Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

Podge_irl

A schools player is almost always going to be ahead of a club player on the development front at the age that academy spots are given out and that is one of the core problems with expanding the system.

ulsteru20s

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122259951#Comment_122259951

Yea, making up that gap pre academy selection is the key piece.

Sometimes i wonder if counter intuitively, investing directly into schools for ulster, connacht and munster would be the most efficient way to do this. Make more private school level teams and expand scholarships. That would be expensive and also extremely tough politically in terms of picking and choosing.

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122259963#Comment_122259963

In many way I think it could be the most effective, but yeah I think politically (and morally) questionable road to go down.

salmocab

there’s room to improve coaching from minis upwards, the regional representative teams from u16 are good (I assume it’s not just Leinster that do that) but if the earlier coaching was improved the players could be at a higher level when they arrive at that stage. Underage coaching can be hit and miss, too much riding on having a dad that has a clue helping out.

Lost Ormond

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122259494#Comment_122259494

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122259494#Comment_122259494

The fee paying schools are an issue but it's access to then that's the issue and not the schools and what they do in rugby themselves. That they're fee paying rules plenty of kids from accessing them which totally reduces the pool of potential pros unless you have the best possible structures for those outside those schools and we are not there yet. Possibly when leister have completed the expansion of their centres of excellence with the next 4 centres matching the Ken Wall in donnybrook and when munster have built there's in the east and west to match whats in Musgrave etcthe gap will close

Clo-Clo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122260213#Comment_122260213

Leinster is one province, we have four provinces

The obsession with private school is holding back Irish rugby, people prefer to use them as an excuse than put together solutions. The old throw hands up in air and do nothing is a lot easier

Clo-Clo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122259951#Comment_122259951

four provinces and we have been told many times that only Leinster have the private schools model

Munster at the moment probably have the most impressive group of young players

Ulster have also some cracking players and some before that didn’t progress more to do with coaching post academy it would seem

Connacht seems to have a few decent ones as well

If they can identify players now and the system is starting to work better than ever why can’t they expand? Why can’t Connacht get some of those huge GAA player that Mayo constantly produce?

pickarooney

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122260732#Comment_122260732

Bit of an odd take given that Humphries has just pledged to do that.

Lost Ormond

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122260732#Comment_122260732

No people haven't. It's simple fact that schools with big focus on rugby who have fees and associated benefits of that will be able to produce more players than those clubs and schools without those resources.

Clo-Clo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122260972#Comment_122260972

Sounds Very much like throwing hands up in air reading that post

The private schools have been around a long time, the obsession only recently

sprucemoose

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122261268#Comment_122261268

not a recent thing at all. the concentration, for want of a better word, of a large number of players coming from two particular schools is a recent thing though

Clo-Clo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122261319#Comment_122261319

The obsession is very recent, no matter what the topic private school get dragged into it

They are working at the moment, personally I would think people would be obsessed with the sections of player development not providing as many players as they could.

ersatz

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122259977#Comment_122259977

Less problematic if there's a focus on non fee paying schools. There are a lot of these schools that have developed rugby teams in the last few decades, Naas CBS among them. It's just one I'm vaguely familiar with. I'm not sure if they have contributed players to the pro game but its definitely helped the game grow in Kildare.

Lost Ormond

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122261268#Comment_122261268

Not at all and I've been on this site nearly 14 years.... arguing how the sport needs to do more and work to get a wider development system to find more pros and it has in many areas but it will be always behind the schools.

Clo-Clo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122261490#Comment_122261490

The conversation on this website and other starts at private school and never gets past it

Stuck in a loop at this stage

Lost Ormond

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122261370#Comment_122261370

I wouldn't agree with saying less problematic. More it's simply better because if you focus on fee paying you cut off a lot of people. Doesn't help the sports image etc. Naast cbs has had past pupils turn pro over last decade or so but it's been more through the work put in by Naast rfc than the school

ersatz

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122261495#Comment_122261495

It's less problematic because the IRFU further subsidising what are seen as elite schools is a bad look, and there are mosre kids with likely less rugby resources in these schools.

OldRio

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122259868#Comment_122259868

I can only speak about the area I live. To compare the facilities that every small GAA club has in tiny Leitrim to the facilities at Carrick on Shannon Rugby club (The only club in the county) is a very bad joke.

phog

The GAA is an amateur organisation, they can spend their income on facilities, the IRFU have a huge wage bill in comparison to both the GAA and the FAI.

I'm just back from Northern Italy, the facilities in some tiny mountain villages would put Ireland to shame, while playing rugby in a GAA field isn't great from a spectator point of view, the lack of municipal facilities in Ireland is a huge cost on sporting bodies like the GAA and IRFU, that's money that could be used for player development

Clo-Clo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122261890#Comment_122261890

THe money the GAA have got invested over the last 100 years compared to rugby is significant, rugby clubs are only now starting to get any small bit of investment and that has to continue

OldRio

Therefore comparing the GAA to Rugby is just silly.

Ben Bailey

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122262238#Comment_122262238

Why is it 'silly' ?.

There was a time when the GAA didn't exist. It was literally 'wished into existence' by a small, poorly funded, group of enthusiastic amateurs.

Rugby can take a similar path and become a genuine choice for young people. This journey will take a long time but it starts as all journeys do.

Privately funded schools in Leinster (and England, South Africa & Australia amongst others) have shown us a working model.

Because opportunity is predicated on accessibility this system is limited. Add the failure of the State to fund multi sport communal facilities and you've got huge ground to make up.

But you have to start somewhere and the current public awareness of rugby nationally means now is the time to try (pun intended).

OldRio

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122262602#Comment_122262602

I'm not talking about that. Read the original post to see what I am referring to.

First time we keep the ball we shred them.

Edit: Obviously wrong thread.

Former Former Former

On the bright side, Farrell will be happy enough that the bulk of his squad will be getting an extra week's break before the SA trip.

With only Henderson and Keenan definitely ruled out (and Ahern as a potential new cap), we won't see too many shocks in the squad on Wednesday. I would like to see a new face at LH prop and second row, at a minimum.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122265251#Comment_122265251

It’s hard to know who is next up at lock. Ahern & Izuchukwu are both potentially carrying injuries and both look more like 6s. Neither Murray in Connacht looks ready. Doesn’t seem much value in bringing Treadwell but he’s probably likeliest right now even though he had a pretty poor season.

LHP is even more of a problem - there is absolutely no point in having Healy on the bench in SA. Loughman has to be on the bench. I really hope Jack Boyle plays 15 games for Leinster next season.

aloooof

Y’know who’d be handy at lock… 😉

Podge_irl

I'd be surprised if we don't only see Beirne, Ryan and McCarthy actually playing in South Africa so at least in that sense the lack of an obvious alternative isn't so bad. Might only bring those 3 with Baird as cover. LHP is a bigger problem as you say.

I really hope POM isn't captain, it's a shame Ahern is out of the tour. Baird is off form. No real idea what they should do at 6.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122265433#Comment_122265433

6 is the one position where I think we’ve plenty of options at least: Prendergast, McCann, Izuchukwu, Ahern are all viable alternatives to POM and Baird, and a lot of the provinces have guys coming through in that position too I think.

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122265479#Comment_122265479

I just wonder if he'd really plug one of McCann or Izuchukwu straight in, though I'd quite like to see it. Prendergast a bit more of a safe pick but I wouldn't be complaining too much either.