Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

phog

From The Examiner

David Humphreys talks about an over reliance on Private Schools and the possibility of identifying talent in other sports that could be used as a pathway for developing players for our teams.

It will be interesting to see more details on what he's hoping to achieve.

His successor, the former Ulster and Ireland fly-half who joined the IRFU three months ago from his role as director of performance operations at the England And Wales Cricket Board, wants to move away from what he sees as an over-reliance on Irish private schools supplying the bulk of rugby talent to the professional game.

In order to give Ireland coaches the best possible opportunity to field the strongest teams possible, Humphreys is seeking to improve a pathway system that identifies athletes in other codes now that the concept of project players from overseas becoming Irish Qualified (IQ) has effectively run dry through changes in World Rugby’s residency criteria.

Hey_Ho_Lets_Go_3

Meh.

Far easier said than done.

OldRio

'Commonwealth Games'? Have a serious word with yourself.

'Friendlies'? What?

Brief_Lives

https://x.com/SSRugby/status/1801177693909578054?t=EIQiKogC7rZkQLmppkd8uw&s=19

I saw the full interview somewhere, i'll try and find it and put it up here.

Ben Bailey

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122257552#Comment_122257552

Humps is correct.

Overdependance on private schools is not the problem, it's the lack of other sources that limits the growth of playing numbers generally. The professional game here, with 4 clubs, may be able to survive with players from traditional routes but the game generally will never expand beyond it's narrow base until it attracts players who currently choose other codes.

Paul Smeenus

Interesting shot across the bows.

"Where you have a player who we believe could be performing out here [for Ireland], sitting in third, fourth or fifth in the province and not getting the game-time that they need to develop, that’s sending a strong message about that player’s ambition to Andy Farrell. We want players who are competitive, who are going to give it everything they have to play for Ireland. If they choose not to do that for whatever reason, so be it.”

Former Former Former

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122258256#Comment_122258256

Ooof, spicy.

I'd love to know if he's got someone specific in mind there.

Hey_Ho_Lets_Go_3

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122258256#Comment_122258256

Nucifora said similar recently.

I'm sure the IRFU have tried to use that line many times with Leinster players and not to much effect.

sydthebeat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122258256#Comment_122258256

its a very fair point.

However, with Deegan being the obvious example (behind conan and doris at 8 for Leinster) Farrell has STILL gone on to cap players who have been seen as 3rd choice for their province, ahead of other players who were closer to starting for their province.

maybe theres a sea change coming, im not sure though.

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122258361#Comment_122258361

The problem is that Nucifora/Humphreys don't select the Irish squad so realistically what can they actually do about it.

Former Former Former

It's hard to see how this is Humphreys' call though? In a million years, he's not going to forbid Farrell from picking players who haven't agreed to switch provinces.

Deegan always gets cited here but he got 20 minutes off the bench against Fiji in 2022 and I don't think he's been in so much as a training squad since then. So maybe he is in fact evidence that Farrell doesn't want to pick guys who aren't playing regularly. Like, he capped provincial third-choice Crowley in the same game, and look at how that went.

aloooof

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122258429#Comment_122258429

People keep claiming Crowley was provincial 3rd choice when the reality is we can't know for sure because of 1) the new coaching ticket 2) the EI tour and 3) injuries.

Former Former Former

hang on til I get my barge pole.

aloooof

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122258534#Comment_122258534

It's true tho….

You're essentially taking 2 games prior to the EI tour as evidence of him being 3rd choice when it's pretty obvious that losing 9 guys for ~3 games would've had an influence on that selection.

We simply don't know.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122258619#Comment_122258619

Or, of course, the entire season prior to that.

aloooof

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122258638#Comment_122258638

Where Munster had a different head-coach picking the team? That entire season?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122258642#Comment_122258642

I don't know why you seem to get so much enjoyment out of having literally the same arguments over and over again.

aloooof

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122258659#Comment_122258659

Look, if you want to argue that JVG seeing Crowley as 3rd choice in the 2021/22 season means Rowntree also saw Crowley as 3rd choice in the following season, you can…

I'm just pointing out it's not rooted in logic.

