Brexit impact on UK imports?

Casati

Sam Russell wrote: »

It never mattered before Jan 1st, all EU manufactured cars were duty free but since then it now matters.

Take a Nissan Leaf - manufactured in the UK with Japanese batteries that probable means it fails the rules of origin. Or an Opel/Vauxhall Astra assembles in the UK but from what parts - was the engine and gearbox UK sourced?

It will be a major issue.

If the Leaf fails the rules of origin rules to be classified as UK origin now, then surely it would have failed the rules prior to Jan 1st to be classified as EU manufactured, and duty would have being applicable when sold in EU -i.e. on the basis that it was actually a Japanese car using country of origin rules?

bazz26

Isn't the vehicle's VIN include a number of digits to decipher the country of manufacturer? That's obviously not to say where every component in the car originates from. I don't think there is a product produced in world that every sub component originates from the same country.

Isambard

User1998 wrote: »

No, 60% of the parts have to be UK sourced, not EU

yes to satisfy the rules of origin 60% of a GB car imported here must be of GB origin.

Don't forget the 60% includes the fixed costs of the plant and labour. I would think most cars assembled in the UK would qualify. How you prove it is a different matter. Total minefield

Casati

bazz26 wrote: »

Isn't the vehicle's VIN include a number of digits to decipher the country of manufacturer? That's obviously not to say where every component in the car originates from. I don't think there is a product produced in world that every sub component originates from the same country.

Just checked and your 100% right. The country of origin is listed on the VIN of every car so this must be reasonable proof for revenue/ customs

User1998

Isambard wrote: »

Don't forget the 60% includes the fixed costs of the plant and labour.

Thats an interesting one, didn’t know that

Sam Russell

Casati wrote: »

If the Leaf fails the rules of origin rules to be classified as UK origin now, then surely it would have failed the rules prior to Jan 1st to be classified as EU manufactured, and duty would have being applicable when sold in EU -i.e. on the basis that it was actually a Japanese car using country of origin rules?

No, before the end of transition, the car would be considered of EU origin if 60% was produced in the EU which included the UK. After Jan 1st, it is either an EU car (60% EU) or a UK car (60% UK). You need to know which.

TheWonderLlama

User1998 wrote: »

No, 60% of the parts have to be UK sourced, not EU

but that takes it out of the preferential treatment regime. And into tariff territory.

Casati

Sam Russell wrote: »

No, before the end of transition, the car would be considered of EU origin if 60% was produced in the EU which included the UK. After Jan 1st, it is either an EU car (60% EU) or a UK car (60% UK). You need to know which.

Sorry I don't follow - are you saying say a 2020 Leaf assembled in the UK plant, which I buy second-hand in England now, could be considered a EU car and as such attract 10% customs duty?

ELM327

Sam Russell wrote: »

No, before the end of transition, the car would be considered of EU origin if 60% was produced in the EU which included the UK. After Jan 1st, it is either an EU car (60% EU) or a UK car (60% UK). You need to know which.

Thankfully no cars are built in NI, as this would further complicate things.


How is the 60% valued is anyones guess.

Sam Russell

Casati wrote: »

Sorry I don't follow - are you saying say a 2020 Leaf assembled in the UK plant, which I buy second-hand in England now, could be considered a EU car and as such attract 10% customs duty?

No, it will be considered a non UK car if less than 60% of the car is sourced in the UK, which given the batteries are from Japan is likely.

ELM327

Casati wrote: »

Sorry I don't follow - are you saying say a 2020 Leaf assembled in the UK plant, which I buy second-hand in England now, could be considered a EU car and as such attract 10% customs duty?

No. It's either a GB car and there is no duty, or it's a 3rd country non GB car (ie Japan in this instance) and duty may be due as the deal between GB and EU doesnt cover non GB built cars. If it's only assembled in GB, but built in JP, it would not be possible for the car to derive 60% of its work done in the UK


EDIT: As sam says above

S'

There is a UK (mainland) registered 2020 car that I am interested in Belfast. My brother in law lives in Enniskillen.
If I buy the car and register that car in his name.
Put the car on NI plates incl paying tax.
Two weeks later I purchase the car from him.
Will I avoid paying Duty and VAT going this route?

Casati

Sam Russell wrote: »

No, it will be considered a non UK car if less than 60% of the car is sourced in the UK, which given the batteries are from Japan is likely.

