Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

lawrencesummers

We are very unlucky to be playing England last in this years fixtures, their hibernating Sarries players are getting up to match levels in this Italian game and by the time they come to Dublin they will be back to their best and we could be in a worse position injury wise.

The stars aligned last week for the Scots, no home support, core of the English team way off the pace.

Must love hardship

Delighted Cooney has been called up. Could even start v Italy or Scotland if Murray is ruled out for a few weeks.

I think Rog made a comment on his depth chart of 9 and 10's on OTB that he thought its either Murray or cooney in the squad as both play very similar games. His partnership with Willy Burns at club level helps too.

With H byrne again his partnership with G-Park helps with getting selected. Also he may have already been in around the squad lately??

Connacht fans will obviously be upset that Blade Carty and Marmion were all not called up. Same could be said about Mcgrath.

Who knows a bad performance by the half backs tomorrow might see Cooney and H byrne kept around regardless with a free week next week.

phily2002

Must love hardship wrote: »

Delighted Cooney has been called up. Could even start v Italy or Scotland if Murray is ruled out for a few weeks.

I think Rog made a comment on his depth chart of 9 and 10's on OTB that he thought its either Murray or cooney in the squad as both play very similar games. His partnership with Willy Burns at club level helps too.

With H byrne again his partnership with G-Park helps with getting selected. Also he may have already been in around the squad lately??

Connacht fans will obviously be upset that Blade Carty and Marmion were all not called up. Same could be said about Mcgrath.

Who knows a bad performance by the half backs tomorrow might see Cooney and H byrne kept around regardless with a free week next week.

I wouldn't have thought Cooney and Murray are similar at all. Be great to see him get game time but don't think it'll happen.
Be nice to see Casey get on tomorrow as well, no bigger test than against Dupont.

Must love hardship

phily2002 wrote: »

I wouldn't have thought Cooney and Murray are similar at all. Be great to see him get game time but don't think it'll happen.
Be nice to see Casey get on tomorrow as well, no bigger test than against Dupont.

Sorry he actually said they were a similar age profile and for him its a straight shoot out between them for the squad.
He had mcgrath 2nd and then the connacht lads 3 and 4. With Craig casey as his next generation player. Not much love for JGP

theVersatile

I'd be very disappointed if Cooney started v Italy ahead of JGP or Casey.

prawnsambo

theVersatile wrote: »

I'd be very disappointed if Cooney started v Italy ahead of JGP or Casey.

That would only happen if either or both ended up injured before the match. However both being called up may mean that there is an injury doubt in both positions.

nerd69

If we can get a casey/ h byrne combo at some pointaby the end of the italy game it'd be class

OneLungDavy

Can we give the Cooney/H Byrne stuff a rest until they are actually named in a squad.

Must love hardship

Must love hardship wrote: »

Cooney and h byrne involved in the captains run and will be with the squad tomorrow.

Ross Byrne tomorrow:

Former Former Former

prawnsambo wrote: »

That would only happen if either or both ended up injured before the match. However both being called up may mean that there is an injury doubt in both positions.

I'd say it's more of a precaution in case someone pulls a hamstring in the warm up.

Benny Cake

Natterjack from Kerry wrote: »

As explained, we had 4 eggs in the basket.

You know what they say, an egg in a basket is worth 2 in a bush, but you can't make him drink.

Bazzo

Just a by the by but I don't think any 10's goal kicking should be a barrier to selection if any of Ringrose, Murray or Cooney are going to be in the team.

The Irish obsession with the 10 having to kick is ridiculous. They should be encouraging as many players as possible to keep up their kicking skills and giving it to whoever's best. How many games have come down to missed clutch kicks??

Bazzo

Bazzo wrote: »

Just a by the by but I don't think any 10's goal kicking should be a barrier to selection if any of Ringrose, Murray or Cooney are going to be in the team.

Cooney fair enough but kicking averages over a season matter and neither Ringrose or Murray have those.

If they were that good they'd be kicking continually at a provincial level.

Must love hardship

Bazzo wrote: »

Just a by the by but I don't think any 10's goal kicking should be a barrier to selection if any of Ringrose, Murray or Cooney are going to be in the team.

