Brexit impact on UK imports?

Isambard

Deleted User wrote: »

Does this apply to secondhand cars?
https://www.revenue.ie/en/importing-vehicles-duty-free-allowances/guide-to-vrt/registration-of-imported-used-vehicles/vehicles-imported-from-gb-and-ni.aspx

10% not applicable to cars built in the UK so cars like the Leaf, Juke, Qashqai, Pulsar, Astra, Mini hatchback, some Toyotas, some Hondas, Jaguars, Land Rover will be 10% cheaper than equivalent European cars.
Getting one of these coming off lease with VAT removed for export would be the cheapest options?

it does apply, it's specifically about secondhand cars. Not entirely clear cut as it depends how much of the car was built of GB input.

Getting hold of one of these cars won't be easy though.

Even without finding a VAT free car coming off lease it is something.
People will have to satisfy themselves with a Jag XE or XF instead of a BMW/Merc/Audi

Marcusm

User1998 wrote: »

I know. Other posters seemed to think you need a VAT number to avail of the 0% VAT. I was just pointing out that you don’t need one

And you are right, the requirement for a VAT number was in relation to an intra-community acquisiton which does not apply after Brexit. It is now GB domestic rules which only require the VAT to be chargeable on the full price (i.e. a VAT qualifying car) and for it to be sold for export. Easier process once the car is VAT qualifyuing.

Sam Russell

Marcusm wrote: »

And you are right, the requirement for a VAT number was in relation to an intra-community acquisiton which does not apply after Brexit. It is now GB domestic rules which only require the VAT to be chargeable on the full price (i.e. a VAT qualifying car) and for it to be sold for export. Easier process once the car is VAT qualifyuing.

Of course, the UK Gov could make all 2nd hand cars exported become VAT qualifying, if they so wished. Then the only problem is the 60% UK content, but even then it is a 10% duty on the pre VAT price, plus freight.

road_high

I’m still more confused than ever! Really keen to hear from someone that’s actually gone through the import process from GB since Jan 01st.

road_high

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Does this apply to secondhand cars?
https://www.revenue.ie/en/importing-vehicles-duty-free-allowances/guide-to-vrt/registration-of-imported-used-vehicles/vehicles-imported-from-gb-and-ni.aspx

10% not applicable to cars built in the UK so cars like the Leaf, Juke, Qashqai, Pulsar, Astra, Mini hatchback, some Toyotas, some Hondas, Jaguars, Land Rover will be 10% cheaper than equivalent European cars.
Getting one of these coming off lease with VAT removed for export would be the cheapest options?

Surely not 10% cheaper? They’d just be operating off the same 0% basis not -10%

Sam Russell

Sam Russell wrote: »

Of course, the UK Gov could make all 2nd hand cars exported become VAT qualifying, if they so wished. Then the only problem is the 60% UK content, but even then it is a 10% duty on the pre VAT price, plus freight.

A used car importer would be very happy with a 10% pre-vrt reduction in cost.

road_high

road_high wrote: »

Surely not 10% cheaper? They’d just be operating off the same 0% basis not -10%

Cars built in EU(not UK) but sold in UK would be subject to Customs duty at 10%

Isambard

Deleted User wrote: »

Cars built in EU(not UK) but sold in UK would be subject to Customs duty at 10%

secondhand cars built anywhere but the UK and then exported to Ireland from GB would attract the 10%. UK built cars containing less than 60% UK parts would be included.

Clearing a car will be a nightmare.

road_high

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Cars built in EU(not UK) but sold in UK would be subject to Customs duty at 10%

Right I get ya! So cars built in England (and it will be England as that’s where all the U.K. cars are Made!) will avoid the 10% excise duty charge if they meet the local content rules of 60%. Sounds like a chink of light at least- Minis, Land rovers, Jaguars are all very desirable and competent cars.
On the bread and butter side the Nissans, Toyota’s, Hondas are some of the most popular sellers here anyhow.
What’s the process of deciding their eligibility?

petrol Nissans appear to be have their engines made in UK so whatever about the 1.5dci the petrol ones will satisfy the local content requirement.
Toyota engines too seem to be made in UK.

it will be a minefield negotiating all this and that is even before you come up against someone in Revenue or NCT centre who will argue against you in spite of supporting paperwork.

Sam Russell

Deleted User wrote: »

A used car importer would be very happy with a 10% pre-vrt reduction in cost.

It would not be a reduction.

They'll have approx. 10% of the cost of the car prior to import which is not subject to VAT.
If they pay £10k including shipping for the car then 10% is not applied on that.

I've scrolled through this thread and haven't seen this , apologies if missed but if you have to pay EU Irish vat on importing from mainland GB and you have brought in a vehicle that has already had GB vat applied from when it was first registered can you not reclaim that vat from UK revenue after you have gone through the whole process.

