Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

ersatz

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121938939#Comment_121938939

I always thought that England game was our biggest banana skin of the tournament. France without Dupont coming off a massive WC failure was always ours to win but England coming off a few crappy years and after a standout performance in the WC (granted an easy route but a 1 point loss to the champs in a semi is fantastic) with a huge amount to prove in Twickenham was always going to be a tall order no matter what the bookies were saying. I said as much on here. Anyone who thinks England are ever a gimme for us in London is deluded.

El Vino

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121942748#Comment_121942748

couldn't agree more, it was a massive test and once again at the very highest level we were found a little short.

Nigzcurran

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121942979#Comment_121942979

We played at the highest level and won the championship. How were we a little short? Absolute bananas stuff altogether!!

Former Former Former

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121942979#Comment_121942979

England aren’t the very highest level though, they lost against Scotland and barely squeaked past Wales and Italy. We are a significantly better team than them.

We had an off day and plenty of bad luck, and still only lost to the last kick of the game. It happens.

We were still the best team in the tournament by quite a distance.

El Vino

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121943176#Comment_121943176

I think they have a pretty elite pack, which when on form is a match for anyone in the world as they showed against South Africa, certainly more than a match for us that day as ever match stat bears out. Check out meters made, dominant tackles, defenders beaten. We were 2nd best in every facet of the game. I was clearly talking about the Grand Slam when I said we came up short.

ersatz

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121943515#Comment_121943515

Yeah, England's pack were phenomenal and for once their passes were sticking. I think a lot clicked for them against us and they backed it up against France. Serious team going forward, they'll be better next year. I imagine we will be better too having had more time for Crowley to get up to speed and a big series in SA + Nov to build to.

Clo-Clo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121943176#Comment_121943176

The two week break from the Scotland to Ireland game was huge for England, they had nothing to lose and everything to gain from that game

Lose and everyone would have said it was a new team, new coach's, beaten by "best in World" etc etc

Win and suddenly it was a 6 nations that it doesn't matter what happens they beat the Irish in Twickers. As Irish we should be well aware of that, we had entire 6 nations campaigns which was shocking yet we beat the English and it was great.

Plus in case anyone hasn't noticed, England do have decent players.

50HX

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121940540#Comment_121940540

And got a rwc semi final again as bad and all as they were....similar to beating us up in Twickenham a few weeks ago....as bad and all as they were

Dubinusa

England will be a good side. Borthwick is now in situ for a year. They'll be better as time goes by.

serfboard

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121943626#Comment_121943626

The last 6N match between England and France was a cracker. Although there was nothing to play for, both teams were up for it and played their best rugby. Both England and France improved as the tournament went on. England were hugely motivated against both us and France.

If any country wants to criticise their own team it should be the French. They lost out on a semi-final when the World Cup was being played in their own country. In the 6N they were well beaten by us, were lucky to beat Scotland, were nearly beaten by Italy, beat a bad Welsh team and just made it over the line against England.

Downlinz

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121923517#Comment_121923517

The format is changing for the next RWC with extra pools to accommodate the higher number of teams so it'll be 6 first seeds instead of 4 and considering even teams finishing 3rd in their pool can qualify for the round of 16 it'll really reduce the importance of getting a high seed.

Clo-Clo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121944021#Comment_121944021

England got to a semi in the WC, can't really claim they haven't been a good side

Former Former Former

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121947386#Comment_121947386

They fell over the line against both Fiji and Samoa, they gave SA a very good rattle in the semi but they did not perform well in the RWC, and they didn’t perform in the 6N. They haven’t been a good side.

We are much better than them.

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121947713#Comment_121947713

Yeah this is the inherent vagaries of a world cup.

I find out QF hodoo as annoying as anyone, but I couldn't care less about the final outcome - we were a much better team than England. They beat us with a last minute drop goal in their best performance in some years at home. It happens.

nerd69

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121947848#Comment_121947848

Every team that beats us seems to gave their best performance in years according to us

Former Former Former

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121948263#Comment_121948263

Interesting use of "every team" there. We've lost to two teams in the last two years.

Clo-Clo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121948263#Comment_121948263

Two teams

New Zealand - they will admit it was their best performance in year

England - everyone in the media, Irish and English have said it was best performance since the game v NZ many years ago

Before that it was the opening game of the series in NZ? wasn't it?, when I don't think it was NZ best performance in years

sydthebeat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121948263#Comment_121948263

of course they did.

teams raised their game to play the all black side of 2011-2015, because they were considered the best in the world at the time. Look at the way we celebrated the 2015 chicago win (even with huge caveates on the AB side)

Look at the way we celebrated beating england in 2017 six nations, stopping their back to back grand slams and ending their world record run of victories.

we're now in that position where teams will raise their game against us, as we've been considered one of the best teams in the world for the last 2 years. Its a great position to be in, though the defeats are usually met with hysterical hyperbole from idiots.

thats sport !

aloooof

I posted this in the thread after the England game, and I stand by it tbh:

Our last 2 defeats were:

a 1 point loss that required England's best performance since the RWC SF 2019, and

a 4 point loss that required NZ's best performance in the previous 2 years

We've lost 4 games in our last 33 matches. (The only one that wasn't a 1-score game was in Eden Park where NZ have never lost a game in the pro era).

