Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

tgdaly

France were there for the taking. Got the bit of luck we needed with the yellow card and the bounce for the Kelleher try, didn't take advantage of it. Really poor game plan. France not great by their own standards but in fairness like they were always going to play conservative. Win away from home in 6n is very difficult to get, and they hadn't won in Dublin for 4 games before that so think they played within themselves knowing they've a great chance at a Grand Slam this year and didn't want to blow it in the 2nd week in what was potentially a banana skin game for them. Sure look, we won a tight game with Sexton's drop goal 3 years ago and it propelled us onto a Grand Slam. Probably a sign of how good a team France are.

The lack of options now at FH and a few other positions is a bit worrying. Neither Burns or R Byrne are the answer so I think it's time to move on. Call Carty back into the squad or start having a serious look at H Byrne or Ben Healy. With the championship gone and Italy up next it's the time to do it. We'd have 4 weeks of training and an Italy game before facing Scotland so it's a really good opportunity. We should give games (or at least strongly consider) to Casey, H Bryne, Baird, Coomes, O'Sullivan, and get Kelleher and Larmour back into the starting line-up as well.

molloyjh

Clegg wrote: »

I don't quite agree with Kinsella on this one. The kick wasn't a bad option to take. We have men over, but Ringrose's kick was executed well and had the French defender retreating into the 22 to regather but with chasers bearing down on him. We either force the player into a rushed kick to touch and make a huge net gain in metres, or even better, force a turnover.

But our tackling was crap and we let the French player escape. Think it was Earls who over shot on the hit. Whiffed at air. Story of our championship so far. Take the wrong option in attack too often and the odd time we do something well we mess up in the next phase.

There's definitely an argument we should've kept ball in hand, especially with JGP tracking well ahead of play waiting on the break to be made. Either option was a good one imo. But execution at the crucial moment let us down again.


https://twitter.com/Murray_Kinsella/status/1361107447658725378?s=09

JGPs reaction says it all there....

Clegg

molloyjh wrote: »

JGPs reaction says it all there....

I've an awful feeling that even if we went ball in hand we would've managed to muck it up before JGP could even become involved. Not a lot to be cheerful about backs wise at the minute.

We've a backline of players very low on confidence. I really want to know what's happening on the training ground. Catt and Farrell have said before that they want the players to play what's in front on them. But that clearly isn't happening. Or maybe it is, but the players skills have deteriorated to the point where they can't do it effectively. Happened to Leinster under Matt O'Connor.

bilston

I don't think thats really a missed opportunity. Ireland aren't going to score from that position in a month of Sundays at the minute. The net result would have been similar.

Although it is probably a good habit to keep the ball in hand in that position.

If it had been even 10 or 15 metres further down the pitch I might feel more strongly

Louis Friend

It wasn’t a missed opportunity, they’re a better side

UAEguy2020

Clegg wrote: »

I've an awful feeling that even if we went ball in hand we would've managed to muck it up before JGP could even become involved. Not a lot to be cheerful about backs wise at the minute.

We've a backline of players very low on confidence. I really want to know what's happening on the training ground. Catt and Farrell have said before that they want the players to play what's in front on them. But that clearly isn't happening. Or maybe it is, but the players skills have deteriorated to the point where they can't do it effectively. Happened to Leinster under Matt O'Connor.

There must be some magic train they travel in from their province as they seem to have no problem with basic skills there. I wonder are they still stuck in the Schmidt ways mentally when it comes to wearing a green shirt as some of the attack they produce is tier two level bad.

UAEguy2020

Louis Friend wrote: »

It wasn’t a missed opportunity, they’re a better side

It is a missed opportunity as they game was there to be won for us.

irishbucsfan

bilston wrote: »

In what way was Burns rubbish? He had one bad miss at goal, and was stripped off the ball once. What else did he do wrong? Ireland were the better team for much of the first half when he was on the pitch. In the second half Ireland were literally going backwards when they had the ball.

We're clearly a much better side in possession when Burns is there, in comparison to Byrne who plays so deep and can't take it to the line. I'd hope Burns can improve as well.

crisco10

We are just so easy to defend against at the moment, especially when our top carriers tire later in game.

That last set was perfect demonstration of it, all France did was get 14 or 15 defenders on their feet and rush. (Granted made a bit easier because we were never going to kick).

Wales came up with the template in 2011 world cup, and it is still our Achilles heel. If our big forwards don't win in one out channel we don't score.

I like Byrne (and love him for Leinster), and was impressed with his goal kick yesterday...But I just have this nagging doubt that more often than not when he is on the pitch we struggle even more to go forwards with ball in hand.

mfceiling

Louis Friend wrote: »

Incredible to see Farrell being thrown to the wolves. There has been clear progress in these two games. We didnt win them, but there’s been progress.

A few observations:

- James Lowe should never play for Ireland again

- Ross Byrne became a man today

- Billy Burns should never play for Ireland again

- Iain Henderson is a first choice row merchant

A few observations.

- James Lowe should play for Ireland again

- What the hell does "became a man today" actually mean? Did his balls drop and his voice break?