The Irish obsession with the 10 having to kick is ridiculous. They should be encouraging as many players as possible to keep up their kicking skills and giving it to whoever's best. How many games have come down to missed clutch kicks??

Id agree if the person stepping in to take the kick is a regular goal kicker. While Ringrose and Murray have deputised when the occasion caused for it neither kick game in game out for club or country.

Different situation with Cooney obviously.

Ringrose may well be a better kicker than Burns.. but is tomorrow the time to find that out??

stephen_n

thomond2006 wrote: »

I mean, they as may well bring Hayes back.

Right, Buer?

But Sexton was actually good at one stage.

nerd69

Bazzo wrote: »

Just a by the by but I don't think any 10's goal kicking should be a barrier to selection if any of Ringrose, Murray or Cooney are going to be in the team.

The Irish obsession with the 10 having to kick is ridiculous. They should be encouraging as many players as possible to keep up their kicking skills and giving it to whoever's best. How many games have come down to missed clutch kicks??

Your right to an extent but what your saying is an oversimplification. Iv often thought in an ideal world a 15 would be your kicker they tend to have big boots and it would leave the 9,10 to perfect analysing a game during the hours they spend kicking but it's a waste of time talking about it at an international level that needs to be done at school/club/provincial level. As it stands we have one 9 that consistently kicks you can't just not kick at provincial level and then have a crack at international level.points are to important. Therefor we have to look at our 10s ability to kick you cannot dismiss it

nerd69

stephen_n wrote: »

But Sexton was actually good at one stage.

If hayes was ever as static as sexton he'd have been stuck in ail

Bazzo

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Cooney fair enough but kicking averages over a season matter and neither Ringrose or Murray have those.

If they were that good they'd be kicking continually at a provincial level.

Jack Carty was goal kicking ahead of Cooney at Connacht!(and still is ahead of Tom Daly)

When I say "Irish obsession" I include the provinces. The kicking is almost always the duty of the 10 and there's not a single doubt in my mind that the 10 is not always the best kicker.

Ringrose has a particularly sweet strike of the ball, never seen him miss from admittedly limited showing but a lot of them were tough kicks. And I believe his schools record was fairly immaculate too?

Bazzo

Bazzo wrote: »

Jack Carty was goal kicking ahead of Cooney at Connacht!(and still is ahead of Tom Daly)

When I say "Irish obsession" I include the provinces. The kicking is almost always the duty of the 10 and there's not a single doubt in my mind that the 10 is not always the best kicker.

Ringrose has a particularly sweet strike of the ball, never seen him miss from admittedly limited showing but a lot of them were tough kicks. And I believe his schools record was fairly immaculate too?

Cooney hasn't played at Connacht for years and kicking coaches along with match stats will ultimately decide who kicks the points.

I have no doubt in my mind that if there were Leigh Halfpenny's floating around the provinces they would be fully utilised. I suspect in reality that the highest percentage kickers are kicking for each team and the national team.

Bazzo

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Cooney hasn't played at Connacht for years and kicking coaches along with match stats will ultimately decide who kicks the points.

I have no doubt in my mind that if there were Leigh Halfpenny's floating around the provinces they would be fully utilised. I suspect in reality that the highest percentage kickers are kicking for each team and the national team.

So just by crazy coincidence the best kicker is the 10 almost all of the time? Agree to disagree I guess.

prawnsambo

Bazzo wrote: »

So just by crazy coincidence the best kicker is the 10 almost all of the time? Agree to disagree I guess.

I would have thought that they'd be the ones most likely to train at it on a daily basis.

Lost Ormond

Deleted User wrote: »

Cooney hasn't played at Connacht for years and kicking coaches along with match stats will ultimately decide who kicks the points.

I have no doubt in my mind that if there were Leigh Halfpenny's floating around the provinces they would be fully utilised. I suspect in reality that the highest percentage kickers are kicking for each team and the national team.

Possibly are but there is countless examples of players who were excellent place kickers at age grade and playing club rugby who just never kick in the pro game. Like why Ringrose doesnt in some games baffles me. Same with plenty of players in other provinces even with good place kickers on pitch already. we shouldnt have guys who can place kick lose that ability by not doing it enough if ever in games

Bazzo

prawnsambo wrote: »

I would have thought that they'd be the ones most likely to train at it on a daily basis.

