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Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

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    #35192
    nerd69
    Registered Users Posts: 10,066 ✭✭✭✭nerd69


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122356366#Comment_122356366

    He can shoot out for a big hit and be disruptive at breakdowns but hes in the squad to be a big freakish carrier as iv said follow him around and watch him clear out rucks he has big deficiencys to his game his carrying is supposed to be what makes up for that t compare his carrying stats to etzebeth and feel thats reflective of the game in general is a bit silly



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    #35193
    FtD v2
    Registered Users Posts: 91 ✭✭FtD v2


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122356358#Comment_122356358

    They absolutely don't - the South Africans typically use Etzebeth as a carrier. He's a huge physical player, it's absolutely a part of his game, he just didn't have a good game carrying on Saturday.

    You can't point to anything of note that Etzebeth did in the game on Saturday, and you're the one who felt the need to wade into this argument that didn't originally involve you. You have nothing to back up your piece but invisible ruck stats, from a game in which SA didn't have any noticeably more effective rucking than we did.



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    #35194
    Clo-Clo
    Registered Users Posts: 5,036 ✭✭✭Clo-Clo


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122356382#Comment_122356382

    He is in the team for a combination of game play

    You decided his "be all and end all" is carrying, that doesn't mean you are right.

    In the big La Rochelle games it wasnt his ball carrying but his ability to counter ruck and defend against the big lads Skelton…..



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    #35195
    nerd69
    Registered Users Posts: 10,066 ✭✭✭✭nerd69


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122356387#Comment_122356387

    That would be relevant if it was a sa vs ireland ruck ing conversation players like porter in particular make up for ir because hes unbelievabley good

    I mean ya if we ignore that rucks exist and only look at specific stats mccarthy could be argued as having a better game but its an "would any kiwis make it into thr irish 15" level of blowing smoke up our ass



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    #35196
    Jump_In_Jack
    Registered Users Posts: 3,777 ✭✭✭Jump_In_Jack


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122356282#Comment_122356282

    I think it happened so fast that Murray didn’t know whether to dive at the ball or not, probably hoped for a favourable bounce to come towards him at the last second, someone posted that Murray wasn’t watching and wasn’t interested, well I posted the clip and actually Murray was furthest away out by the centre of the pitch when the ball was kicked and yet got closest to the breaking ball between him Aki and Frawley, he wasn’t caught out looking away at all at any point so it’s clear the blame isn’t with Murray, so it begs the question as to the motivation for making stuff up to blame him.
    Aki was closest yet completely switched off and jogged back so slowly that by the time Murray realised the danger and had to sprint across to cover for Aki not reacting it was too late. Frawley was way back, covering the backfield so no blame on him either.



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    #35197
    FtD v2
    Registered Users Posts: 91 ✭✭FtD v2


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122356382#Comment_122356382

    You either don't watch enough of him play, or you don't know what you're looking at. He's had some massive performances for Leinster this year, entirely independent of his carrying. He's hugely powerful and physical, is an excellent maul defender, and has effected lots of turnovers and steals over the course of the season.

    You show your true colours by your consistent effort to highlight his "deficiencys" (sic), without giving him any credit for the multitude of things he's very very good at.

    I'm done with this pointless circular argument either way.



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    #35198
    AbusesToilets
    Registered Users Posts: 10,350 ✭✭✭✭AbusesToilets


    So we're on to McCarthy having a bad game and Baird being anonymous on the list of entirely unsubstantiated claims around the team



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    #35199
    nerd69
    Registered Users Posts: 10,066 ✭✭✭✭nerd69


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122356428#Comment_122356428

    Your right. Suggesting mccarthys not as rounded as one of the greatest tighthead locks of all time was silly of me. My true colours have been shown ill never make the mistake of questioning anything of an irish players game again apologies



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    #35200
    Podge_irl
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 26,753 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122356329#Comment_122356329

    What a bizarre statement to make. What about etzebeth's performance would have made Lowe not mishandle the last kick off? We in now way struggled against that starting bok pack. Where exactly would he have made a difference to our performance? He was fairly mediocre.

    Arguing whether he or McCarthy were better is a bit ridiculous. It's shades of grey stuff.



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    #35201
    Rugbymad2020
    Registered Users Posts: 336 ✭✭Rugbymad2020


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122356321#Comment_122356321

    u mean the Irish scrum where they didn’t take impact and tried to get away with giving a free kick instead if penalty.u sir have no idea what u talking about



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    #35202
    Jump_In_Jack
    Registered Users Posts: 3,777 ✭✭✭Jump_In_Jack


    McCarthy was ok I thought, except for the penalty for not rolling away, but I thought the ref was duped by De Klerk there somewhat. Can’t remember but I think it resulted in a kick at goal from that penalty which I think they scored.



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    #35203
    awec
    Administrators Posts: 53,762 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    Ireland don't produce many huge men in the pack. McCarthy is a huge man. He brings a level of grunt that most of our other forwards can't match. So many of our forwards are athletes rather than brutes, and you do need a few brutes. A few of our lads I would argue are a bit too nice and a bit too soft, McCarthy gives an edge to the team.

    He is prone to stupid penalties, but that's a consequence of his style of play. He brings a level of dirt that most of our forwards won't bring. He's raw but I think that's part of what works for him.

    It is not a coincidence that James Ryan has found himself dropped to the bench, McCarthy just brings more to the table.

    I would be very slow to drop him, especially against South Africa.



