'm honest, this despite Stg in my favour since I last brought one in last February.

The vrt on a 2019 E220 Amg line is €3800 more than it was a few weeks back amounting to €9825, I just cant do it and propose watching this craziness unfold over the coming weeks or months, I have use of another car so not stuck.

message is hold onto whatever you have for now, cars are going up in value.

Casati

pale rider wrote: »

I know this thread has been focused on the importation rather than the price to the end user and that's valuable at least to me and it is appreciated but my research over the past few days on a 2018/19 E Class 220 D SE and an E220d AMG Line from NI shows it is just no longer worthwhile since Jan Ist to import a car from NI despite no VAT on cars that were in the trade up there pre 31.12.20.

I fancied a change on my old '18 E220d and now see it costs me €1700 more to replace it on a like for like basis, mileage, exact model due to WLTP and me not holding out for more if I'm honest, this despite Stg in my favour since I last brought one in last February.

The vrt on a 2019 E220 Amg line is €3800 more than it was a few weeks back amounting to €9825, I just cant do it and propose watching this craziness unfold over the coming weeks or months, I have use of another car so not stuck.

message is hold onto whatever you have for now, cars are going up in value.

Was looking at a 220d SE for a friend and numbers still stack up - didn’t check AMG

220d Se 9km £25,000 = €28,000
Vrt 23% =. €9142
Nox = €150

Total = €37,292

Think that’s good value - cheapest I see on the web here is a 200d SE in Frank Hogan asking €45,900

Isambard

Casati wrote: »

Was looking at a 220d SE for a friend and numbers still stack up - didn’t check AMG

220d Se 9km £25,000 = €28,000
Vrt 23% =. €9142
Nox = €150

Total = €37,292

Think that’s good value - cheapest I see on the web here is a 200d SE in Frank Hogan asking €45,900

VRT is not a percentage

Casati

Isambard wrote: »

VRT is not a percentage

Incorrect - it is a percentage but it’s actually 23.5% and not 23% as I had a stated, my bad. OMSP against which it’s calculated is €38902

To the other poster I know VAT is 21% but I left it out so it’s not relevant either way. Nox and VRT are separate charges and presented separately by revenue, together they are ‘Registration Tax Total’

pale rider

Casati wrote: »

Was looking at a 220d SE for a friend and numbers still stack up - didn’t check AMG

220d Se 9km £25,000 = €28,000
Vrt 23% =. €9142
Nox = €150

Total = €37,292

Think that’s good value - cheapest I see on the web here is a 200d SE in Frank Hogan asking €45,900

Your numbers are close enough, 2018 E 220 D SE can be bought for €27500-€29000, private or trade if you search, I just sold an '18 E 220d in that range with low KM'S so I don't see that as good value to go up one year similar model.

Casati

pale rider wrote: »

Your numbers are close enough, 2018 E 220 D SE can be bought for €27500-€29000, private or trade if you search, I just sold an '18 E 220d in that range with low KM'S so I don't see that as good value to go up one year similar model.[/quote

Wow, €27,500 for a three year old 220d is very small money when you consider they must be more than double that new. Definitely not worth spending 10k to go up a year.

I really think that anybody who likes buying new cars is really going to do well out of all these Brexit/ WLTP changes as used cars were shedding way too much value with imports driving down the value here of everything.

When imports were really expensive in 80’s and 90’s, cars kept maybe 70% of their value after 3 years. I remember a neighbour getting 15k trade in for a 3 year old 320i that cost 18k new

Car99

Moved from Classic Cars

Cee-Jay-Cee wrote: »

UK imports have all but stopped. I know a lad who at the height of things had 3 car transporters on the road and each of them back 2 or 3 times every week, He sold his trucks late last year and many others have done the same. There simply isn't the market for them anymore.

Because of Brexit and new NOX/emission tarrifs, Imports have become prohibitively expensive for most, yes there will still be some but I would estimate maybe 5% or less of what it used to be. There were 109,000 cars imported in 2019, I would be willing to bet that less than 10,000 will be imported this year and many of them will be niche/classic type cars.