Its all very confusing. In your earlier post you stated the following

'It never mattered before Jan 1st, all EU manufactured cars were duty free but since then it now matters'

So basically in the past, a car such as a Leaf only had to be assembled in the UK / EU to be considered a UK/ EU car but now the same car might be considered Japanese because of the 60% rule?

Are you certain that revenue won't take the country code on the VIN as proof or country of origin?

ELM327

S' wrote: »

There is a UK (mainland) registered 2020 car that I am interested in Belfast. My brother in law lives in Enniskillen.
If I buy the car and register that car in his name.
Put the car on NI plates incl paying tax.
Two weeks later I purchase the car from him.
Will I avoid paying Duty and VAT going this route?

If the car is registered in NI there should be no duty/vat. NI is within the customs union.

pale rider

S' wrote: »

There is a UK (mainland) registered 2020 car that I am interested in Belfast. My brother in law lives in Enniskillen.
If I buy the car and register that car in his name.
Put the car on NI plates incl paying tax.
Two weeks later I purchase the car from him.
Will I avoid paying Duty and VAT going this route?

My understanding is that the car should have a customs declaration or shipping confirmation from when it entered NI and ideally before 31.12.20

If buying such a car from a Dealer there should be no duty or vat if the car is over six months old or more than 6000 miles.

More information on your seller and if it’s on uk plates would be needed.

S'

ELM327 wrote: »

If the car is registered in NI there should be no duty/vat. NI is within the customs union.

Unfortunately the car is UK (mainland) registered. Would revenue have any issue with the steps I've outlined above?

ELM327

S' wrote: »

Unfortunately the car is UK (mainland) registered. Would revenue have any issue with the steps I've outlined above?

If a vehicle is being imported from Northern Ireland, no import duty will apply but you may be liable to pay:

• Vehicle Registration Tax (VRT)
• VAT at 21% (only in respect of new vehicles).

https://www.revenue.ie/en/customs-traders-and-agents/brexit/brexit-for-individuals/importing-a-vehicle-from-great-britain-gb-or-northern-ireland.aspx

S'

pale rider wrote: »

My understanding is that the car should have a customs declaration or shipping confirmation from when it entered NI and ideally before 31.12.20

If buying such a car from a Dealer there should be no duty or vat if the car is over six months old or more than 6000 miles.

More information on your seller and if it’s on uk plates would be needed.

Car is Agnew Volkswagen Belfast stock and is on UK plates. Car is over 6k Km and over 6months old

Sam Russell

Casati wrote: »

Its all very confusing. In your earlier post you stated the following

'It never mattered before Jan 1st, all EU manufactured cars were duty free but since then it now matters'

So basically in the past, a car such as a Leaf only had to be assembled in the UK / EU to be considered a UK/ EU car but now the same car might be considered Japanese because of the 60% rule?

Are you certain that revenue won't take the country code on the VIN as proof or country of origin?

I am not sure the Revenue are certain yet.

It did not matter prior to Jan 1st because it was all in the SM and so the goods could be moved freely from one country to another. There are certain exceptions - alcohol and tobacco obviously, and motor vehicle because of VRT, and having to register them in each member state - but that was not duty - merely registration tax. Denmark has a similar system.

If you imported a car from Japan either before Jan or after, it was subject to 10% duty plus VAT plus VRT. Now that applies to UK cars that are not 60% of UK origin.

That is my understanding.

ismat

S' wrote: »

Car is Agnew Volkswagen Belfast stock and is on UK plates. Car is over 6k Km and over 6months old

Unless the car was registered to a business or person in NI before 1/1/2021 you will pay vat and customs duty when you import it. Vat position will depend on whether classed as “new” or vat qualifying or used/ non vat qualifying. Customs duty payable if car was not made in uk (60% rule).

S'

ismat wrote: »

Unless the car was registered to a business or person in NI before 1/1/2021 you will pay vat and customs duty when you import it. Vat position will depend on whether classed as “new” or vat qualifying or used/ non vat qualifying. Customs duty payable if car was not made in uk (60% rule).

ELM327 wrote: »

If a vehicle is being imported from Northern Ireland, no import duty will apply but you may be liable to pay:

• Vehicle Registration Tax (VRT)
• VAT at 21% (only in respect of new vehicles).

https://www.revenue.ie/en/customs-traders-and-agents/brexit/brexit-for-individuals/importing-a-vehicle-from-great-britain-gb-or-northern-ireland.aspx

But does this not contradict the above extract from revenue?

