Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

Podge_irl

No one is saying "everything is fine" which is why it is both impossible and pointless to debate the issue with you.

Anyone who says "things will eventually fall apart" will always, ultimately, be proven right.

aloooof

Niallof9 wrote: »

and you know what else is tiring, the same posters continually living in the past and saying everything is fine. Sure it will be grand next...insert tournament/tour/match..hiding moves. these people have been completely proven wrong, time and time again yet they still hold court here. you'd think there would be a little reticence to criticize others for pointing out such obvious flaws.

Who is saying everything is fine?? I've seen pretty much nobody say this! What you're saying here is just not true.

stephen_n

wittycynic wrote: »

Doubt anyone is reveling in the way Ireland are performing at the moment. But it's beyond me how anyone can think we don't need an urgent change in management given the complete absence of any progress, and indeed continued deterioration, we've seen under Farrell.

If you couldn’t see progress in the last two games. Then I would suggest you’re not watching the games or at least you’re not paying much attention. Except to what you want to see.

Niallof9

aloooof wrote: »

Out of interest, do you care to share this moniker with us? Presumably it would have a lot of praise for the results in 2018?

Presume the above is a typo as well and you mean 2019? 2018 was the best year ever for Irish ruggy.

yeah it was full of praise but also criticism for the obvious direction we were going and the mistakes from 2015 we were repeating. and i was proven correct. As were many people pilloried on here. and somehow, inexplicably we seem to be doing it again for 2023. its hilarious. it no longer annoys me, you just have to laugh at the absurdity and the people still defending it.

prawnsambo

aloooof wrote: »

Out of interest, do you care to share this moniker with us? Presumably it would have a lot of praise for the results in 2018?

Presume the above is a typo as well and you mean 2019? 2018 was the best year ever for Irish ruggy.

"Old Moniker from 2015 and 2018" Join date 2013 :rolleyes:

Niallof9

stephen_n wrote: »

If you couldn’t see progress in the last two games. Then I would suggest you’re not watching the games or at least you’re not paying much attention. Except to what you want to see.

progress!? come on now, its just not true.

theVersatile

aloooof wrote: »

I never know what to make of these stats, tbh. For example, on ESPN, they have Ruddock down as 8 metres from 11 carries (updated from 10 from 10 last night). They're so divergent that one of them must be completely inaccurate.

I'd be interested to see stats from any credible journalists if anyone has come across them? I'd assume they have access to more reliable sources.

Murray Kinsella uses those stats I've linked in the Six Nations site. Specifically, if you go to Statistics then Match Data Downloads, there's a much more detailed document which included the ruck stats used by MK

Niallof9

Podge_irl wrote: »

No one is saying "everything is fine" which is why it is both impossible and pointless to debate the issue with you.

Anyone who says "things will eventually fall apart" will always, ultimately, be proven right.

they pretty much are. Two World Cups were effectively written off because of it. 2023 looks similar now. Thats not what people say. they recognise sport is ever fluid, nobody has a right to stay on top. The issues are multiple and have been discussed ad nausium on here. yet you've pared it down to a soundbite. nice one.

Ah i don't care anymore, there's no getting through to the usual heads on here. we could be getting the wooden spoon by the end and people on here would still be defending it all, saying "we're improving".

aloooof

Niallof9 wrote: »

yeah it was full of praise but also criticism for the obvious direction we were going and the mistakes from 2015 we were repeating. and i was proven correct. As were many people pilloried on here. and somehow, inexplicably we seem to be doing it again for 2023. its hilarious. it no longer annoys me, you just have to laugh at the absurdity and the people still defending it.

So you were proven correct under this old moniker? If you're going to claim that, I'll ask again; would you care to provide this old moniker? Or even link to some of your posts showing this?

irishbucsfan

Everything is actually totally fine

irelandrover

Niallof9 wrote: »

progress!? come on now, its just not true.

In the autumn the attack was blunt, the scrum was poor and the lineout was a mess.

So far the scrum and lineout have been solid. the scrum which was down to 7 for most of the Wales game. the attack is still blunt.
If you dont see progress in the last two games its because you dont want to.

Everyone here admits the attack was blunt, and that we need alternatives to Murray and Sexton.

Niallof9

irelandrover wrote: »

In the autumn the attack was blunt, the scrum was poor and the lineout was a mess.