Clo-Clo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122258256#Comment_122258256

Not really, he has no say over who Farrell picks.

Clo-Clo

Interesting thought, has Rassie ever beaten an Ireland or Leinster side as a coach?

Might be why he is so hung up on Ireland even with a WC in his back pocket, two actually

aloooof

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122258700#Comment_122258700

Beat Leinster in Thomond in his 1 season with Munster.

Less certain about Ireland; I think they may have only played twice tho (RWC group, and AI?), even tho he's been there so comparatively long, what with Covid.

pickarooney

BOOOORING.

Give it a rest.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122258672#Comment_122258672

*le sigh * -

There is logic - Rowntree was still a significant part of that coaching ticket. He obviously had some input (you don't need to go posting what I already know you're going to post about how sometimes we've seen coaches change their views when the get the head coaching job).

Coming into that season Crowley had played 15 times total for Munster, 5 starts, for 506 mins. Ben Healy, who was roughly 6 months older than him, had played 3x as many games, more than 3.5x as many starts and more than 3.3x as many minutes as him. Carbery - who had spent considerable time injured over the previous couple of seasons had also racked up almost 3x as many minutes and more than 3x as many starts.

There is the fact that Healy started the two pre-season friendlies and the opening game of the URC.

But - the most significant point of logic supporting it is the very fact that if Munster viewed Crowley ahead of Healy in early September 2022 then I think it would have been Ben Healy going on the EI tour (as apparently Ireland originally wanted). Munster supposedly pushed back on Healy travelling because they needed him for those early season URC games while Carbery was still coming back from injury.

aloooof

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122258722#Comment_122258722

the most significant point of logic supporting it is the very fact that if Munster viewed Crowley ahead of Healy in early September 2022 then I think it would have been Ben Healy going on the EI tour (as apparently Ireland originally wanted). Munster supposedly pushed back on Healy travelling because they needed him for those early season URC games while Carbery was still coming back from injury.

That's not fact; it's conjecture.

Sigh indeed.

Paul Smeenus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122258429#Comment_122258429

Yeah, I know I'm a bit repetitive about this, but Deegan has been leapfrogged into Irish squads by Timoney, amongst others.

The idea that it would be easier to edge your way into being a starting Ireland backrow player by becoming first choice back row at Leinster than being in the squad, being on the bench and impressing on what starts you do get is fairly wide of the mark, I'd say.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122258745#Comment_122258745

It was widely discussed on podcasts at the time, and was largely reported that the whole tour itself was for guys who weren't first choice at their provinces.

You, of course, are very well aware of this, but are choosing to ignore it because it doesn't suit your narrative here.

Paul Smeenus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122258697#Comment_122258697

I'd say Farrell agrees with him, otherwise he wouldn't be saying this in public.

aloooof

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122258761#Comment_122258761

whole tour itself was for guys who weren't first choice at their provinces.

I'm not ignoring it. You're moving the goalposts. I agree entirely that it clearly wasn't for first choice. That wasn't what was being discussed and doesn't contradict anything I've said.

The whole "it doesn't suit your narrative" thing seems a bit rich when you're not giving much mass to the fact that Munster had a completely different head coach from one season to the next….

Clo-Clo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122258767#Comment_122258767

You think Farrell is micromanaging what Humphries says?

Farrell as we have seen has his own selection criteria which can go against the provinces

After a hugely successful period for Nucifora in the mens game I think Humphries has bigger fish to fry in his job than trying to get stuck into the middle of a pointless argument which will never end well

Clo-Clo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122258761#Comment_122258761

Crowley was 3rd choice at best, even after the EI tour he came back and wasn't playing many games at 10, Joey was starting and then when he fell out of favour it was the ginger Scot

The narritive pushed by some is the one of the main reasons Munster had poor form at the start of the season was due to the EI tour which is nonsense to me, it was the integration of a new coaching team and game plan. Similar to the results seen when Joe took over at Leinster

If Crowley wasn't on the EI tour at best he might have got on the bench as a backup centre, Joey and ginger Scot would have ben playing 10 and 10 off the bench