Isambard

ismat wrote: »

Unless the car was registered to a business or person in NI before 1/1/2021 you will pay vat and customs duty when you import it. Vat position will depend on whether classed as “new” or vat qualifying or used/ non vat qualifying. Customs duty payable if car was not made in uk (60% rule).

Not quite true. As I see it, for a NI import to Ireland which entered N I in 2021, you would have to show that the relevant customs declaration was made GB to NI and that the car had been "properly imported" by a business or individual or a Car Dealer. It would then be considered an NI car and imported to Ireland tax free. (obviously under 6 months/ 6000 km still applies)

ismat

S' wrote: »

But does this not contradict the above extract from revenue?

You need to read the legislation/rules in their entirety as opposed to the small bit you have extracted

Sam Russell

Isambard wrote: »

Not quite true. As I see it, for a NI import to Ireland which entered N I in 2021, you would have to show that the relevant customs declaration was made GB to NI and that the car had been "properly imported" by a business or individual or a Car Dealer. It would then be considered an NI car and imported to Ireland tax free. (obviously under 6 months/ 6000 km still applies)

Even that is not clear because the NI authorities are not necessarily complying with the rules.

Say Jimmy imports a UK car into the six counties, and he claims it is exclusively for use in NI and will not be exported into Ireland, and proves it by registering it in NI, then can he not claim VAT and Duty do not apply? So when he exports it to Ireland, it counts as a UK sourced car. Now Revenue can work all that out, and so charge VAT and Duty.

It is not clear yet what will happen with NI cars.

ismat

Isambard wrote: »

Not quite true. As I see it, for a NI import to Ireland which entered N I in 2021, you would have to show that the relevant customs declaration was made GB to NI and that the car had been "properly imported" by a business or individual or a Car Dealer. It would then be considered an NI car and imported to Ireland tax free. (obviously under 6 months/ 6000 km still applies)

You are correct in this. Properly importing the vehicle from the uk to NI will involve paying vat on its value at that point. This will then entitle you to apply the NI rules when moving the car to ROI. There is a small saving in the differential in the vat rates possibly

ismat

Sam Russell wrote: »

Even that is not clear because the NI authorities are not necessarily complying with the rules.

Say Jimmy imports a UK car into the six counties, and he claims it is exclusively for use in NI and will not be exported into Ireland, and proves it by registering it in NI, then can he not claim VAT and Duty do not apply? So when he exports it to Ireland, it counts as a UK sourced car. Now Revenue can work all that out, and so charge VAT and Duty.

It is not clear yet what will happen with NI cars.

If you are not going to bring the car into ROI then you don’t need to do anything when you bring it from the uk to NI
tax issues only arise if you subsequently try and import this car into ROI

Isambard

ismat wrote: »

If you are not going to bring the car into ROI then you don’t need to do anything when you bring it from the uk to NI
tax issues only arise if you subsequently try and import this car into ROI

it's very muddled. If that car happened to be VAT qualifying,and the VAT had been reclaimed, it would attract VAT on import into the EU zone (ie NI)

It's such a dogs dinner, I'm sure the end result will be that NI will find it's been shafted.

steve2012

Obviously only buying a VAT qualifying vehicle from the UK seems to balance out the cost slightly of importing a car.

I'm right in saying though that you need to claim that your self (If the uk dealer won't for you).and obviously need the UK logbook registered in your name (which you only receive with a UK address).

Would it work if you got one of those An Post "Uk addresses".
You'll officially receive the uk log book and then you just need to fill it in and send it back informing change of address and export. Meaning you should receive the Uk VAT via check back in the post.

Alot of hassle but doing it this way might work?

Isambard

steve2012 wrote: »

Obviously only buying a VAT qualifying vehicle from the UK seems to balance out the cost slightly of importing a car.

I'm right in saying though that you need to claim that your self (If the uk dealer won't for you).and obviously need the UK logbook registered in your name (which you only receive with a UK address).

Would it work if you got one of those An Post "Uk addresses".
You'll officially receive the uk log book and then you just need to fill it in and send it back informing change of address and export. Meaning you should receive the Uk VAT via check back in the post.

Alot of hassle but doing it this way might work?

If you buy a UK qualifying car for export to Ireland, surely how it will work is you will only pay the net price.

User1998

DVLA won’t send a logbook to a parcel forwarding address such as Address Pal or Parcel Motel. Anyway, the car doesn’t have to be registered in your name to claim the uk vat back

steve2012

Isambard wrote: »

If you buy a UK qualifying car for export to Ireland, surely how it will work is you will only pay the net price.

