Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

Clegg

We lost, but there are plenty of positives to take from that game. We faced the World Champions at one of the hardest venues in the world for opposition to play, and came within a score of winning.

South Africa started the game incredibly physically and never let us settle into our attacking or defensive patterns. We scrambled brilliantly though and Doris especially was a totem for his teammates to rally around.

We were better in the second half. The Boks again started well, but didn't have quite the same dominance and we worked some good attacking opportunities. It wasn't to be in the end, but we put in a very credible performance.

In the build up to this fixture there was a lot of pessimism from online fans and in the Irish press. Quite a few were predicting a heavy defeat. The fact we were within 7 points, and on another day could have won, shows the quality of the team.

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122348790#Comment_122348790

For funsies. Neither is a position of need and in a full strength 23 it's hard to see how him on the win isn't our best use of resources. We have a better 15 and I'm not sure benching Henshaw over Larmour makes much sense.

Anyway, I thought Osborne did quite well at 15 and the concern about him was largely misplaced. It'll be a killer if he's not available next week though, would have been nice to have him get another shot.

I would start Ryan ahead of McCarthy, would start Henshaw and Ringrose if possible but would give serious consideration to McCloskey/Ringrose otherwise and frankly anyone ahead of POM at this point. Casey's injury is a pain in the tits and hopefully he's ok. Murray will have to play 70 minutes next week.

ulsteru20s

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122349167#Comment_122349167

You play him at 12 and keep hemshaw on a 5-3 bench. A 6-2 bench is tricky as he doesn't play ten i think. Otherwise, i'd be tempted to use him as a super frawley.

I think maybe at 15 and keenan on wing would be interesting if you wanted to go dual playmaker.

No matter how you cut it, its an elite player above osborne in every single depth chart he is on.

I think osborne is too slow to be a top end 15 anyway so all a bit moot maybe.

FtD v2

If Aki can’t go, McCloskey would make a lot of sense to me. His physicality and directness would definitely paint a different picture to the South Africans.

I hope Izuchukwu is involved next week. I think Jager should be on the bench ahead of Bealham, and think Ringrose should start at 13. If Osborne can’t play, I would hope it’s O’Brien at 15 but think it’s likely to be Frawley.

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122349191#Comment_122349191

Keenan is a better 15, why would you move him out to the wing by your logic? No Barrett doesn't play 10. Realistically I expect him to play across 11/12/15/23 depending on need. Yes that likely means ahead of Osborne, for 6 months when he is 22 I really don't think that is that big of a deal.

ulsteru20s

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122349214#Comment_122349214

Because alot of barrett's utility is playmaking and he has played a ton at 12/15. Its got to be one of those spots. Keenan at least would be a really good winger. Henshaw can't play anywhere else. Barrett is clearly a better player than henshaw and not better than keenan, but its tricky.

Again, if its not a big deal to block a literal ireland starter level player from even being in 23s for all the big games of one year, then blocking doesn't exist. Can we retire it as a concept, because this is the best example of it.

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122349223#Comment_122349223

I'm not really sure it is the best example of it, but I've never used it as a concept anyway so it's meaningless to me. If Osborne doesn't make 23s for Leinster he isn't going to be in the mix for Ireland next year and we can worry about that then. Though it would mean that Keenan is available anyway.

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122349194#Comment_122349194

I'd give serious thought to McCloskey over Aki anyway. Jager may as well be on the bench if our scrum is going to get minced that badly with Bealham on.

ulsteru20s

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122349317#Comment_122349317

The only people he could beat out of those 23s already make ireland squads.

Thrashssacre

Team for next week:

1. Porter
2. Kelleher
3. Furlong
4. Ryan
5. Beirne
6. Doris
7. Vdf
8. Timony
9. Murray
10. Crowley
11. Lowe
12. McCloskey
13. Ringrose
14. Nash
15. Osborne
16. Herring
17. Tot
18. Jager
19. Izzy
20. Pom
21. Blade
22. Prendergast
23. Job

Can't win the series and I feel this selection is bedding in a few for the future with enough of the frontliners to make it meaningful for their development.

Clo-Clo

Sheehan will be out next week based on viewing, he couldn’t run at one stage and turned around to pass, good back up options

I had doubts over Casey but he had a good game, no chance he is available next week so does Farrell start Blade with Murray off bench which worked well or try start Murray?

Podge_irl

Not sure there is any point whatsoever in starting Blade, it'll be Murray I'm almost certain.

Former Former Former

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122349223#Comment_122349223

Can we retire it as a concept, because this is the best example of it.