That's probably true, but creates a self-fulfilling prophecy. I refer back to my OP

Bazzo wrote: »

They should be encouraging as many players as possible to keep up their kicking skills and giving it to whoever's best.

thomond2006

It's definitely in Ringrose's interests to place kick. I'm sure it did Fergus McFadden no harm in contract renewal time to be a goalkicking option.

dregin

thomond2006 wrote: »

It's definitely in Ringrose's interests to place kick. I'm sure it did Fergus McFadden no harm in contract renewal time to be a goalkicking option.

No harm to Ferg, but Ringrose is a far more important option for both Leinster and Ireland. I don't think he needs kicking to add much to his case for a decent wage.

jacothelad

Originally Posted by Must love hardship
5 project players start for ireland. A 1/3 of the team.

Herring, Stander, Park, Burns and Lowe.

An honest question is that the highest number to start a 6 nations game?

7 starters came through the Leinster system.
1 through munster ,1 through the Connacht system and 1 through Ulster.

Is nusofora actually doing a decent job?

Meanwhile we have 2019 u20 grandslam winners at home on the couch apart from Casey.

bayern wrote: »

Herring not a project player.

Neither is Burns....

Lost Ormond

jacothelad wrote: »

Originally Posted by Must love hardship
5 project players start for ireland. A 1/3 of the team.

Herring, Stander, Park, Burns and Lowe.

An honest question is that the highest number to start a 6 nations game?

7 starters came through the Leinster system.
1 through munster ,1 through the Connacht system and 1 through Ulster.

Is nusofora actually doing a decent job?

Meanwhile we have 2019 u20 grandslam winners at home on the couch apart from Casey.




Neither is Burns....

Leinster with their playing numbers, schools, academy should probably always have the most players in any irish set up. Munster and Ulster are punching below what they should be producing while Connacht are about 1.

The 2019 u20 grand slammers are mainly at home but to be fair theyve been affected a lot by covid. If not entirely ready for week in week out pro rugby straight out of 20s which is a good amount most years they havent had a lot of rugby due to covid messing up the last 2 seasons. What can you do about that?

On Burns. Because of some idiots in media. some think if not born on island of ireland they immediately go that theyre a project. idiots....

Louis Friend

jacothelad wrote: »

Originally Posted by Must love hardship
5 project players start for ireland. A 1/3 of the team.

Herring, Stander, Park, Burns and Lowe.

An honest question is that the highest number to start a 6 nations game?

7 starters came through the Leinster system.
1 through munster ,1 through the Connacht system and 1 through Ulster.

Is nusofora actually doing a decent job?

Meanwhile we have 2019 u20 grandslam winners at home on the couch apart from Casey.




Neither is Burns....

They’re imports though. It’s disappointing to see them representing 1/3 of the team.

Must love hardship

jacothelad wrote: »

Originally Posted by Must love hardship
5 project players start for ireland. A 1/3 of the team.

Herring, Stander, Park, Burns and Lowe.

An honest question is that the highest number to start a 6 nations game?

7 starters came through the Leinster system.
1 through munster ,1 through the Connacht system and 1 through Ulster.

Is nusofora actually doing a decent job?

Meanwhile we have 2019 u20 grandslam winners at home on the couch apart from Casey.




Neither is Burns....

In my mind a Project players is the IRFU term for uncapped overseas players, signed by provinces with the long term goal of making them Irish international.

Both Herring and burns have Irish grandparents but are overseas players signed by ulster with the long term goal of making them Irish internationals so they fit the term project player.


France have only 3 overseas players in the 6 nations squad. . England have only 2 born overseas.

Lost Ormond

Lost Ormond wrote: »

Possibly are but there is countless examples of players who were excellent place kickers at age grade and playing club rugby who just never kick in the pro game. Like why Ringrose doesnt in some games baffles me. Same with plenty of players in other provinces even with good place kickers on pitch already. we shouldnt have guys who can place kick lose that ability by not doing it enough if ever in games

I have absolutely no doubt that the reason Ringrose doesn't continue to kick is because other players spend more of their training time practicing kicking to the point of consistent accuracy and he doesn't want the various muscle strains that come with that to impact his game.

Taking an extra 50 kicks a week isn't cost free on the body.