Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

Former Former Former

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122275183#Comment_122275183

it seems pretty clear that Frawley is ahead of H Byrne at Leinster now, and possibly Prendergast is too.

Ross Byrne being left out is a surprise, I don’t think he’s been fully fit going back to the NH game so it might be injury related, but even if it’s not it’s great to get a look at someone else.

thePigeon_

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122275263#Comment_122275263

Not surprised by the Byrne call at all to be honest. Crowley and Frawley were always likely to be the 10s in the matchday squad with a 6/2. Provided they don't get injured that won't change from game 1 to game 2. Might be viewed as harsh because he's Leinster's first choice at present but I doubt Farrell saw much value in bringing Ross along.

Pete_Cavan

Just wish Farrell had selected Doak instead of Murray/Blade. There's a good player in there and I think time with the national squad would help him a lot (similar to JGP), he is worth investing in. It's a position we need new blood in and he is quite suited to playing against a team like the Boks. His goal kicking could also be a useful asset to have.

Clegg

JGP is Ireland's most important player alongside Porter. The drop down to the next best is massive.

Murray is probably going to start, but I hope Casey is given an opportunity to impress. We need something to look at for the future.

letowski

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122275303#Comment_122275303

Don't disagree, but I think Murray's performances for Munster's wins in South Africa against the Bulls and Lions recently might have had a big bearing. He was outstanding in both those games. To be honest, I'd be shocked if Murray doesn't start the first game in LV at altitude, will suit him down to the ground with his kicking game.

AbusesToilets

Thinking that JOB will be 14, Frawley 15, with Prendergast on the bench. Osborne well deserving his call up, been the form 12 this season. Happy for Izzy too, in great form. POM and Murray shouldn't be there at all, cut sling already. Not even top 3 in their positions

aloooof

Initially looks light on 2nd rows, but presumably Baird and Izuchukwu covering. Ahern will feel like it's an opportunity missed with his injury, but Izzy's been excellent in recent weeks in fairness.

Was critical of Casey at the weekend, but would love to see him get some good minutes. He's the closest analog we have to JGP, and I still maintain he has the best pass on the island.

aloooof

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122275350#Comment_122275350

I'd be very surprised if it's not 14. Nash 15. JOB.

And on POM, you'll eventually be right. Not quite yet tho. ;)

Brief_Lives

As usual Tom Ahern, injured at the key moments.

Former Former Former

So I guess RB being omitted is the only real surprise, and maybe Loughman losing out to either Bealham or TOT as emergency LH.

After that, it’s mostly as predicted. I wouldn’t have brought Blade but I doubt he’ll see minutes on the field.

Presume Coombes will be the big talking point but slipping to the bench / finishers/bomb squad at Munster won’t have helped.

Otherwise, a good squad that shouldn’t fear SA too much.

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122275559#Comment_122275559

Well given the murmurs of TOT moving to LH I assume it is him. The more interesting question will be whether it is him or Healy on the bench (TOT bedding into LH would be bold down in SA!)

TRC10

Healy, POM and Murray going on a summer tour at the beginning of a WC cycle is so Irish rugby

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122275594#Comment_122275594

Cause Loughman and Cooney going would be so much more forward thinking 🙄

TRC10

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122275602#Comment_122275602

Eh, taking Loughman would absolutely be more forward thinking. Don't agree on Cooney but I never argued for his conclusion.

Anyway, I'm not the least bit surprised. Ireland don't give guys a go unless the incumbent retires or gets injured. That's just how it is and anyone who expected that to change is silly. So before anyone says I'm whinging. I'm not. I'm just acknowledging how things are.

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122275618#Comment_122275618

Loughman is 28 and shown no signs of ever being good enough. Taking TOT to see if he can cover LH is clearly more forward thinking.

If not Cooney then who exactly is it you think should go?

There are three uncapped players in the squad and multiple low capped players. You are acknowledging how things are in your own head, but that's about it.

Eben Etzebeth is about to play a match with more caps than the entire opposing forward pack.

RichieRich_89

I wonder what it is that Loughman lacks in Farrell's eyes. He looks good to me; strong scrummager, and useful in the loose. I was looking forward to seeing him on early so Porter only had to play 60 minutes. Does Farrell think he doesn't have the right mentality?

I don't really see the point in including Larmour. He's topped out below higher end international rugby, and is too suspect defensively on the right edge. I suppose there aren't a whole lot of other options unless you included more of a development player who wouldn't actually be expected to play (Kilgallen, maybe). Shane Daly is more of a left wing/fullback, and Baloucoune hasn't played for quite a while as far as I'm aware. Could they have had a look at Stewart Moore as a playmaker winger? Farrell likes creatine wingers.