That's what I thought.. The dealer in the Uk said iv to pay total including VAT. Then they started saying if I'm exporting they'll actually have to throw another £399 on the sales price. Chancers it sounds.

Was just going to register it with a UK address (was hoping to us address Pal ,but doesn't sound possible from what someone said) then claim the Vat back by informing I'm exporting and return the section of logbook they need

ismat

steve2012 wrote: »

That's what I thought.. The dealer in the Uk said iv to pay total including VAT. Then they started saying if I'm exporting they'll actually have to throw another £399 on the sales price. Chancers it sounds.

Was just going to register it with a UK address (was hoping to us address Pal ,but doesn't sound possible from what someone said) then claim the Vat back by informing I'm exporting and return the section of logbook they need

I think if you do this you will lose the ability to reclaim the uk vat. You will still have to pay Irish vat on the car.

Sam Russell

You get the UK VAT back by not paying it in the first place.

Example:

UK car (VAT qualifying) costs GB£12,000. The car is purchased by Sean, an Irish resident, and exported directly to Ireland. Because it is exported and VAT qualifying, the seller only charges the VAT exclusive price which is GB£10,000.

Car is shipped to Ireland, and declared to customs and VAT is paid. Invoice price is GB£10,000 plus shipping (GB£200 say) = € 11,500. VAT = €14,145. I assume the car is UK RoO. If it is not UK RoO, then add €1,400 (approx).

Last year it would have been €13,800 before VRT.


Whether that is worth it, depends on the car and the market price.

Isambard

steve2012 wrote: »

That's what I thought.. The dealer in the Uk said iv to pay total including VAT. Then they started saying if I'm exporting they'll actually have to throw another £399 on the sales price. Chancers it sounds.

Was just going to register it with a UK address (was hoping to us address Pal ,but doesn't sound possible from what someone said) then claim the Vat back by informing I'm exporting and return the section of logbook they need

easier for them no doubt. I can understand, perhaps, a Dealer requesting you to pay the VAT up front and refund it later because they have accounted for it when buying the car and it would impact their cashflow if they had to wait for the refund themselves. But surely it's the seller who will be getting a refund and an Irish buyer should not be paying.

machu

Sam Russell wrote: »

You get the UK VAT back by not paying it in the first place.

Example:

UK car (VAT qualifying) costs GB£12,000. The car is purchased by Sean, an Irish resident, and exported directly to Ireland. Because it is exported and VAT qualifying, the seller only charges the VAT exclusive price which is GB£10,000.

Car is shipped to Ireland, and declared to customs and VAT is paid. Invoice price is GB£10,000 plus shipping (GB£200 say) = € 11,500. VAT = €14,145. I assume the car is UK RoO. If it is not UK RoO, then add €1,400 (approx).

Last year it would have been €13,800 before VRT.


Whether that is worth it, depends on the car and the market price.

That would make it only €345 more expensive than last year assuming it qualifies for the 60% English parts rule. Am I right in this if so purchasing a vat qualifying car would not make it a lot more expensive than it was previously.

Casati

ismat wrote: »

You are correct in this. Properly importing the vehicle from the uk to NI will involve paying vat on its value at that point. This will then entitle you to apply the NI rules when moving the car to ROI. There is a small saving in the differential in the vat rates possibly

Hasn’t U.K. made Vat from imports from GB to NÍ to be 0% rated? As such no vat paid = properly imported from England to N.I

Sam Russell

machu wrote: »

That would make it only €345 more expensive than last year assuming it qualifies for the 60% English parts rule. Am I right in this if so purchasing a vat qualifying car would not make it a lot more expensive than it was previously.

The example was for a GB£10,000 car. It is likely that such a car would be multiples of that price as it would be likely a high end car or ex rental.

The sum is basically the difference between the VAT rates - assuming that the seller can sell ex VAT and the car is UK qualifying RoO. That is perhaps quite restrictive.

Also, the VRT is another hurdle, plus NOX.

I would wait until it is routine and the rules are well known. Importing bangers is dead.

lausp

Sam Russell wrote: »

You get the UK VAT back by not paying it in the first place.

Example:

UK car (VAT qualifying) costs GB£12,000. The car is purchased by Sean, an Irish resident, and exported directly to Ireland. Because it is exported and VAT qualifying, the seller only charges the VAT exclusive price which is GB£10,000.