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    #35204
    nerd69
    Registered Users Posts: 10,066 ✭✭✭✭nerd69


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122356455#Comment_122356455

    What does lowes one error have to do with this? He didnt decide the gamr there was 29 other players



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    #35205
    FtD v2
    Registered Users Posts: 91 ✭✭FtD v2


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122356447#Comment_122356447

    You're twisting arguments again and trying to claim something I didn't say - I didn't for a second attempt to claim McCarthy is a better player (or even remotely close to) Eben Etzebeth. I said McCarthy had the arguably more effective game of the two of them on Saturday - that was the statement you originally took exception to, but haven't given anything to support your view.



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    #35206
    FtD v2
    Registered Users Posts: 91 ✭✭FtD v2


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122356461#Comment_122356461

    Not even worth engaging with.



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    #35207
    Clegg
    Registered Users Posts: 17,140 ✭✭✭✭Clegg


    Case closed lads. South Africa investigated themselves and found no wrongdoing.

    Being serious though, they're an awful set up. Having a 'law specialist' give press conferences saying how great they are, just further emboldens them to push their lies in the media.

    https://twitter.com/Murray_Kinsella/status/1810276486106034317?t=lvkAYSNbny9662HW-sSXEQ&s=09



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    #35208
    FtD v2
    Registered Users Posts: 91 ✭✭FtD v2


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122356527#Comment_122356527

    Not even surprised.

    It's evident to anyone who read the report on the Judicial Committee investigation into Rassie Erasmus' misconduct following the Lions tour years ago that Peyper has been doing Rassie's bidding for some time now.



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    #35209
    nerd69
    Registered Users Posts: 10,066 ✭✭✭✭nerd69


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122356503#Comment_122356503

    I didnt say that youve suggested mccarthys a better player though. My entire point has been ebens more rounded and judging who had a better game because something mccarthy specialises in is easier to gets stats for is not really fair



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    #35210
    bilston
    Registered Users Posts: 17,799 ✭✭✭✭bilston


    Nathan Doak and Dave Heffernen joining up with the squad. Feels like a waste of time, but I suppose there is always the danger that Murray/Blade or Kelleher/Herring could pull up in training.

    At least it will be good experience for Doak to get to train with the squad



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    #35211
    FtD v2
    Registered Users Posts: 91 ✭✭FtD v2


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122356527#Comment_122356527

    It's pretty disgraceful that the South Africans are doing this. I thought it was wrong when Peyper took a formal role with them pretty much as soon as he retired from refereeing, but at the time it was presented as he was going to work with the Boks on the training ground to improve their discipline etc.

    When he was hired, this was discussed relatively extensively:

    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121740717#Comment_121740717

    I expressed the view then that the South Africans would use this nefariously to try and pressure and influence referees, and it's pretty much already been borne out here. Because they won at the weekend and got the rub of the green with virtually every significant decision, Jaco, the highly experienced former test referee is out patting them on the head (the same refereeing team who'll referee this coming weekend) and telling them what good little boys they are.

    What would he be saying if SA had lost and had some of the decisions go against them like we had?

    It's completely inappropriate as a former referee that he's doing this formally on behalf of the SA coaching ticket. He's talking and pretending like he's still some sort of neutral arbiter, but his language is a joke:

    "Then it becomes a debate whether it should be a penalty to Ireland because he was touched to the neck. That is debatable," added Peyper ...'

    Debatable? Taking the absolute piss.



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    #35212
    Podge_irl
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 26,753 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122356493#Comment_122356493

    But apparently Etzebeth being on the Irish team instead of the SA team would have meant we would have won? That's a bold statement given there were 29 other players and he was hovering around half way in the performance stakes of the 30



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    #35213
    Podge_irl
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 26,753 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122356470#Comment_122356470

    I still think Ryan is more technically, and frankly physically, effective at both offensive and defensive rucks though. I think McCarthy might have a higher ceiling there, and I agree his brute strength is better in general. but Ryan was the better player in that game for me.



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    #35214
    Podge_irl
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 26,753 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122356617#Comment_122356617

    He is, to all intents and purposes, just another member of the coaching staff and his comments should be given commensurate weight (i.e. none really). I'm sure the reffing teams broadly see it the same way to be honest, because it is incredibly transparent.



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    #35215
    nerd69
    Registered Users Posts: 10,066 ✭✭✭✭nerd69


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122356631#Comment_122356631

    In your opinion he was hovering over half way in performance. The difference being im not pointing out a single moment from etzebeth and saying that would have changed the game



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    #35216
    FtD v2
    Registered Users Posts: 91 ✭✭FtD v2


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122356654#Comment_122356654

    Yeah, I completely get it, and I also get there is next to nothing that can be done to stop it, but it's clearly a slippery slope.

    He's still attempting to present it as if it's from the benefit of his vast refereeing experience, rather than his incredibly partisan, blinkered role in the Springbok coaching booth.



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    #35217
    Foxtrol
    Registered Users Posts: 11,136 ✭✭✭✭Foxtrol


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122356565#Comment_122356565

    Probably has to be done. Good for them to bring out two newer faces to the set-up to give them the experience.



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    #35218
    nerd69
    Registered Users Posts: 10,066 ✭✭✭✭nerd69


    Heffernanais an odd one stewart must be injured



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    #35219
    Podge_irl
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 26,753 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122356673#Comment_122356673

    No, you're saying had he played for Ireland we would have won despite him having no discernable impact for SA.



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    #35220
    nerd69
    Registered Users Posts: 10,066 ✭✭✭✭nerd69


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122356704#Comment_122356704

    Yes ans as i said thats your opinion that he had no discernable impact



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    #35221
    Clo-Clo
    Registered Users Posts: 5,036 ✭✭✭Clo-Clo


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122356382#Comment_122356382

    It's a combination, you seem to have very little experience of watching Big Joe so will leave you to continue on with this ramble.



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