You shouldn't have to pay double vat I would have thought..

Valentina Short Klutz

Valentina Short Klutz wrote: »

I've scrolled through this thread and haven't seen this , apologies if missed but if you have to pay EU Irish vat on importing from mainland GB and you have brought in a vehicle that has already had GB vat applied from when it was first registered can you not reclaim that vat from UK revenue after you have gone through the whole process.

You shouldn't have to pay double vat I would have thought..

you can spend 25 years of your life fighting the Revenue Commissioners in Court just to get a fair hearing before even being vindicated.
https://carlow-nationalist.ie/2021/01/21/car-importers-get-new-opportunity-to-challenge-vrt-system-in-court/

Sam Russell

Valentina Short Klutz wrote: »

I've scrolled through this thread and haven't seen this , apologies if missed but if you have to pay EU Irish vat on importing from mainland GB and you have brought in a vehicle that has already had GB vat applied from when it was first registered can you not reclaim that vat from UK revenue after you have gone through the whole process.

You shouldn't have to pay double vat I would have thought..

VAT dies once it is owned by a non-VAT registered entity like a private individual. Whether it is Irish or UK VAT.

You pat taxes according to the rules in force at the time.

Isambard

Valentina Short Klutz wrote: »

I've scrolled through this thread and haven't seen this , apologies if missed but if you have to pay EU Irish vat on importing from mainland GB and you have brought in a vehicle that has already had GB vat applied from when it was first registered can you not reclaim that vat from UK revenue after you have gone through the whole process.

You shouldn't have to pay double vat I would have thought..

seems not unless you are registered for VAT in the UK (opinion only).

It's not just cars, Revenue have said that from July VAT will be applied to all imports from GB, no exceptions, collected by An Post. (which I read as meaning huge Customs delays.)

deadlast

I'm looking at importing from GB via a NI dealer. Hopefully just paying vrt/nox.


Two recent articles I've come across:-

https://www.independent.ie/life/motoring/can-i-still-import-a-used-car-39998746.html

https://m.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/business/northern-ireland/no-extra-brexit-fees-for-selling-cars-from-gb-into-republic-northern-ireland-dealers-told-39978032.html


Also link from the revenue:-

https://www.revenue.ie/en/importing-vehicles-duty-free-allowances/guide-to-vrt/registration-of-imported-used-vehicles/vehicles-imported-from-gb-and-ni.aspx

The last section is the relevant one but its a little vague for me. It doesn't state in that section that you won't be liable to VAT and import charges.


We're nearly a month in, surely someone has gone this route by now?

User1998

Its self explanatory. If the car gets properly imported from GB to NI you can import it here free of customs or vat. Its in black and white on Revenue’s website

Isambard

deadlast wrote: »

I'm looking at importing from GB via a NI dealer. Hopefully just paying vrt/nox.


Two recent articles I've come across:-

https://www.independent.ie/life/motoring/can-i-still-import-a-used-car-39998746.html

https://m.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/business/northern-ireland/no-extra-brexit-fees-for-selling-cars-from-gb-into-republic-northern-ireland-dealers-told-39978032.html


Also link from the revenue:-

https://www.revenue.ie/en/importing-vehicles-duty-free-allowances/guide-to-vrt/registration-of-imported-used-vehicles/vehicles-imported-from-gb-and-ni.aspx

The last section is the relevant one but its a little vague for me. It doesn't state in that section that you won't be liable to VAT and import charges.


We're nearly a month in, surely someone has gone this route by now?

once the Dealer adds his profit margin, I can't see you being better off

Isambard

User1998 wrote: »

Its self explanatory. If the car gets properly imported from GB to NI you can import it here free of customs or vat. Its in black and white on Revenue’s website

KPMG say "EU Tariffs may apply to goods brought into Northern Ireland from Great Britain. The Tariffs will apply if there is a risk that the goods will subsequently be moved to the EU. If the goods are not at risk of movement to the EU, then no tariffs should apply.

in other words, cars will be subject to tariffs.

Sam Russell

Isambard wrote: »

KPMG say "EU Tariffs may apply to goods brought into Northern Ireland from Great Britain. The Tariffs will apply if there is a risk that the goods will subsequently be moved to the EU. If the goods are not at risk of movement to the EU, then no tariffs should apply.

in other words, cars will be subject to tariffs.

OK, so a NI buyer wants to buy a new VW Golf, made in Germany, does the car get shipped direct from Germany to NI, so avoiding GB and any tariff or duty. VAT is charged on entry to NI as currently. Is that right?

Or, a NI buyer wants to buy a Vauxhall (Opel) Astra made in Bridgend, if it meets Rules of Origin (60% UK sourced), then zero tariff, and VAT as above. Is that right?