Give it a while and the shortage of good second hand stock will push up prices here and personal mports from the uk will resume.
Car transporter loads for the trade I'm not so sure as they would have to pay the VAT up front might be a bit too messy for them as the value of every car will be logged on entry to the state. Part cash sales and getting customers to reg it in their name with revenue wouldnt work then.

Either that or we'll have a dirty old fleet of diesel cars in the near future which wouldnt appease our European overlords.

MetzgerMeister

pale rider wrote: »

Is there no comparable car available for you in NI that if in Ulster before 31.12.20 would mean that car is VAT free so just VRt and NOx with a customs declaration ?

There's not no. I had a few companies looking on my behalf. I was given one option but it was 7k out of budget just to buy it and then VRT on top of that.

Mckibben23x

Lleyn elec wrote: »

You can avoid paying the UK vat if it’s a vat qualifying UK car.
It’s definalty possible to filter the auction sites for this.

Is that correct? if so great! but do you need to be registered for VAT yourself (eg. sole trader or business) to buy the vehicle in GB at the ex VAT price?

lausp

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

It looks like the only variable left for the Irish government to control the price would be to cut or suspend VRT on imports which is highly unlikely to happen, they are otherwise committed to the EU/UK trade deal. Perhaps they could suspend VRT on certain cars like electric or hybrid etc.

Our fleet is going to age a lot, older cars will be kept longer on the road.

Exactly what I was thinking. Surely removing vrt for second hand cars is the way to go. A collapse in imports will leave a big hole in revenue for the government. With VAT and duty it should still make sense to import and would maintain if not increase government revenue.


All those buyers who were going over for a 3 year old A6 aren't going to turn around and buy a new golf in Ireland for the same money.

logie101

lausp wrote: »

Exactly what I was thinking. Surely removing vrt for second hand cars is the way to go. A collapse in imports will leave a big hole in revenue for the government. With VAT and duty it should still make sense to import and would maintain if not increase government revenue.


All those buyers who were going over for a 3 year old A6 aren't going to turn around and buy a new golf in Ireland for the same money.

I am that buyer! I bought a 3 year old A6 2 years ago in the UK. Fancied a change so was planning to go and buy a 2018/19 A6 in the UK.

I have a seller for my own car and a decent price offered for it.

But unfortunately I will have to pull out of the sale and keep my car as with the VRT, NOX and charges it is just not worth it. It’s just too expensive.

I will probably now hang on to my car for a few more years.

celtic_oz

Margin schemes enable traders of used goods, such as vehicles, to pay VAT based on the profit earned from the resale of those goods, rather than the entire value of the good.
This benefits consumers as it makes used cars more affordable, as the amount of VAT they pay is far smaller compared to the 20% they would pay for a new vehicle.
However, if the current rules had been left unamended, as part of the Northern Ireland Protocol, motor traders in NI would have been unable to access VAT margin schemes for used vehicles they sell which are sourced from GB.
The NFDA said that it had repeatedly stressed that this would have been a major disincentive for NI dealerships to buy used vehicle stock in GB, as it would have led to an immediate 20% increase to the sale price of these vehicles.

https://www.am-online.com/news/latest-news/2021/01/13/government-reinstates-vat-margin-scheme-for-ni-used-car-dealers

I rang a NI dealer, he said the VAT issue for them importing from GB was dealt with yesterday

He said once the car ( even those with GB plates) was registered now to an address in the North then Southerners dont have to worry about customs or vat .. just VRT and NOX same as before ??

He said: “The devil will be in the details...the EU may wonder how they stop used cars entering the Republic of Ireland from Great Britain via Northern Ireland.

“The issue of VAT and duty as used cars enter Ireland remains a live one and may not be so easily fixed.”

