Brexit impact on UK imports?

lifer_sean

robodonkey wrote: »

Probably done to death but I can't see anything concrete stated in this thread (either experiences on import or specific knowledge from revenue). From the latest guidance I could find on Private Buyer from UK (VAT Registered) trader that I could see, at this link, my understanding would be that I could buy from UK dealer (a VAT registered one) and import paying VRT (CO2/Nox) as normal. Any expert knowledge out there that can clarify why I'm (likely) wrong?

10.1 Purchase of second-hand vehicles by a private individual from a
person in another country
Where a private individual purchases a second-hand vehicle from a VAT-registered
trader, including a motor dealer, in another country
Where a private individual purchases a second-hand vehicle from a motor dealer or
any VAT-registered trader in another country, the price will generally include any
VAT or other tax chargeable in that country. This VAT cannot be reclaimed. There is
no VAT liability in Ireland. In respect of VRT, the owner of the vehicle must make a
booking with an NCTS Centre within 7 days of the vehicle entering the State and
registration must be completed within 30 days of the vehicle entering the State. The
VRT liability can be calculated using the VRT Calculator on the Revenue website.

I believe this section (10.1) refers to purchasing a car within the EU, although it doesn't read very clearly. Section 10.3 refers to importint a car into the EU (ie from UK to Ireland for example), and VAT and duty are payable.

gally74

lifer_sean wrote: »

I believe this section (10.1) refers to purchasing a car within the EU, although it doesn't read very clearly. Section 10.3 refers to importint a car into the EU (ie from UK to Ireland for example), and VAT and duty are payable.

see section 14.4 ,

robodonkey

Sam Russell wrote: »

Where does that quote come from, and what date was it last changed? Is it post Jan 2021?

Comes from revenue's own document, link in the post.

robodonkey

Aaaand there it is in black and white, thanks to poster above. Section 10.3 clears that up. Reading *all* of the sections is of great benefit

BorneTobyWilde

UK only days into Brexit and they are already backing out of the Northern Ireland Protocol. Can't trust a thing they put their name to.
They want Protocol to be put off until 2023, and currently it's a free for all, no checks, customs agents run out of the place.

Isambard

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

UK only days into Brexit and they are already backing out of the Northern Ireland Protocol. Can't trust a thing they put their name to.
They want Protocol to be put off until 2023, and currently it's a free for all, no checks, customs agents run out of the place.

NI will be the big loser in all this. Maybe they should have put off Brexit until 2023

Sam Russell

Isambard wrote: »

NI will be the big loser in all this. Maybe they should have put off Brexit until 2023

Or better still, until 2053.

BorneTobyWilde

Naaa year 3000

Car99

Isambard wrote: »

NI will be the big loser in all this. Maybe they should have put off Brexit until 2023

NI's economy will be in tatters when all this settles.

Sam Russell

Back on topic, does an import from NI, for a NI registered car, attract VAT for all cars. Also, no Rules of Origin so no tariff.

My understanding is that for a normal sale (private owned car) from the GB side requires Irish VAT on sale price and shipping, and the VRT and NOX.

For a GB VAT registered seller with a VAT qualifying car (such as ex lease), costing say £12,000, you do not pay UK VAT, so it costs £10,000. When presented, you pay VAT on £10,000 @21% so you paid £10,000 = €11,500 and add VAT €2,415 = €13,915. [I've ignored shipping]. Add NOX and VRT to taste.

If it is not VAT qualifying, eg seller is private individual. The VAT is based on £12,000 so the cost is an extra €477. It takes the shine off it.

That all assumes that there is no tariff of 10% if it does not qualify because of Rules of Origin. That is another bag of worms.

Isambard

Sam Russell wrote: »

Back on topic, does an import from NI, for a NI registered car, attract VAT for all cars. Also, no Rules of Origin so no tariff.

My understanding is that for a normal sale (private owned car) from the GB side requires Irish VAT on sale price and shipping, and the VRT and NOX.

For a GB VAT registered seller with a VAT qualifying car (such as ex lease), costing say £12,000, you do not pay UK VAT, so it costs £10,000. When presented, you pay VAT on £10,000 @21% so you paid £10,000 = €11,500 and add VAT €2,415 = €13,915. [I've ignored shipping]. Add NOX and VRT to taste.

