Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

Yeah_Right

irishbucsfan wrote: »

We’ve had this discussion before, but it’s a good reminder of why you can’t just pick on provincial form. The test side is a very different team at a different level and we’ve seen loads of players who have effectively appeared to have their form “reset” as soon as international rugby period comes around. That could be anything from the style of play to confidence to motivation levels, but it’s worth keeping in mind. Doesn’t mean form should be totally ignored either

I agree. Provincial form can be ignored when it comes to veteran internationals. I can think of a dozen examples where regular international players weren't doing much for their club or province yet when they played a test match, they were suddenly world class. The problem with POM since 2018, was that his provincial form and his international form were the same. Crap. Until the last couple of months. He has stepped up to the challenge of his spot being under threat. Leavy coming back has added to that pressure at test level and the rise and form of Coombes and O'Donohughe means he will need to up his game for Munster.

Murray on the other hand still has a way to go. He has improved but I don't think he is the number 1 halfback in the country. There is nothing about his form that says he is definitely better than McGrath, JGP, Cooney, Marmion or even Casey. Murray needs to up his game.

Healy is in a different situation again. His form has slipped. A lot over thelast year or so but there is no real challenger. Kilcoyne is injured, McGrath's form has slipped further and for longer and there is no one else really putting their hand up.

awec

Yeah_Right wrote: »

I agree. Provincial form can be ignored when it comes to veteran internationals. I can think of a dozen examples where regular international players weren't doing much for their club or province yet when they played a test match, they were suddenly world class. The problem with POM since 2018, was that his provincial form and his international form were the same. Crap. Until the last couple of months. He has stepped up to the challenge of his spot being under threat. Leavy coming back has added to that pressure at test level and the rise and form of Coombes and O'Donohughe means he will need to up his game for Munster.

Murray on the other hand still has a way to go. He has improved but I don't think he is the number 1 halfback in the country. There is nothing about his form that says he is definitely better than McGrath, JGP, Cooney, Marmion or even Casey. Murray needs to up his game.

Healy is in a different situation again. His form has slipped. A lot over thelast year or so but there is no real challenger. Kilcoyne is injured, McGrath's form has slipped further and for longer and there is no one else really putting their hand up.

That's Conor greatest scrumhalf of the decade Murray to you, kiwi.

Yeah_Right

awec wrote: »

That's Conor greatest scrumhalf of the decade Murray to you, kiwi.

Decade is nearly over. He's a Has been 😜

ElisaAtWar

It's good to see Steve Thompson and others coming out and talking about dementia. I don't think it needs any medical expert to identify that players in the scrum are physically disfigured from the pressure on the head. You can clearly see that their eardrums are disfigured from the pressure of the scrum. This part of the game needs to stop. The argument for Cian Healy or Killer Kilcoyne is irrelevant. The scrum is painful to watch in the first place and the result of the scrum is based on penalties that nobody understands. So I for one will be happy to see all this gone

On the flip side of that rugby union starts to look like rugby league. Myself, I don't agree with heavies and lightweights in the same team. If the heavies want to be heavy join the sumo wrestlers

Yeah_Right

ElisaAtWar wrote: »

It's good to see Steve Thompson and others coming out and talking about dementia. I don't think it needs any medical expert to identify that players in the scrum are physically disfigured from the pressure on the head. You can clearly see that their eardrums are disfigured from the pressure of the scrum. This part of the game needs to stop. The argument for Cian Healy or Killer Kilcoyne is irrelevant. The scrum is painful to watch in the first place and the result of the scrum is based on penalties that nobody understands. So I for one will be happy to see all this gone

On the flip side of that rugby union starts to look like rugby league. Myself, I don't agree with heavies and lightweights in the same team. If the heavies want to be heavy join the sumo wrestlers

I can honestly say I have never seen anyone's ear drum, disfigured or not.

Jump_In_Jack

The 2nd row pairing by 2023 will not be Ryan and Henderson,
Long way out now, but I’m willing to put the neck out and bet Aherne and Baird will be the 2nd row pairing come the RWC.
Hopefully both fulfil their potential and lift Ireland’s pack to a new level.