MetzgerMeister

celtic_oz wrote: »

https://www.am-online.com/news/latest-news/2021/01/13/government-reinstates-vat-margin-scheme-for-ni-used-car-dealers

I rang a NI dealer, he said the VAT issue for them importing from GB was dealt with yesterday

He said once the car ( even those with GB plates) was registered now to an address in the North then Southerners dont have to worry about customs or vat .. just VRT and NOX same as before ??

Any word on how long it has to be registered up North before it can be imported to the south or is that rubbish?

Also, having to do that will add another owner.

celtic_oz

MetzgerMeister wrote: »

Any word on how long it has to be registered up North before it can be imported to the south or is that rubbish?

Also, having to do that will add another owner.

The VRT office will look at the registered address on the V5 makes no difference since when

We seem to have gone from "its a disaster no UK imports" to "all the same .. must be washed thru NI dealer and one owner added"

Casati

celtic_oz wrote: »

The VRT office will look at the registered address on the V5 makes no difference since when

We seem to have gone from "its a disaster no UK imports" to "all the same .. must be washed thru NI dealer and one owner added"

That is not correct, dealers in N.I don't need to become registered owners. If they don't become the registered owner they need to confirm that the car was imported with correct customs declaration completed

celtic_oz

Casati wrote: »

That is not correct, dealers in N.I don't need to become registered owners. If they don't become the registered owner they need to confirm that the car was imported with correct customs declaration completed

I'm just going on what he told me. It would be interesting to see the how the VRT office handles a V5 with a GB address

Lleyn elec

celtic_oz wrote: »

I'm just going to what he told me. It would be interesting to see the how the VRT office handles a V5 with a GB address

It would be interesting as long as your not the person sitting there waiting for the figure that is pulled from the hat!

clio_16v

Any idea how much vat / customs / whatever else I would pay on parts? Looking to buy a 2nd hand Hybrid battery in the uk and get it shipped over. Price is around 280 pounds

Isambard

clio_16v wrote: »

Any idea how much vat / customs / whatever else I would pay on parts? Looking to buy a 2nd hand Hybrid battery in the uk and get it shipped over. Price is around 280 pounds

ship it to Belfast and drive up and get it?

Darkslcie

Did I read right that there is no import or customs tax when buying from Northern Ireland
? So in theory using something like deliverme.ie as a middle man when buying from England is a viable option?

traco

two years ago I bought my daughters car in NI from an independent dealer. The V5 had the previuous owners name and address in Wales on in. I would think that for import it will need a V5 with an NI keeper as the owner to satisfy revenue down here but i could be wrong.

User1998

clio_16v wrote: »

Any idea how much vat / customs / whatever else I would pay on parts? Looking to buy a 2nd hand Hybrid battery in the uk and get it shipped over. Price is around 280 pounds

10% customs 23% vat

galwaytt

celtic_oz wrote: »

I'm just going on what he told me. It would be interesting to see the how the VRT office handles a V5 with a GB address

They won't do anything with a V5 on a GB address unless you've previously declared it online on Revenue's system for import using the VIN. If that VIN isn't up on their system when you present it at VRT office, then they won't be doing anything for you.

galwaytt

MetzgerMeister wrote: »

Any word on how long it has to be registered up North before it can be imported to the south or is that rubbish?

Also, having to do that will add another owner.

Not yet, but Revenue have said they will be scrutinising those presented via N.I. If vehicles from GB enter N.I. and are 'ultimately' destined for RoI, then you will pay the full gamut of charges.

The key word is 'ultimately'. So they'll be watching for washing through. Putting them in the names of garages in NI won't count I'd imagine, and it'd be too easy to spot anyway.

On an imported car, esp in transactions like this, no of owners won't matter a jot.

Isambard

Darkslcie wrote: »

Did I read right that there is no import or customs tax when buying from Northern Ireland
? So in theory using something like deliverme.ie as a middle man when buying from England is a viable option?

Problem there is you might need an invoice and if it shows GB you're sunk.

Thomasirl123

galwaytt wrote: »

Not yet, but Revenue have said they will be scrutinising those presented via N.I. If vehicles from GB enter N.I. and are 'ultimately' destined for RoI, then you will pay the full gamut of charges.