Now, why not save all of this, and NI cars are supplied from Ireland (without VRT) and without fuss. Would that work?

CJhaughey

Sam Russell wrote: »

OK, so a NI buyer wants to buy a new VW Golf, made in Germany, does the car get shipped direct from Germany to NI, so avoiding GB and any tariff or duty. VAT is charged on entry to NI as currently. Is that right?

Or, a NI buyer wants to buy a Vauxhall (Opel) Astra made in Bridgend, if it meets Rules of Origin (60% UK sourced), then zero tariff, and VAT as above. Is that right?

Now, why not save all of this, and NI cars are supplied from Ireland (without VRT) and without fuss. Would that work?

Not sure the NI distributors would be all that happy with this arrangement.
It would put them out of business.

Sam Russell

CJhaughey wrote: »

Not sure the NI distributors would be all that happy with this arrangement.
It would put them out of business.

Are there any distributors in NI?

Surely the distributors that serve NI are based in GB, and are generally the same ownership as those in Ireland. A few of the Irish ones are not owned by the manufacturers, but not many.

road_high

Isambard wrote: »

given that we'll be paying for COVID for the next few decades, It's a bit unrealistic to be expecting any tax to be reduced. In practical terms also it would leave a lot of people paying back big loans for devalued cars.

Increasing taxes or leaving them at excessively high rates does little except stifle demand and growth. We are well part that with Irish car tax rates. Hence why there’s been such an influence of U.K. imports. New cars here are just priced out of reach for many

road_high

Sam Russell wrote: »

Are there any distributors in NI?

Surely the distributors that serve NI are based in GB, and are generally the same ownership as those in Ireland. A few of the Irish ones are not owned by the manufacturers, but not many.

It’s possible some are even served from Dublin?. Definitely happens with lots of other goods. NI is served from the Dublin office or warehouse.

BorneTobyWilde

Lots of people in youtube with videos converting RHD TO LHD, and LHD TO RHD . European cars.

How viable would it be though. Would need to be a set price conversion.

BorneTobyWilde

Would be great to see some companies in Germany go into RHD conversion. The market would be huge

BorneTobyWilde

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

Would be great to see some companies in Germany go into RHD conversion. The market would be huge

secondhand prices in Germany are typically higher than in UK/Ireland.

Bluefoam

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

Would be great to see some companies in Germany go into RHD conversion. The market would be huge

Literally, the market would be small... Very niche. They'd have better oportunities by selling their cars as LHD & not risking capital by converting them.

road_high

Has anyone ever checked out used car prices on the continent? Old cars are kept running and still making big money. Even in Germany. Some countries have more penal taxes than us. Here the majority of such older cars would have been scrapped long ago.
The U.K. is our best option still so long as loopholes can be established and shock horror some pragmatism from our junta on the rules they can control

Thomasirl123

McGiver wrote: »

I'd say your posts should for trying to moderate.

Now, regarding "it's BS" - Not at all, what I wrote is 100% correct. For individual buyers I should add.

I wasn't talking about EU VAT registered businesses, we got that clarified in later posts.

Saying that, I believe you were not talking about VAT registered business scenario.

100% haha not even in the ballpark!
It's OK to admit you're wrong, it's not a weakness.

McGiver

Ireland should switch to LHD. End of story. Start campaigning

Sweden could pull it off 60 years ago.

Sam Russell

McGiver wrote: »

Ireland should switch to LHD. End of story. Start campaigning

Sweden could pull it off 60 years ago.

We could only do that if it was an all island approach, and really if there was a united Ireland. So just leave that there.

We could have changed 60 years ago, but then we went and built all those new motorways and upgraded nearly all the others. Then we only had a few old bangers then, and now we have a few million cars, all RHD. What happens to them?

Those cars have a life of between 10 and twenty years, so for 10 years the majority of cars will be RHD. The majority of cars in Sweden when they changed were LHD already. It was for this reason they decided to change.

So the cost of changing every road sign, traffic light, road marking from one side of the road to the other would build us quite a few metros in Dublin plus a few around the country. Then some of our roads would require re-engineering as the direction of travel is reversed - more huge cost.

It is not possible that it could be afforded.

ELM327

Plenty of countries switch driving sides at the borders. We are an island with two jurisdictions (for now) so this wouldnt be an issue.

Isambard

ELM327 wrote: »

Plenty of countries switch driving sides at the borders. We are an island with two jurisdictions (for now) so this wouldnt be an issue.

can you give an example? love to see how that works.