- Billy Burns should and will play for Ireland again.

- Great observation that the 2nd row with 60 caps with Ireland and over 110 appearances for Ulster is a "first choice row merchant".....you'd wonder if any of the current crop if coaches have spotted that.


Typical on boards and online that when Ireland go through a dip or heaven forbid lose a game, the knives are out. Sack the coach, shoot the out half, flog the entire team, burn down the Aviva.... blah blah blah.

We were within a penalty kick of beating France yesterday. We had 14 men for the majority of the Welsh game and we almost won that game. It's small margins and a bit of luck....at the moment we're on the wrong side of both.
This is a competitive six Nations. Bar Italy, any one of the other 5 teams could beat each other on any given day, but let's gloss over that and get the pitchforks out.

Niallof9

Clearly holding back moves for the World Cup. nothing to see here, it will all come good just give it time.

Niallof9

mfceiling wrote: »

A few observations.

- James Lowe should play for Ireland again

- What the hell does "became a man today" actually mean? Did his balls drop and his voice break?

- Billy Burns should and will play for Ireland again.

- Great observation that the 2nd row with 60 caps with Ireland and over 110 appearances for Ulster is a "first choice row merchant".....you'd wonder if any of the current crop if coaches have spotted that.


Typical on boards and online that when Ireland go through a dip or heaven forbid lose a game, the knives are out. Sack the coach, shoot the out half, flog the entire team, burn down the Aviva.... blah blah blah.

We were within a penalty kick of beating France yesterday. We had 14 men for the majority of the Welsh game and we almost won that game. It's small margins and a bit of luck....at the moment we're on the wrong side of both.
This is a competitive six Nations. Bar Italy, any one of the other 5 teams could beat each other on any given day, but let's gloss over that and get the pitchforks out.

ah yeah lets gloss over the 5 defeats from 11 games as well including some absolute dog**** performances.

It isn't a dip its been a continual downward slide since 2018.

Typical on boards and online that there will always people defending the indefensible. The only way to rectify this will be actually finishing second last. Yesterday with ball in hand, it was one of the worst displays in a very very long time, no matter how good the French defence was. The KInsella tweets are glaring examples.

Bazzo

Clegg wrote: »

I don't quite agree with Kinsella on this one. The kick wasn't a bad option to take. We have men over, but Ringrose's kick was executed well and had the French defender retreating into the 22 to regather but with chasers bearing down on him. We either force the player into a rushed kick to touch and make a huge net gain in metres, or even better, force a turnover.

But our tackling was crap and we let the French player escape. Think it was Earls who over shot on the hit. Whiffed at air. Story of our championship so far. Take the wrong option in attack too often and the odd time we do something well we mess up in the next phase.

There's definitely an argument we should've kept ball in hand, especially with JGP tracking well ahead of play waiting on the break to be made. Either option was a good one imo. But execution at the crucial moment let us down again.


https://twitter.com/Murray_Kinsella/status/1361107447658725378?s=09

We had numbers loads of times and didn't kick too. Inevitably the last pass was poor and gave the French defence time to scramble.

PMC83

So now that the championship is gone I wonder will we see new players blooded for the reminder of the tournament? Sexton won't be getting much better from this point onward, even if he were to make it to the next world cup we'd most likely be looking at a player operating at 60% of his peak.


I was never one rushing players out the door but he wont learn much more from playing in an Irish shirt at this stage.

Niallof9

PMC83 wrote: »

So now that the championship is gone I wonder will we see new players blooded for the reminder of the tournament? Sexton won't be getting much better from this point onward, even if he were to make it to the next world cup we'd most likely be looking at a player operating at 60% of his peak.


I was never one rushing players out the door but he wont learn much more from playing in an Irish shirt at this stage.

No i'd say not. Serious money involved in the different positions.

We probably can't even risk the Italy match now. So he wasted November and now this, no tour likely. I'd bet my house we're heading into another WC with a 37 year old captain. Its crazy particularly when he had a full window of meaningless games to try things.

crisco10

Bazzo wrote: »

We had numbers loads of times and didn't kick too. Inevitably the last pass was poor and gave the French defence time to scramble.

And a complete lack of dummy runners keeping defenders honest and stopping the drift. Lots of screenshots available of 5 on 3s or similar but little ability to use them.

stephen_n

Hands Like Flippers wrote: »

And KEENAN should stop running sideways instead of straightening up. Did it a few times but wasn't the only one.

When Keenan was running straight back during the AI’s and end of last years six nations. He was getting criticized for losing his support and getting turned over. He is now choosing a point of contact where there is support. Really is a case of you are screwed if you do and screwed if you don’t.

sydthebeat

stephen_n wrote: »

When Keenan was running straight back during the AI’s and end of last years six nations. He was getting criticized for losing his support and getting turned over. He is now choosing a point of contact where there is support. Really is a case of you are screwed if you do and screwed if you don’t.

100%

Kearney was pilloried for years for not finding space with ball in hand, and seeking contact first.