If it is not VAT qualifying, eg seller is private individual. The VAT is based on £12,000 so the cost is an extra €477. It takes the shine off it.

That all assumes that there is no tariff of 10% if it does not qualify because of Rules of Origin. That is another bag of worms.

the intention was that the situation re Ni to RoI sales post Brexit wouldn't change and that you could therefore buy an NI car on the same basis as you would a French or German (or indeed a GB car pre Brexit). there should therefore be just VRT to pay. For a GB registered car bought from NI, you'd need proof of it's "proper import" to NI and then it too would be free of extra taxes. Whether that's what is actually going to happen is anyones guess.

What is proper import, very frustrating trying to find that out. It could be proof a NI dealer bought the car and brought it into NI or it could mean NI Reg plates or some other more formal process.

User1998

It means a customs declaration was made when it traveled from GB to NI

Isambard

User1998 wrote: »

It means a customs declaration was made when it traveled from GB to NI

yes or a form of some sort issued by Customs. Car then would need to be owned by a NI resident or company or taken into stock by a Car Dealer.

https://www.revenue.ie/en/importing-vehicles-duty-free-allowances/guide-to-vrt/registration-of-imported-used-vehicles/vehicles-registered-in-great-britain-and-routed-through-northern-ireland.aspx

I wouldn't recommend trying "Note

Importations of used cars from Great Britain into the State must be declared to customs and are liable to customs duty and VAT on importation. The routing of such importations through Northern Ireland to avoid EU requirements in relation to customs duty and VAT at import will not be permitted. "

User1998

User1998 wrote: »

It means a customs declaration was made when it traveled from GB to NI

But would custom's declarations have been in operation between GB and NI in 2020.

User1998

No not that I know of. Maybe ferry ticket would suffice

Isambard

User1998 wrote: »

No not that I know of. Maybe ferry ticket would suffice

yes it probably would "Vehicles imported from Great Britain and Northern Ireland
Vehicles imported to Ireland before 1 January 2021
These vehicles can be registered as normal. You must provide documentation to prove that the vehicle was imported prior to 1 January 2021. An example of the documentation would be a sales invoice or a ferry ticket."

this info is actually for cars into RoI before 1.1.21 but nmaybe the same applies to NI

robodonkey

https://www.rte.ie/news/business/2021/0208/1195704-uk-car-imports/

So it looks like, if the car arrived in NI before 1.1.21 then it may be ok (in the same way that a car imported to RoI before 1.1.21 would also be ok). A question for Revenue RoI to confirm what documentary evidence may be required to prove same.

Thomasirl123

robodonkey wrote: »

https://www.rte.ie/news/business/2021/0208/1195704-uk-car-imports/

So it looks like, if the car arrived in NI before 1.1.21 then it may be ok (in the same way that a car imported to RoI before 1.1.21 would also be ok). A question for Revenue RoI to confirm what documentary evidence may be required to prove same.

Effectively cut off UK imports! Keep all those dirty diesel passats on the road

User1998

Thomasirl123 wrote: »

Effectively cut off UK imports! Keep all those dirty diesel passats on the road

Unfortunately for you and the green party, we’ll just be driving Irish dirty diesels instead

Thomasirl123

User1998 wrote: »

Unfortunately for you and the green party, we’ll just be driving Irish dirty diesels instead

That's exactly what I'm saying.

reubenreuben

Thomasirl123 wrote: »

That's exactly what I'm saying.

And me.
My 2014 diesel if imported now has almost twice the import cost due to NOx charges. And the crazy thing is, it costs a low E270/year to tax so not a high polluting car, yet there would be no way now I would pay that NOx charge to import another as the import costs would be about 2/3rds the actual paid cost of the car.

Greens are not green at all.

ELM327

The greens have never been green. From the move to diesel to the enforced now move to EVs that take significant upfront cost and then significant kms driven to even break even on emissions from building the car.
(Disclaimer I own a Tesla but it's not for green nonsense, I work in tech)

Isambard

i would take no notice of the Greens at all. They think it's greener to drive via the M8 and a new road from Cahir to Limerick than to drive the much shorter N20 corridor.

robodonkey

I got in touch with Revenue VRT person mid week - spoke to a helpful chap there and he confirmed that if car was brought in to NI *before* 1.1.21 and there was paper evidence to that effect, the car would *not* be subject to any VAT or Customs Duty claim regardless of Margin Scheme/Company Car source or any other factors.