ELM327

Isambard wrote: »

can you give an example? love to see how that works.

https://www.quora.com/At-what-points-in-the-world-do-roads-switch-from-left-hand-drive-to-right-hand-drive

Isambard

ELM327 wrote: »

https://www.quora.com/At-what-points-in-the-world-do-roads-switch-from-left-hand-drive-to-right-hand-drive

brilliant! Smaller crossing points would be a bigger problem to sort out though, where a massive interchange can't be justified.

I'd forgotten India is RHD, possible source of cars for Ireland? Indian built cars are quite cheap (compared to imports) so might be an option

bazz26

Not to mention the cost of converting all the infrastructure here to drive on the other side of the road. There is a bit more than just moving signs. Who pays for all that? You and everyone else through higher taxes. Then you have the private sector who will pass the costs of converting their infrastructure and national fleet on to the consumer. Sure we will start whinging about that too.

Even if we lived in pixie land and all the above could be done for next to nothing you then have the fact that governments for decades have been milking taxes from motorists. Even taking Brexit out of the picture, they still changed the VRT rates in January which for the most part have added a double whammy in taxes increases on cars. Cheaper lhd cars on the Continent won't automatically mean they will be cheaper to land here. You can be sure they would create another makey upy tax in the name of climate change to screw over the motorist.

Sam Russell

bazz26 wrote: »

Not to mention the cost of converting all the infrastructure here to drive on the other side of the road. There is a bit more than just moving signs. Who pays for all that? You and everyone else through higher taxes. Then you have the private sector who will pass the costs of converting their infrastructure and national fleet on to the consumer. Sure we will start whinging about that too.

Even if we lived in pixie land and all the above could be done for next to nothing you then have the fact that governments for decades have been milking taxes from motorists. Even taking Brexit out of the picture, they still changed the VRT rates in January which for the most part have added a double whammy in taxes increases on cars. Cheaper lhd cars on the Continent won't automatically mean they will be cheaper to land here. You can be sure they would create another makey upy tax in the name of climate change to screw over the motorist.

LHD cars are not cheaper in Europe - particularly older ones. The import taxes will still be the same. GB cars will be the same price if they are VAT registered and comply with rules of origin - eg ex-lease cars or commercial vehicles. Privately owned cars will need VAT paying on import - even if sold by a garage.

Casati

Sam Russell wrote: »

LHD cars are not cheaper in Europe - particularly older ones. The import taxes will still be the same. GB cars will be the same price if they are VAT registered and comply with rules of origin - eg ex-lease cars or commercial vehicles. Privately owned cars will need VAT paying on import - even if sold by a garage.

Cars coming from England are now liable to duty at 10% though - but I agree it’s totally stupid to consider LHD

bazz26

Sam Russell wrote: »

LHD cars are not cheaper in Europe - particularly older ones. The import taxes will still be the same. GB cars will be the same price if they are VAT registered and comply with rules of origin - eg ex-lease cars or commercial vehicles. Privately owned cars will need VAT paying on import - even if sold by a garage.

I know but some seem to think that converting to lhd here will make cars cheaper from the Continent.

ELM327

Not that they will make it cheaper, merely more accessible.

Car99

ELM327 wrote: »

Not that they will make it cheaper, merely more accessible.

Converting a modern car from LHD to RHD would cost a fortune and how would you get it certified for insurance purposes ? An engineers report to sign off that it was all done 100% might be impossible to obtain .

It's a non starter.

ELM327

Car99 wrote: »

Converting a modern car from LHD to RHD would cost a fortune and how would you get it certified for insurance purposes ? An engineers report to sign off that it was all done 100% might be impossible to obtain .

It's a non starter.

You don't need to convert, it is perfectly legal and safe to drive LHD here.
I have done for several cars as a fan of US cars. I had even an LHD kuwaiti rolls royce!

User1998

ELM327 wrote: »

You don't need to convert, it is perfectly legal and safe to drive LHD here.
I have done for several cars as a fan of US cars. I had even an LHD kuwaiti rolls royce!

And what happens when you get to a toll boot, drive thru, or car park ticket machine

Car99

User1998 wrote: »

And what happens when you get to a toll boot, drive thru, or car park ticket machine

You get one of these

Car99

ELM327 wrote: »

You don't need to convert, it is perfectly legal and safe to drive LHD here.
I have done for several cars as a fan of US cars. I had even an LHD kuwaiti rolls royce!

I must have taken up what you said in an earlier post incorrectly. I thought you said converting cars from LHD to RHD would make them more accessible.

I have a LHD car in Ireland which I dont have any problem using. Front seat passengers find it a bit unnerving though .

Isambard

Car99 wrote: »

You get one of these

i used to climb out and walk around.....

James Bond Junior

I'd love if we switched but it's not really practical. I drive LHD in an LHD country and it feels much more natural as it happens, especially as a right handed person. Nothing beats the panic when you switch back, drive out your driveway and cannot remember which side of the road you should be on!