I think it's fair to say we saw a drop in performance since last year, but equally we had to replace our 2 most creative players. We're a very, very good team at the moment.

El Vino

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121948518#Comment_121948518

If you say anything that could be interpreted as mild criticism of the team in the wake of a defeat it is immediately jumped on, you are bananas or an idiot. I recognise we were the best team in the tournament over the entirety of it, would I be confident of beating this England, French, SA or NZ team especially if they kept 15 on the pitch in a one off game of consequence, probably not.

Former Former Former

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121949520#Comment_121949520

In the build-up to the France vs Ireland game this year, it was literally being billed as the championship decider, just in the first week of the tournament, and we hammered them - in Paris - and it did indeed turn out to the decider. If you want to sit there and p*ss all over that because they had a man sent off, then grand.

Do Ireland then get any credit for only losing by a single point against England when we got a yellow card and they did not, or we ended up with our scrum-half on the wing? No, thought not.

Some people don't want to give credit to this team because they don't like Farrell and they don't like the IRFU. That's all this is, dress it up however you want.

aloooof

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121949575#Comment_121949575

If you want to sit there and p*ss all over that because they had a man sent off, then grand.

Another point on this is that discipline, to a large extent, is in your control. Our record for avoiding cards over the last 2-3 years under Farrell has been exceptional.

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121949520#Comment_121949520

would I be confident of beating this England, French, SA or NZ team especially if they kept 15 on the pitch in a one off game of consequence, probably not.

Why not? Ireland have won the last three against SA and the last 4 of 6, including one in a neutral location and one in South Africa.

Ireland have won 4 of the last 5 against England

Ireland have won 6 of the last 9 against NZ

Ireland have won 5 of the last 8 against France.

We are not guaranteed to win any game, but we have a winning record of the last while against basically everyone.

aloooof

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121949716#Comment_121949716

Ireland have won 6 of the last 9 against NZ

More than any other, that stat jumps out a mile.

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121950017#Comment_121950017

Most probably cause it's wrong! Should have said 5 of 9

Still though. Dream stuff for anyone who followed irish rugby before 2015 or whatever

nerd69

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121950181#Comment_121950181

There was times when a single win seemed impossible

aloooof

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121950259#Comment_121950259

Indeed, there were times when either a gut-wrenching narrow loss or a hammering seemed inevitable…

Stanley 1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121943176#Comment_121943176

Not by a distance, France with DuPont in full flow is a toss of a coin and England outmuscled us and we ain't got any bigger players not in plain sight, again toss of a coin game.

Nigzcurran

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121952780#Comment_121952780

Trc second account? 😄

jacothelad

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121948567#Comment_121948567

I have wondered for a while if the departure of Lancaster and the loss of his influence on the skills and thought processes of Leinster players has a carry-over to how they perform for Ireland. It seems to be true that what is coached in to players loses potency over time.

I have been observing rugby in Ireland since the mid 1950s. It always makes me chuckle when a player now is anointed as the best ever Irish player in his position. Recency factor at play. We'll never know because it doesn't matter and it has no value. JGP has been crowned by someone on here as the best ever………..well, he might be but I have seen quite a few great 9s playing in green. Johnny Moloney, Colin Patterson, Roger Young for example were all great players in the amateur days. With full-time training and coaching they would have been even better. I don't think there would be much difference from greats of yesteryear and current players. Sexton was a great player but so were guys like Jack Kyle, Tony ward, Ollie Campbell and they usually had to play with not so great teammates around them.

The one thing I have garnered from almost 70 years of playing and other involvement in the game is that historically, Ireland teams that blossom and do well tend to hit the buffers rather than declining slowly. Hopefully, and it looks like it, that our current set-up leads to positive evolution. Long may it continue.

The big dilemma really is how to make best use of the current huge numbers of young players - mostly from Leinster - while being fair to them and Leinster. I'd rather someone who doesn't make the Leinster Academy is made welcome elsewhere in Ireland rather than in England or is lost to the game. Leinster can't possibly be expected to accommodate all the riches that are flowing at the moment. It's a tricky situation…..

Happy Easter