So far the scrum and lineout have been solid. the scrum which was down to 7 for most of the Wales game. the attack is still blunt.
If you dont see progress in the last two games its because you dont want to.

Everyone here admits the attack was blunt, and that we need alternatives to Murray and Sexton.

so as our core fundamentals fell apart under our long time assistant, first time coach, its now progress they have been repaired.

Our attack has been an issue for a long long time. We had people saying oh its clear its being fixed, the players "buzzing" at the changes etc.

If you don't see that as the main gripe any of the critics have, then you are just as bad. this isn't new and was what my criticism was about before.

Niallof9

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Everything is actually totally fine

good one. 0 from 2, facing into two really tough matches. i'll hold my hands up if we emerge with one win and one performance. will the others if it goes tits up and we see the usual in selection and attack?

P.Walnuts

Niallof9 wrote: »

so as our core fundamentals fell apart under our long time assistant, first time coach, its now progress they have been repaired.

Our attack has been an issue for a long long time. We had people saying oh its clear its being fixed, the players "buzzing" at the changes etc.

If you don't see that as the main gripe any of the critics have, then you are just as bad. this isn't new and was what my criticism was about before.

Go on, share your old username where you foretold all of our problems now?

Louis Friend

I was lucky enough to speak with Joe Schmidt a while ago. It was fascinating, obviously. His biggest issue in terms of developing and progressing the attacking side of our game was the lack of stability at centre. He pointed to the D’Arcy / O’Driscoll partnership and our relative inability to establish a regular partnership since then. He rightly said that it’s the hardest most complex position on the pitch and the fulcrum around which the attack is built. Hopefully the Henshaw/Ringrose axis can really establish itself which then benefits the team enormously.

Niallof9

Louis Friend wrote: »

I was lucky enough to speak with Joe Schmidt a while ago. It was fascinating, obviously. His biggest issue in terms of developing and progressing the attacking side of our game was the lack of stability at centre. He pointed to the D’Arcy / O’Driscoll partnership and our relative inability to establish a regular partnership since then. He rightly said that it’s the hardest most complex position on the pitch and the fulcrum around which the attack is built. Hopefully the Henshaw/Ringrose axis can really establish itself which then benefits the team enormously.

Yeah thats true. We have been very unlucky with injuries and the mixing at centres didn't help at all with either one injured at some point. How many games have Ringrose and Henshaw started together now?

we have the core of a very good side which is why AF is in serious trouble if he finishes 1 from 5

thomond2006

People can be negative to their heart's content.

However, if you're only going to ever be negative, then are you worth engaging with? I don't come on here to be made (more!) miserable.

bilston

Louis Friend wrote: »

I was lucky enough to speak with Joe Schmidt a while ago. It was fascinating, obviously. His biggest issue in terms of developing and progressing the attacking side of our game was the lack of stability at centre. He pointed to the D’Arcy / O’Driscoll partnership and our relative inability to establish a regular partnership since then. He rightly said that it’s the hardest most complex position on the pitch and the fulcrum around which the attack is built. Hopefully the Henshaw/Ringrose axis can really establish itself which then benefits the team enormously.

Its a fair point...we need to see Henshaw and Ringrose gets loads of minutes together. Considering they play for the same province its amazing how little they've played together. As crazy as it seems given where Ireland are I'd say they could well be the Lions test midfield in the summer should it go ahead.

Niallof9

thomond2006 wrote: »

People can be negative to their heart's content.

However, if you're only going to ever be negative, then are you worth engaging with?

I have never been overly negative of players or individuals. Unlike some on here. We have the core of a very good team, which is why its so bloody frustrating.

Anyhow i'm leaving it there. IF we emerge from the 6 nations with two more wins and a performance against England you could be happy enough with it.

Af will most likely get till the WC 23 so whats the point in arguing. But if he loses against Scotland my criticism will look like a picnic. Todays Irish independent wouldn't make great reading for him. D'arcy already on him, Horgan has been quiet possibly cause like you say too negative and people stop listening. ROG was hardly gushing in praise.

The two reasons for me are A) he shouldn't have been given the job and he totally messed up the November window. The attack and lack of shape i'll give him a pass as its deeper than just a coaching thing. There's something not right there with our mental ability there, and why we refuse to do certain tasks/skills/fundamentals as MK pointed out.

Buer

Niallof9 wrote: »

good one. 0 from 2, facing into two really tough matches. i'll hold my hands up if we emerge with one win and one performance. will the others if it goes tits up and we see the usual in selection and attack?