Irish Beef

Jump_In_Jack wrote: »

The 2nd row pairing by 2023 will not be Ryan and Henderson,
Long way out now, but I’m willing to put the neck out and bet Aherne and Baird will be the 2nd row pairing come the RWC.
Hopefully both fulfil their potential and lift Ireland’s pack to a new level.

Wouldn't be writing of James Ryan that quickly after only a couple of average games by his high standards. Possibly the captaincy is putting extra pressure on him or maybe he's carrying a slight injury. Regardless we need to be going to a world cup with up to four second rows with nothing between them in terms of selection.

ElisaAtWar

Yeah_Right wrote: »

I can honestly say I have never seen anyone's ear drum, disfigured or not.

Wow

TRC10

Jump_In_Jack wrote: »

The 2nd row pairing by 2023 will not be Ryan and Henderson,
Long way out now, but I’m willing to put the neck out and bet Aherne and Baird will be the 2nd row pairing come the RWC.
Hopefully both fulfil their potential and lift Ireland’s pack to a new level.

I wouldn't write off James Ryan based on a period of poor form. Itoje went through a similar spell at the same stage in his career in 2018 and he came out of it the best lock in the world. Ryan will come out a better player and is definitely worth persisting with.

Buer

Jump_In_Jack wrote: »

The 2nd row pairing by 2023 will not be Ryan and Henderson,
Long way out now, but I’m willing to put the neck out and bet Aherne and Baird will be the 2nd row pairing come the RWC.
Hopefully both fulfil their potential and lift Ireland’s pack to a new level.

Can you provide odds and maximum stake, please?

Jump_In_Jack

Buer wrote: »

Can you provide odds and maximum stake, please?

No

ElisaAtWar

Yeah_Right wrote: »

I can honestly say I have never seen anyone's ear drum, disfigured or not.

What's really worrying about that statement is the fact that people actually agree with your opinion

Former Former Former

ElisaAtWar wrote: »

What's really worrying about that statement is the fact that people actually agree with your opinion

Do you know where the ear drum is?

ElisaAtWar

Former Former Former wrote: »

Do you know where the ear drum is?

I think there is no point in this argument if people refuse to see what's in front of them.

Dog Botherer

ElisaAtWar wrote: »

I think there is no point in this argument if people refuse to see what's in front of them.

a very strong stance to take given your incredibly recent interest in the topic.

Paul Weller

ElisaAtWar wrote: »

I think there is no point in this argument if people refuse to see what's in front of them.

I don't think your eardrum is in front of you?

The Lost Sheep

Jump_In_Jack wrote: »

The 2nd row pairing by 2023 will not be Ryan and Henderson,
Long way out now, but I’m willing to put the neck out and bet Aherne and Baird will be the 2nd row pairing come the RWC.
Hopefully both fulfil their potential and lift Ireland’s pack to a new level.

Probably wont be Ryan and Henderson but ridiculously early to try claim both Ahern and Baird will be the pairing. Both have played feck all pro rugby and have you and others not been calling Ryan world class etc over recent times.

Irish Beef wrote: »

Wouldn't be writing of James Ryan that quickly after only a couple of average games by his high standards. Possibly the captaincy is putting extra pressure on him or maybe he's carrying a slight injury. Regardless we need to be going to a world cup with up to four second rows with nothing between them in terms of selection.

I do think this dip in form for Ryan will do him the world of good. There has been many saying Lions test guarantee etc. When he isnt that yet.

ElisaAtWar wrote: »

It's good to see Steve Thompson and others coming out and talking about dementia. I don't think it needs any medical expert to identify that players in the scrum are physically disfigured from the pressure on the head. You can clearly see that their eardrums are disfigured from the pressure of the scrum. This part of the game needs to stop. The argument for Cian Healy or Killer Kilcoyne is irrelevant. The scrum is painful to watch in the first place and the result of the scrum is based on penalties that nobody understands. So I for one will be happy to see all this gone

On the flip side of that rugby union starts to look like rugby league. Myself, I don't agree with heavies and lightweights in the same team. If the heavies want to be heavy join the sumo wrestlers

That just isnt true. Scrum is far from painful to watch and big claims to make with no proof. Saying nobody understands scrum is completely false.
Dont agree with heavy and light weights on same team? You do know that thats part of the whole ideal around rugby, game for all shape and sizes.