It really isn't. It's the worst example of it.

IRFU don't want NIQs coming in and blocking the development of potential Irish test players. They are concerned about a lad playing 25 games a season for three years and keeping out young Irish guys. If Henshaw, Ringrose or Keenan benches for a European knock-out game or two, the impact on Ireland is zero, and the guy won't be here long enough to hold any developing players back.

I'd say Ala'alaatoa being replaced by Slimani is a far more egregious example of it tbh, or any number of Munster centres over the years.

Clo-Clo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122349223#Comment_122349223

In terms Henshaw isn’t a better player than Barrett? Not so sure about that, Henshaw is class and just had injuries at the wrong time. Henshaw has shown on form and fit he is one of the best centres in the World

When Leinster signed Ngatai I didn’t see as much discussion about it, it went unnoticed as did the signing of Tomane…not sure why this is on the Ireland thread, barrett is taking the NIQ centre slot in Leinster which has been a slot for years because of the commitment of the Irish players to Ireland

ulsteru20s

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122349459#Comment_122349459

Because barrett is a much better player than Ngatai. And i like ngatai.

ulsteru20s

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122349444#Comment_122349444

Slimani or whatever is name is blocks no one of importance.

Barrett will keep osborne out of 23s for important games. Obviously the latter is worse.

Madeoface

Watching the highlights again I can't understand why the neck roll on kelleher while he (accidentally) hooked the ball back while on the floor (i.e being pulled out of the ruck by his head) wasn't looked at. Leading up to the disallowed try. Maybe TS analytics can highlight..lol.

Farrell seemed pissed the Casey incident wasn't looked at. Disappointed Snyman didn't have the decency to check on his recent teammate either. 7 footer planting a tiny 9 into the hard surface. Big Willy Skelton always a top bloke for checking the damage he'd wrought

Dubinusa

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122348472#Comment_122348472

I don't think Beirnes is suited to hard yards/ crash ball. He's better picking running lines and soft shoulders. Boks shut him down fairly well. Big Joe gives up a lot of silly plays/errors. Still, he gets over the gainline.

Dubinusa

Wouldn't the failings be on P.O.C? That's his job?

Dubinusa

Sgreed! He's athletic and strong and makes yards but, he's raw.

Lost Ormond

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122349623#Comment_122349623

Who is? Quote or say Who you're referring to dub…

nerd69

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122349830#Comment_122349830

Mccarthy id say. I dont think he made many yards yest though id be interested to see the stats

FtD v2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122349858#Comment_122349858

Third highest yardage amongst starters in the pack, but it was an underwhelming 11m off 6 carries. Only Sheehan (28m off 8 carries) and Doris (42m off 15 carries) had decent numbers amongst the starters, while Kelleher (38m off 8 carries) and Baird (30m off 3 carries) had good numbers.

POM (3m off 2 carries) and Furlong (3m off 5 carries) were poorest, but both starting centres also had poor numbers and so did Calvin Nash (who the game really seemed to just pass by yesterday).

Interested Observer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122350100#Comment_122350100

Where do you get the match stats these days?

FtD v2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122350102#Comment_122350102

Usually ESPN Scrum are quite good, but they haven’t posted yet. These numbers are from Irish Rugby, under the ‘Performance’ section.

FtD v2

Would also say some of the stats look a little unreliable having watched the game back - i.e POM is down for 1 missed tackle total, but there’s a sequence currently on Murray Kinsella’s instagram account where he misses two tackles on DDA in the space of around 10 seconds.

Clegg

If this series teaches us anything, it's that we might have a solid backup for Keenen. Jamie Osborne has played the majority of his pro rugby at inside centre, but the relative lack of familiarity with that position didn't seem to bother him yesterday.

He was solid under the high ball, made a few decent cover tackles and took his try well. I'd like to see him get more involved in attack. He has an excellent pass off either hand and is also very good at offloading out of contact. Yesterday we struggled to build much in attack due to the Boks suffocating pressure in the first half. But if Osborne gets a chance at 15 next week I hope we'll see more possession and a greater chance for him to influence the game.

dublin49

Hansen's absence is a big loss to the dynamism of this team,every yard gained now is a hard yard in his absence.

Former Former Former

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122350475#Comment_122350475

Yeah, I think this is accurate. Match stats say that Nash had 2 carries and 2 passes, vs 6 carries and 8 passes for Lowe. Hansen's involvements are normally much closer to Lowe's.

Nash is a very good winger but Hansen is great at popping up everywhere and making things happen, and I think he's a huge loss.

Dubinusa

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122349830#Comment_122349830

McCarthy