I've nothing in writing from the chap but, for what its worth this was his statement of fact.

HTH someone here - when the existing stock of 2020 imports gets sold I'd imagine the situation will change and the provenance / VAT history / parts / factory that's building the thing become important. Madness but there ya go.

Thomasirl123

robodonkey wrote: »

I got in touch with Revenue VRT person mid week - spoke to a helpful chap there and he confirmed that if car was brought in to NI *before* 1.1.21 and there was paper evidence to that effect, the car would *not* be subject to any VAT or Customs Duty claim regardless of Margin Scheme/Company Car source or any other factors.

I've nothing in writing from the chap but, for what its worth this was his statement of fact.

HTH someone here - when the existing stock of 2020 imports gets sold I'd imagine the situation will change and the provenance / VAT history / parts / factory that's building the thing become important. Madness but there ya go.

He hardly mentioned what paper evidence means?

Isambard

robodonkey wrote: »

I got in touch with Revenue VRT person mid week - spoke to a helpful chap there and he confirmed that if car was brought in to NI *before* 1.1.21 and there was paper evidence to that effect, the car would *not* be subject to any VAT or Customs Duty claim regardless of Margin Scheme/Company Car source or any other factors.

I've nothing in writing from the chap but, for what its worth this was his statement of fact.

HTH someone here - when the existing stock of 2020 imports gets sold I'd imagine the situation will change and the provenance / VAT history / parts / factory that's building the thing become important. Madness but there ya go.

i've a history of importing the odd Cortina, in future I'd have to check the VIN plate to see if it's Dagenham or Saarlouis built. I suppose the tax people will have to do this with multiple car builders, and there's bound to be delays and errors

robodonkey

He was indicating to me that a Ferry Ticket or shipping manifest - something that has the reg number and the date of entry would suffice - same as what you’d bring to VRT as evidence of date of entry.

Thomasirl123

Thomasirl123 wrote: »

He hardly mentioned what paper evidence means?

From Revenue website below, they refer to examples so presumably there are other options provided you can satisfy revenue the vehicle was in NI before 2021.

Vehicles imported to Ireland before 1 January 2021
These vehicles can be registered as normal. You must provide documentation to prove that the vehicle was imported prior to 1 January 2021. An example of the documentation would be a sales invoice or a ferry ticket.

Tinkles20

UrbanFret wrote: »

In lay mans terms where am I? I bought a used commercial vehicle off a dealer up north. he bought it in the UK.
He will be giving me an invoice.
is it as you were? he seems to think so.

How did you get on?

I am after buying a used, GB Plated/GB V5 car from a dealer in NI, they imported it to NI in December 2020.

I have asked them for a customs form or a ferry ticket/manifest.
They have already given me the Upfront VAT Invoice for their purchase of the car dated 17th December, it features the reg plate and address of dealership.

Also have tried contacting customs but no dice.

I just don't want to arrive for the VRT and be shafted.

User1998

VRT people don’t collect VAT. They’ll either let you pay your VRT or they’ll inform you that you’ll have to contact customs and pay the relevant import duties before you can pay VRT

Tinkles20

User1998 wrote: »

VRT people don’t collect VAT. They’ll either let you pay your VRT or they’ll inform you that you’ll have to contact customs and pay the relevant import duties before you can pay VRT

Aha. Thank you User1998 for the clarity and help!

I am contemplating just going for it, and then I can let you all know what works or what doesn't as the case may be?

Perhaps at the very least I could get the NI dealer to allow me to swap the GB reg car for an NI reg one, if the proof of import pre Jan 2021 doesn't work...

Casati

Tinkles20 wrote: »

How did you get on?

I am after buying a used, GB Plated/GB V5 car from a dealer in NI, they imported it to NI in December 2020.

I have asked them for a customs form or a ferry ticket/manifest.
They have already given me the Upfront VAT Invoice for their purchase of the car dated 17th December, it features the reg plate and address of dealership.

Also have tried contacting customs but no dice.