Even if we lose those, things are fine.

Niallof9

Buer wrote: »

Even if we lose those, things are fine.

:rolleyes:

in life, in general, yeah sure. its only sport.

In a rugby sense and a sporting sense, if you're happy with that, good luck to you. Irish rugby will be in the doldrums and Big Andy won't be the man to lift it out.

Buer

I'll be delighted with it. We're competing with the best teams in the world and putting up a solid effort.

Niallof9

Buer wrote: »

I'll be delighted with it. We're competing with the best teams in the world and putting up a solid effort.

i can only lol at that.

Its serious wummery. bravo

the players themselves would be disgusted, which at least is something.

stephen_n

Niallof9 wrote: »

progress!? come on now, its just not true.

Our set piece has dramatically improved since last autumn. Both the scrum and lineout are incredibly solid. Which will be the base for any improvements we make. We gave away 28kg in the pack yesterday and still managed put pressure on them at scrum time. So if you can’t see that as improvement. It’s because you simply don’t want to see them.

aloooof

Niallof9 wrote: »

i can only lol at that.

Its serious wummery. bravo

the players themselves would be disgusted, which at least is something.

No chance of that moniker that was full of praise for 2018 then, Niall?

Niallof9

stephen_n wrote: »

Our set piece has dramatically improved since last autumn. Both the scrum and lineout are incredibly solid. Which will be the base for any improvements we make. We gave away 28kg in the pack yesterday and still managed put pressure on them at scrum time. So if you can’t see that as improvement. It’s because you simply don’t want to see them.

i have answered this. Of course its improvement. Our scrum and lineout is fantastic atm. But pray tell, under who's watch did it fall apart?

Kudos to Farrell or whomever to bringing in extra help. But whomever didn't do the appointments in the first place fupped up (nucifora maybe). Look at all of France's coaching team.

So from a very **** base since Japan, and bad start, yes its improved.

P.Walnuts

aloooof wrote: »

No chance of that moniker that was full of praise for 2018 then, Niall?

He' ignored two requests now for it....I do wonder why :pac:

Niallof9

aloooof wrote: »

No chance of that moniker that was full of praise for 2018 then, Niall?

As i said yes it was. But as i pointed out, and others did the very issues we complained about eventually saw us come unstuck in Japan.

Joe is our best coach ever. But also Joe oversaw two of our worst World Cups, given expectations, ever. The first was probably pure chance, but also we didn't build the squad. The second was a culmination of our putrid attack and ultra conservative style of rugby and selections.

I just don't see what AF is bringing to the table, particularly given he was our assistant coach for much of our slide.

and God how many times, its 2021. Sport doesn't exist in a vacuum.

aloooof

Niallof9 wrote: »

As i said yes it was. But as i pointed out, and others did the very issues we complained about eventually saw us come unstuck in Japan.

Joe is our best coach ever. But also Joe oversaw two of our worst World Cups, given expectations, ever. The first was probably pure chance, but also we didn't build the squad. The second was a culmination of our putrid attack and ultra conservative style of rugby and selections.

And the monkier you claim to have posted all this foresight under is.... ?

I'll leave it here, for the benefit of the thread, tbh...

Dubinusa

Our attack is blunt and looks poor. We don't seem to play what's in front of us. We do have the players but, there has to be a confidence issue or even a coaching problem. The garryowens won't work against top level sides. In saying that, I think we can fix these issues. Maybe Catt is not the coach that can do it. I think that the poor play is really exacerbated by the loss to Wales.
If we had won that match, I think we are not gnawing our fingers. But, as it stands, this tournament is done and dusted for us and the focus should be on our attacking structure. I believe we will beat Italy comfortably. We could beat Scotland and England will be interesting. Farrell should be given time. He's had some bad run of luck and although I wasn't chuffed about his appointment, I think he can fix the problems.
Besides, what or who is the alternative? It's obviously a crap position to be in and he will be feeling the pressure. I would say that if he is fired, Nucifora should also get the boot. Nucifora is the general manager and this is also his problem. I would love to see Leo in Nucifora's position.
I think if we beat Italy and Scotland and go into the England fixture with confidence, anything can happen. It's worth remembering that we have been gash for over 2 years and we are improving. Our scrum is solid, the line out is getting better and new players have been brought in.