Former Former Former

Jesus Christ can we not do this again

Shehal

Other than the loss of JGP I'm pretty happy with the squad, the introduction of Prendergast at this stage is why I love Andy Farrell as our head coach. Any other Irish coach and he'd be waiting until the autumn at an absolute minimum.

ulsteru20s

i'm not convinced on any of these leinster 10s including prendergast. I feel like he should have expanded that contest to guys like healy and another chance to burns years ago.

Prendergast should be on the EI tour and spending all this summer adding muscle. He's shown nothing in any game that was in actual danger of being lost.

pickarooney

Crowley will, rightly, play 150 minutes barring injury so whoever is going alongside him is emergency cover getting experience with the national team.

There might be a couple of surprise inclusions in the match day 23 but it'll mostly be business as usual.

Jump_In_Jack

My own stab at a 23 from that squad, however my selection looks very out there compared to the usual selection:

Porter, Sheehan, Bealham
Beirne, McCarthy
O’Mahony, Doris, Van der Flier
Murray, Crowley
Stockdale, Henshaw, Ringrose, Nash
O’Brien.
Bench: Herring, O’Toole, Jager, Ryan, Prendergast, Casey, Frawley, Larmour.

To explain some of my reasoning;
I think Furlong is in a rut, really don’t think he’s shown anything above average lately, and Bealham deserves a shot. I’d even prefer Jager as impact sub as he just brings a more powerful size into it with 20 to go.
I think Murray is still better starting than Casey.
Lowe has been up and down lately, Stockdale is due a shot. I’d also favour Larmour on the bench to cover wing/fullback for his pace and flexibility.
I prefer Herring to Kelleher, just an all-round better hooker, better pace, better throws and has a better nose for the try line.
It’d be a huge call to put O’Toole in ahead of Healy, but no better opportunity to test him.
I really like Prendergast and would love to see him get an opportunity, he has been consistently outstanding for Connacht, and love his work rate. Izuchukwu and Baird are probably better locks than back rows, but Prendergast is definitely a better back row than either of them in my opinion.

Lord Palmerston

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122276318#Comment_122276318

I think I disagree with 75% of your reasoning here. Furlong has actually played pretty well of late, unlike the guy you’re proposing to replace him with, Bealham, who is on an awful run of form and on his last outing got completely exposed by Ed Byrne.

James Lowe is still playing great - was one of a handful of Leinster players who played well on Saturday and I’d be shocked if he wasn’t starting for Ireland if he’s healthy.

Disagree on Larmour being flexible - just don’t see it with him. He’s really only a winger I think at this level, especially if Frawley is in the squad.

Would squarely disagree with Prendergast being a better back row than Ryan Baird - there’s simply nothing to back that up. He’s a good player, but that’s a big statement.

thePigeon_

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122276318#Comment_122276318

Did you mean to say Izuchukwu and Baird are better back rows than locks..? Baird is definitely a better back row than lock and Izuchukwu is only going because of his swap to 6.

phog

The squad was announced about 5 hours ago, I've been offline since then but I can't get my head around Coombes not being in the squad.

Was it Cave that said his face didn't fit, Coombes must feel the same. His stats are unreal but he's not getting a look in for Ireland

snotboogie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122276387#Comment_122276387

One year left on both Coombes and Hodnetts contracts. You’d imagine both would have more money on offer abroad, especially Coombes, who would be a great fit for Top 14. Obviously it depends on their priorities but neither is anywhere close to the Ireland squad based on these selections. As a Munster fan I’m very worried.

phog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122276428#Comment_122276428

I just said as much here at home, he's played some great rugby and can't get a look in for a summer tour. I hope there's something else that will keep him at Munster as there isn't much hope of international caps for him ATM.

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122276387#Comment_122276387

5 of his last 7 matches he has been on the bench…

At the end of the day Farrell clearly doesn't rate him. I don't necessarily think he is above reproach or anything, but he has made this clear so it isn't a surprise. For me Coombes lacks the top level pace and strength to be effective at international level. Cian Prendergast has had a great season for Connacht and Izzy is very exciting for Ulster and they and Timoney have been chosen over him for various reasons. I would never be worried about Coombes having to play a match for Ireland, but I'd put him in the same basket as someone like Rhys Ruddock who just lacks a bit at the very top end.

RichieRich_89

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122276387#Comment_122276387

Coombes probably falls down in acceleration and open field speed. How much have you seen him running in the open and showing a good turn of pace? Timoney is way ahead in that regard.

Maybe if he went and got some training in doing block starts and 60m running it would be good for him.

phog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122276454#Comment_122276454

Starting from the bench or not being in the match day team hasn't hindered other players, his stats are very impressive even with starting from the bench.

Jump_In_Jack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122276375#Comment_122276375

I think they are covering lock in this squad but Prendergast is purely covering back row, and I rate him higher than the other two.