I just don't want to arrive for the VRT and be shafted.

Did the dealer seriously provide you with the VAT invoice they paid on purchasing the car - by doing so you can obviously see the margin they have made on the car? I am shocked that a dealer would share this information with you unless they know you extremely well? I can't imagine many (any?) other businesses sharing such confidential information with a customer, or indeed that it be a reasonable request of revenue here to expect that you could have access to such data.

What do the dealers on Boards think of this?

Tinkles20

Casati wrote: »

Did the dealer seriously provide you with the VAT invoice they paid on purchasing the car - by doing so you can obviously see the margin they have made on the car? I am shocked that a dealer would share this information with you unless they know you extremely well? I can't imagine many (any?) other businesses sharing such confidential information with a customer, or indeed that it be a reasonable request of revenue here to expect that you could have access to such data.

What do the dealers on Boards think of this?

The exact financials are whited out. You can see the Vat % paid, and all dealer details, vat code, address, car reg etc etc.
I agree with you on it being bizarre if I was to be able to see margin etc, that would be counterproductive and not competitive for them to do.
The sales guy is speaking to the owner of the company tomorrow to find out what else I can be given to help, the shipping manifest for example, or "ferry ticket".

He had previously allowed the sales guy to send me the whited out Vat invoice, so heres hoping it's as straight forward as it seems.
Ie. Proof of entry of NI and voila

steve2012

Probably answered loads of times already but i cant see anything.

I'm planning on purchasing a car from a Uk dealer and ship it into Ireland. is VAT mandatory on used cars also?
If so, are UK dealers willing to sell the car without charging the VAT or does it have to be claimed back?
Secondly, do many of you's know some good companies that will transport the car from the UK to Dublin. Is €500 a good price

User1998

steve2012 wrote: »

Probably answered loads of times already but i cant see anything.

I'm planning on purchasing a car from a Uk dealer and ship it into Ireland. is VAT mandatory on used cars also?
If so, are UK dealers willing to sell the car without charging the VAT or does it have to be claimed back?
Secondly, do many of you's know some good companies that will transport the car from the UK to Dublin. Is €500 a good price

All cars coming from mainland uk are subject to 10% customs and 23% vat. You can buy vat qualifying cars from the uk with the 20% uk vat deducted. Generally these cars are ex company cars and less than 3 years old. Depending on the type of car your looking for, you’ll probably struggle to find one that is vat qualifying.

If you do find one, you still have to pay 10% customs and the additional 3% vat (20% vs 23%) as well as the increased VRT now.

VAT and customs are based on the price of the car + shipping. So theres additional costs there. Shipping is around €450-€500.

Customs broker fee is around €250 also

Isambard

User1998 wrote: »

All cars coming from mainland uk are subject to 10% customs and 23% vat. You can buy vat qualifying cars from the uk with the 20% uk vat deducted. Generally these cars are ex company cars and less than 3 years old. Depending on the type of car your looking for, you’ll probably struggle to find one that is vat qualifying.

If you do find one, you still have to pay 10% customs and the additional 3% vat (20% vs 23%) as well as the increased VRT now.

VAT and customs are based on the price of the car + shipping. So theres additional costs there. Shipping is around €450-€500.

Customs broker fee is around €250 also

GB cars that were built in the UK do not attract the 10%
VAT is currently 21% I think
VAT qualifying cars also include ex-lease vehicles, hire cars and similar.

User1998

The cars that are built in the UK also need to use at least 60% of UK parts, so very few cars actually qualify.

VAT is back to 23% in two weeks time

Yes cars owned by companies. ie company cars

Isambard

Rather more than a few qualify.Many "foreign" cars are UK built and would easily contain more than 60%

Possibly the reduced rate might be extended.

a Company Car in the UK usually refers to a Fleet or Pool car. Ex Lease and ex Rental are usually referred to as such.

User1998

Theres a small amount of Hondas Toyotas and Nissans built in the UK, and out of those we can’t just assume they would easily contain 60%. A lot of the parts would have been imported from abroad.

Then theres the British brand like Jaguar/Land Rover etc. But again its difficult to say how much of the parts themselves were manufactured in the UK.