The key word is 'ultimately'. So they'll be watching for washing through. Putting them in the names of garages in NI won't count I'd imagine, and it'd be too easy to spot anyway.

On an imported car, esp in transactions like this, no of owners won't matter a jot.

Where have you read this? Not saying it won't change but right now ultimate destination isn't part of it.

Vehicles first registered in Great Britain and subsequently registered in Northern Ireland after 1 January 2021
Proof that vehicles were properly imported into Northern Ireland will be required for vehicles first registered in Great Britain and subsequently, after 1 January 2021, either:

registered to a private individual or a business in Northern Ireland
or
sold by a motor dealer with an address in Northern Ireland.
Proof will be in the form of:

a copy of the customs declaration showing the importation of the vehicle into Northern Ireland
or
a T2L document issued by HMRC.
The vehicle must be identifiable from the supporting documentation.

ZiabR

If you buy from Amazon direct, are they fulfilling from their EU warehouses or are items still being sent from the UK to Ireland? For example, I bought 2 mundane items from Amazing over a week ago and neither have been shipped yet despite them being in stock. Seems a right mess at the moment.

Isambard

ZiabR wrote: »

If you buy from Amazon direct, are they fulfilling from their EU warehouses or are items still being sent from the UK to Ireland? For example, I bought 2 mundane items from Amazing over a week ago and neither have been shipped yet despite them being in stock. Seems a right mess at the moment.

(bit off topic...) I don't know about Amazon but JD wildlife are sending bird food supplies for Ireland from Holland and I'm assured not via the UK. I'll let you know next week if they arrive OK.

clio_16v

User1998 wrote: »

10% customs 23% vat

Do you have a source for this? I tried looking on the EU TARIC website and couldn't decipher it. If I pay vat in the UK and Ireland I can claim the UK vat back?

celtic_oz

galwaytt wrote: »

Revenue have said they will be scrutinising those presented via N.I. If vehicles from GB enter N.I. and are 'ultimately' destined for RoI, then you will pay the full gamut of charges.

The key word is 'ultimately'. So they'll be watching for washing through. Putting them in the names of garages in NI won't count I'd imagine, and it'd be too easy to spot anyway.

Can you link to this article / info

There can be no arbitrary "you only did that to import it" guff .. just transparent rules.

User1998

clio_16v wrote: »

Do you have a source for this? I tried looking on the EU TARIC website and couldn't decipher it. If I pay vat in the UK and Ireland I can claim the UK vat back?

Revenue website

UrbanFret

In lay mans terms where am I? I bought a used commercial vehicle off a dealer up north. he bought it in the UK.
He will be giving me an invoice.
is it as you were? he seems to think so.

celtic_oz

UrbanFret wrote: »

In lay mans terms where am I? I bought a used commercial vehicle off a dealer up north. he bought it in the UK.
He will be giving me an invoice.
is it as you were? he seems to think so.

I'd bring proof that he bought it before January

UrbanFret

celtic_oz wrote: »

I'd bring proof that he bought it before January

he imported it in the 2nd week of december so hopefully that will leave it OK.

Thomasirl123

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/brexit/used-car-dealers-urge-clarity-over-new-fees-for-cross-border-trade-39970557.html

Revenue should be giving an answer on the whole thing soon!

MetzgerMeister

From that article:

Cars bought new here (Northern Ireland), then sold second-hand in the Republic, will face Vehicle Registration Tax (VRT) and NOx emission costs already in place, but nothing extra.

Car sales from NI to ROI will boom I'd say.

However, if a dealer from the Republic travels to Britain, buys a car second-hand and brings it back, a 21% tariff and 10% customs fee will be added to the cost.

Funnily it only says "dealer" and not a private individual although I've no doubt the same will apply.

Car99

User1998 wrote: »

10% customs 23% vat

10% Tarriff ? I thought the deal with EU removed all tariffs.