Keenan seeks, and he's castigated as well.

mfceiling

Niallof9 wrote: »

ah yeah lets gloss over the 5 defeats from 11 games as well including some absolute dog**** performances.

It isn't a dip its been a continual downward slide since 2018.

Typical on boards and online that there will always people defending the indefensible. The only way to rectify this will be actually finishing second last. Yesterday with ball in hand, it was one of the worst displays in a very very long time, no matter how good the French defence was. The KInsella tweets are glaring examples.

Wow 5 defeats in 11 games.

You were strangely absent here in 2018 when we were unbeaten yet the minute we lose a few games (as all teams do) and here you are.

OldRio

Pretty frustrating numbers from Ireland.

https://twitter.com/rpetty80/status/1361249135110848512?s=20

Niallof9

mfceiling wrote: »

Wow 5 defeats in 11 games.

You were strangely absent here in 2018 when we were unbeaten yet the minute we lose a few games (as all teams do) and here you are.

Ah of course, 2018. change the record, the year is 2021.

Christ, Irish rugby is in serious trouble i think. Scottish match takes on huge significance. It seems the only way for people to wake up to our reality is losing it.

phog

The break in the 6Ns couldn't have come at a better time for us, with all the HIAs and niggles players have it will give us time to get a few players back on their feet again and with Italy first up it should give us time to experiment a bit too.

thomond2006

Niallof9 wrote: »

Ah of course, 2018. change the record, the year is 2021.

Christ, Irish rugby is in serious trouble i think. Scottish match takes on huge significance. It seems the only way for people to wake up to our reality is losing it.

Don't revel in this too much now.

Niallof9

OldRio wrote: »

Pretty frustrating numbers from Ireland.

https://twitter.com/rpetty80/status/1361249135110848512?s=20

The lack of clean breaks and number of passes and metres is a clue. We are still seeking contact, still creating loads of contact points and just shoveling out ****e ball. I would love to see the number of rucks we create. It was one of the highest in World Rugby under Joe, i would say it is still high. Defenders beaten is interesting, there is a little bit more of players using footwork. You can see it with Henderson in the carry. The stats don't add up though.

We're still a great side for retaining possession and controlling the ball, just like in 2018. Yet the same failings are apparent. If you're going to play another form of Joeball just continue doing what worked.

Personally i think Irish rugby are pound for pound the worst footballing side (not the players) in the World, playing by diktat since 2014.

Those tournament stats, regardless, are pretty grim for rugby as a sport. Its a game of inches of course, still there is an argument for changes there. Rugby as a sport still needs to grow significantly.

theVersatile

OldRio wrote: »

Pretty frustrating numbers from Ireland.

https://twitter.com/rpetty80/status/1361249135110848512?s=20

Surely those numbers will catch up on Wales eventually. We're on top of them in almost every aspect of the game, yet we're 0 for 2 and they're 2 for 2. It's been said a good bit on here so far but small margins

salmocab

I don’t think many are delighted with where we are currently. My own two cents is, we’re actually doing okay but the backs seem blunt in attack and I suspect that’s more to do with systems and coaching than personnel. Forwards are going quite well with a decent bit of depth except at LH and to lesser extent hooker. The back row has been going alright but as I’ve said here before there is just something not quite right, I suppose it’s the balance thing but it’s hard to define and harder to say what’s not quite right. Although I think yesterday it went better as a unit.
10 has been done to death and whilst I’d love to see us move on from an ageing sexton I just don’t see who would do better and hope that one of the younger lads step up in the next 12 months. HB is my big hope but he’s not at the stage yet where he’ll be taking jerseys off the two ahead of him.

Burkie1203

OldRio wrote: »

Pretty frustrating numbers from Ireland.

https://twitter.com/rpetty80/status/1361249135110848512?s=20

Few key points

~130 more runs then France who are only 40m less on total metres made. Tells its own story.

Discipline good. Fewest penalties conceded but the highest turnovers

Lowest offloads but the most passes

cantwbr1

theVersatile wrote: »

Surely those numbers will catch up on Wales eventually. We're on top of them in almost every aspect of the game, yet we're 0 for 2 and they're 2 for 2. It's been said a good bit on here so far but small margins

I agree but the two sets of numbers that would concern me are
tackle % which at 84% is worse than everyone bar Italy
Turnovers which is way worse than everyone else

The Inbetween is mine

We were poor in attack yesterday, no structure, no obvious leader in our halfbacks... they tried... but ultimately we looked blunt and clueless....
I think ROG's comments were very telling... saying POC wouldn't just be looking at defense, he's also be interested in our attack....
I think by the 6 nations end, we'll have some comings and goings in the coaching ticket... Catt brings next to nothing to our attack...we just look disjointed and hapless... Earls our top tryscorer and he's left isolated on the wing.
It's ok to get beaten if you see signs of recovery, but we seem to be regressing... 1 or 2 players showing some form.... but on the whole, it's making for depressing viewing

theVersatile

If I wasn't a Munster fan who wanted to keep him, I would've loved to see Larkham get his hands on this attack.