Theres also the issue of proving to revenue the car qualifies for the 60% rule. No doubt it will be up to the importer to prove. I’d guess less than 10% of cars actually qualify at a push

Paschal has confirmed the temporary reduction is ending in 2 weeks

Best to just assume 10% customs and 23% vat

lalababa

Do ye think this is the end of privately imported cars from UK mainland?
Or will there still be a good saving over the dealers?
And what impact will (the glut??) of 3+ year old ex pcp cars (supposedly coming down the line) have on the 2nd hand market?

bs2014

Looks like even car dealers are having to just buy UK cars to see what exactly is the final outcome. Madness and I do feel sorry for irish dealers with so much uncertainty.
https://www-irishtimes-com.cdn.ampproject.org/c/s/www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/motors/buying-a-used-car-here-s-why-prices-look-set-to-rise-1.4481209?mode=amp

Casati

User1998 wrote: »

Theres a small amount of Hondas Toyotas and Nissans built in the UK, and out of those we can’t just assume they would easily contain 60%. A lot of the parts would have been imported from abroad.

Then theres the British brand like Jaguar/Land Rover etc. But again its difficult to say how much of the parts themselves were manufactured in the UK.

Theres also the issue of proving to revenue the car qualifies for the 60% rule. No doubt it will be up to the importer to prove. I’d guess less than 10% of cars actually qualify at a push

Paschal has confirmed the temporary reduction is ending in 2 weeks

Best to just assume 10% customs and 23% vat

Does each car not have a country of origin in the V5 or elsewhere stamped on the car?

Sam Russell

Casati wrote: »

Does each car not have a country of origin in the V5 or elsewhere stamped on the car?

It is not as simple as that.

A car that is manufactured wholly in the UK would be a rare beast. Most cars that are assembled in the UK are made from components from many sources, some UK, some EU and some from third countries. To be imported without duty, 60% must be UK sourced.

I do not know how they can work that out.

User1998

Just checked it’s not stated on the logbook anyway

Casati

Sam Russell wrote: »

It is not as simple as that.

A car that is manufactured wholly in the UK would be a rare beast. Most cars that are assembled in the UK are made from components from many sources, some UK, some EU and some from third countries. To be imported without duty, 60% must be UK sourced.

I do not know how they can work that out.

Are you sure that country of origin is not assigned to every car at point of manufacture - this is not a new issue after all as duty has been payable on cars from outside the EU to EU countries for decades.

If it was deemed that say a Nissan Leaf assembled in U.K. in 2017 was a Japanese car then it was liable for duty at 10%?

bs2014

You'd love to be able to argue, its up for revenue to proof the car was not made in the UK rather than us having to proof it was lol

Sam Russell

Casati wrote: »

Are you sure that country of origin is not assigned to every car at point of manufacture - this is not a new issue after all as duty has been payable on cars from outside the EU to EU countries for decades.

If it was deemed that say a Nissan Leaf assembled in U.K. in 2017 was a Japanese car then it was liable for duty at 10%?

It never mattered before Jan 1st, all EU manufactured cars were duty free but since then it now matters.

Take a Nissan Leaf - manufactured in the UK with Japanese batteries that probable means it fails the rules of origin. Or an Opel/Vauxhall Astra assembles in the UK but from what parts - was the engine and gearbox UK sourced?

It will be a major issue.

TheWonderLlama

Sam Russell wrote: »

It is not as simple as that.

A car that is manufactured wholly in the UK would be a rare beast. Most cars that are assembled in the UK are made from components from many sources, some UK, some EU and some from third countries. To be imported without duty, 60% must be UK sourced.

I do not know how they can work that out.

I think you mean that in order to be imported, 60% must be EU sourced.


Each component supplier must certify to the manufacturer the place of manufacture of the component they are supplying. These are all then grouped by the manufacturer for the percentage calculation.


I've done a load of them in January because the manufacturers were cutting out the use of UK parts from their cars.

User1998

TheWonderLlama wrote: »

I think you mean that in order to be imported, 60% must be EU sourced.


Each component supplier must certify to the manufacturer the place of manufacture of the component they are supplying. These are all then grouped by the manufacturer for the percentage calculation.


I've done a load of them in January because the manufacturers were cutting out the use of UK parts from their cars.

No, 60% of the parts have to be UK sourced, not EU