Jump_In_Jack

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

Probably wont be Ryan and Henderson but ridiculously early to try claim both Ahern and Baird will be the pairing. Both have played feck all pro rugby and have you and others not been calling Ryan world class etc over recent times.

I do think this dip in form for Ryan will do him the world of good. There has been many saying Lions test guarantee etc. When he isnt that yet.

That just isnt true. Scrum is far from painful to watch and big claims to make with no proof. Saying nobody understands scrum is completely false.
Dont agree with heavy and light weights on same team? You do know that thats part of the whole ideal around rugby, game for all shape and sizes.

I certainly haven’t called Ryan world class, I’ve never had that opinion.
He’s our version of Johnny Gray.

ElisaAtWar

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

That just isnt true. Scrum is far from painful to watch and big claims to make with no proof. Saying nobody understands scrum is completely false.
Dont agree with heavy and light weights on same team? You do know that thats part of the whole ideal around rugby, game for all shape and sizes.

Grand

Dog Botherer

must be fishing season.

aloooof

ElisaAtWar wrote: »

It's good to see Steve Thompson and others coming out and talking about dementia. I don't think it needs any medical expert to identify that players in the scrum are physically disfigured from the pressure on the head. You can clearly see that their eardrums are disfigured from the pressure of the scrum. This part of the game needs to stop. The argument for Cian Healy or Killer Kilcoyne is irrelevant. The scrum is painful to watch in the first place and the result of the scrum is based on penalties that nobody understands. So I for one will be happy to see all this gone

On the flip side of that rugby union starts to look like rugby league. Myself, I don't agree with heavies and lightweights in the same team. If the heavies want to be heavy join the sumo wrestlers

What has this to do with the Ireland team?

ionadnapokot

Jump_In_Jack wrote: »

I certainly haven’t called Ryan world class, I’ve never had that opinion.
He’s our version of Johnny Gray.

Thats harsh!
But I see where your coming from based on the France and England performances. He was coming back from injury though.
He has also put on a good bit of bulk.

Ryan suffers from the way Ireland use him.
e.g. A ball carrier who is given ball off a slow ruck and sent into contact to try and set another ruck.
Roux/Kleyn should be doing that but they aren't good enough.

siltirocker

ElisaAtWar wrote: »

You can clearly see that their eardrums are disfigured from the pressure of the scrum. This part of the game needs to stop.

The ear drum is not affected by the game of rugby. It is an internal part of your body.

What your are referring to is cauliflower ear. This is a completely aesthetic issue and not painful. It is a build up around cartilage and experienced by friction. It is doing zero damage to the players health and happens frequently not just in rugby, in many sports and in life.

My cousin got one from using the wrong pillow. Anthony Bourdain had them from his exercise judo class.

jacothelad

ElisaAtWar wrote: »

I think there is no point in this argument if people refuse to see what's in front of them.

If your tympanum is in front of you then the medical world will be interested.:D:D:D:D

Buer

With the emergence and form of JOB, Baloucoune, Keenan and Daly, I gotta say the 7s programme is really looking like a great investment.

You really have to give credit to Nucifora where it's due.

awec

Buer wrote: »

With the emergence and form of JOB, Baloucoune, Keenan and Daly, I gotta say the 7s programme is really looking like a great investment.

You really have to give credit to Nucifora where it's due.

Yes three cheers for Nucifora, very good very good.

Buer

awec wrote: »

Yes three cheers for Nucifora, very good very good.

Well deserved. Has he delivered more for Ulster than anyone off the pitch since Harry Williams? Hard to argue against it.

awec

Buer wrote: »

Well deserved. Has he delivered more for Ulster than anyone off the pitch since Harry Williams? Hard to argue against it.

Yes, Ulsters trophy cabinet speaks to his success.

Buer

awec wrote: »

Yes, Ulsters trophy cabinet speaks to his success.

I think we can safely say, he deserves the bulk of credit for any trophies won in the next decade.

Some Yoke

Is the title of the thread going to be changed to " It beirnes, byrnes, burns the ringrose van der flier" or is the genius of the poster who made it wasted upon us?