Car is shipped to Ireland, and declared to customs and VAT is paid. Invoice price is GB£10,000 plus shipping (GB£200 say) = € 11,500. VAT = €14,145. I assume the car is UK RoO. If it is not UK RoO, then add €1,400 (approx).

Last year it would have been €13,800 before VRT.


Whether that is worth it, depends on the car and the market price.

Haven't you forgotten 10% duty?

Car99

Sam Russell wrote: »

The example was for a GB£10,000 car. It is likely that such a car would be multiples of that price as it would be likely a high end car or ex rental.

The sum is basically the difference between the VAT rates - assuming that the seller can sell ex VAT and the car is UK qualifying RoO. That is perhaps quite restrictive.

Also, the VRT is another hurdle, plus NOX.

I would wait until it is routine and the rules are well known. Importing bangers is dead.

Importing bangers from the UK is dead

Isambard

lausp wrote: »

Haven't you forgotten 10% duty?

not applicable if GB built.

Isambard

Casati wrote: »

Hasn’t U.K. made Vat from imports from GB to NÍ to be 0% rated? As such no vat paid = properly imported from England to N.I

I think they re-instated the margin scheme. For a dealer, VAT payable on profit on sale. afaik, Everyone else, VAT applies on import into the EU area (NI)

Sam Russell

lausp wrote: »

Haven't you forgotten 10% duty?

No, that is the €1,400 in the calculation for cars that fail the RoO (Rules of Origin).

By the way, the situation re NI cars imported from GB after the 1st of Jan is not clear as we do not yet know what actions NI will take re VAT and Duty. However, cars are individually tracked by their reg plate, so Revenue can tackle any action taken or ignored by the NI authorities and make retrospective adjustments. So beware.

If anyone here is serious about bringing a car in from NI call into your local VRT office and they will tell you what you need.

S'

Sam Russell wrote: »

No, that is the €1,400 in the calculation for cars that fail the RoO (Rules of Origin).

By the way, the situation re NI cars imported from GB after the 1st of Jan is not clear as we do not yet know what actions NI will take re VAT and Duty. However, cars are individually tracked by their reg plate, so Revenue can tackle any action taken or ignored by the NI authorities and make retrospective adjustments. So beware.

Does a NI car need to be actually registered before 1st Jan?
If the car was sitting on an NI dealer forecourt since September 2020 but not registered in NI, would the VRT office accept evidence such as a ferry ticket or similar documentation?

Sam Russell

S' wrote: »

Does a NI car need to be actually registered before 1st Jan?
If the car was sitting on an NI dealer forecourt since September 2020 but not registered in NI, would the VRT office accept evidence such as a ferry ticket or similar documentation?

Ask the VRT people rather than a random person on the internet. I doubt the VRT people would know the answer to that.

mgn

S' wrote: »

Does a NI car need to be actually registered before 1st Jan?
If the car was sitting on an NI dealer forecourt since September 2020 but not registered in NI, would the VRT office accept evidence such as a ferry ticket or similar documentation?

Any car imported into the ROI or NI before Ist of Jan are exempt for VAT, the don't have to be registered in NI to sell to the south as long as the have proof that the car was in the country before Jan 1st. A transport invoice from the dealer should be proof enough.

Its much simpler for the ROI because the dealers would have had a VRT inspection done on all imports before Jan 1st and then pay the VRT owed on them when the sell them, this why we seen a spike in imports last month when in fact there were very few, it was just the ones that were here already and the VRT paid on them when sold.

User1998

S' wrote: »

Does a NI car need to be actually registered before 1st Jan?
If the car was sitting on an NI dealer forecourt since September 2020 but not registered in NI, would the VRT office accept evidence such as a ferry ticket or similar documentation?

Where are people getting this idea that the car needs to be registered in NI?

S'

S' wrote: »

Does a NI car need to be actually registered before 1st Jan?
If the car was sitting on an NI dealer forecourt since September 2020 but not registered in NI, would the VRT office accept evidence such as a ferry ticket or similar documentation?

Ferry ticket yes and a letter from the dealer saying the car was in his premises since sep 2020.

Car99

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Ferry ticket yes and a letter from the dealer saying the car was in his premises since sep 2020.

With regards to cars that came in on a car transport truck from the UK to Ireland pre jan 1 2021 was the reg of every car on the truck logged with the ferry company or was it just a load of cargo same as any other truck?

steve2012

Anyone know how an individual can get an eori number when importing