Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

DGRulz

Wegians89 wrote: »

Just something on Carty that doesn’t seem to have been mentioned. Away to racing and at home to Munster are two games I don’t think Carty gets enough credit for. He made mistakes and missed kicks in both these games but Connacht weren’t far from winning either of those games and it was mainly down to cartys game management.

Connacht had pretty much half a pack for both those games thanks to covid, but they clawed back into the games. Inexperience and poor decisions made by the leaders on both those days let Connacht down and I doubt the likes of Henderson, furlong or James Ryan would make those mistakes. Carty has a spark that can give a team a chance even when they’re playing ****e, could even see it at 6 nations level against wales. He’s the best back up to sexton in my eyes

I'd be very surprised if there was anything about Carty that hadn't been mentioned after the last few weeks.

.ak

Former Former Former wrote: »

His nickname at Leinster is Sex Panther. 50% of the time, he makes his tackle every time.

Tommybojangles

DGRulz wrote: »

I'd be very surprised if there was anything about Carty that hadn't been mentioned after the last few weeks.

In fairness I think he's right, the argument is always that Carty is inconsistent (Which I agree with btw) but the example given recently seems to be
Carty leinster = Good Carty Munster = Bad
whereas in reality he and Marmion did very well to turn the tide and keep Connacht competitive in that game. Someone went into detail on another thread about the end of the game where the forwards had a monumental brainfart at the end and looked like they totally went against the direction of the halfbacks

Zzippy

Louis Friend wrote: »

I don’t thing the phrase “utterly objectionable” qualifies as “very nasty” in this day and age.

This is a rugby forum. Keep the discussion to rugby, not needless jibes about someone's personality that say a lot more about you than the person concerned.

Louis Friend

Zzippy wrote: »

This is a rugby forum. Keep the discussion to rugby, not needless jibes about someone's personality that say a lot more about you than the person concerned.

I find your post quite offensive and would like an apology please.

His personality is very relevant in a job that’s as much about man management as it is about technical know-how.

Zzippy

Louis Friend wrote: »

I find your post quite offensive and would like an apology please.

When a moderator types in bold, that is a mod action, in this case an on-thread warning. We don't need to hear your opinion of ROG as a person, this is a rugby forum, stick to the rugby. Feel free to discuss his coaching abilities all you like. And next time you wish to dispute a mod action or warning, DO NOT do it in the thread.

theVersatile

So....

Moving onto the important stuff.

When do we change the thread name to "It Byrnes, Beirnes, Burns - Ringrose of Fire"?

OneLungDavy

Louis Friend wrote: »

I find your post quite offensive and would like an apology please.

His personality is very relevant in a job that’s as much about man management as it is about technical know-how.

Apology :pac:
Then discuss his man-management skills. The 30 minutes you see of him every week isn't much insight into how he treats his players.

Quantum Baloney

theVersatile wrote: »

So....

Moving onto the important stuff.

When do we change the thread name to "It Byrnes, Beirnes, Burns - Ringrose of Fire"?

You friggin Genius

CowboyTed

Paul Smeenus wrote: »

I will say this - I was extremely sceptical about POC being involved in the coaching set-up.

There has been a marked improvement this Six Nations in our lineout and our scrum - I don't know if he is directly responsible for the former, but Occam's razor would suggest he is, and if so, it has proven a smart, savvy decision.

I still think there's a nonsense conflation of the idea that someone's a good player and capable of being a good coach, band I thought POC joining the team was more or less a canny PR move.

There were real systemic issues with the lineout previously, and if we get those ironed out, that's great news. Herring has been unconvincing about the pitch this 6N, and if a good, functioning lineout allows us to transition Kelleher in, so much the better. His try was off a picked-off throw, so still not sure his basics are there yet. But there's no chance for him to improve if the whole set-up is a mess.

As for POC... I am pretty sure that POC wouldn't have played a Prop on his wrong side against Georgia and then drop him. So we have to see this as progression... Small wins...

By the way Shane Delhunt is the best hooker in Ireland at the moment....

Clegg

It's been talked about in the Leinster thread, but bears repeating here.

Doris will be unavailable for the foreseeable future. He's experiencing concussion like symptoms so they'll treat this with a lot of care.

https://twitter.com/Murray_Kinsella/status/1362392824566661121?s=09

CowboyTed

Wegians89 wrote: »

Just something on Carty that doesn’t seem to have been mentioned. Away to racing and at home to Munster are two games I don’t think Carty gets enough credit for. He made mistakes and missed kicks in both these games but Connacht weren’t far from winning either of those games and it was mainly down to cartys game management.

Connacht had pretty much half a pack for both those games thanks to covid, but they clawed back into the games. Inexperience and poor decisions made by the leaders on both those days let Connacht down and I doubt the likes of Henderson, furlong or James Ryan would make those mistakes. Carty has a spark that can give a team a chance even when they’re playing ****e, could even see it at 6 nations level against wales. He’s the best back up to sexton in my eyes

I think that is best thing you can say about Carty...

Carty doesn't play behind a Blue Juggernaut... His side wins and looses all over the field and he has to make heads up decisions on the key to unlock...

People comment on his consistency, it is actually about risk, he has to take them to win... sometime it works , sometimes it doesn't...

Compare that to a Leinster outhalf playing in Pro 14, they expect a stable dominant platform to play off and generally they get it...

CowboyTed

CowboyTed wrote: »

I think that is best thing you can say about Carty...

Carty doesn't play behind a Blue Juggernaut... His side wins and looses all over the field and he has to make heads up decisions on the key to unlock...

People comment on his consistency, it is actually about risk, he has to take them to win... sometime it works , sometimes it doesn't...

Compare that to a Leinster outhalf playing in Pro 14, they expect a stable dominant platform to play off and generally they get it...

particularly in those few games like Harry Byrne has started so far for Leinster

it has to be said that that standard of game with an easy ride for the 10 is providing very if any little development towards being able to handle the intensity and opponent line-speed of a test match in terms of developing and proving top-level decision-making and execution of same

bilston

Clegg wrote: »

It's been talked about in the Leinster thread, but bears repeating here.

Doris will be unavailable for the foreseeable future. He's experiencing concussion like symptoms so they'll treat this with a lot of care.

https://twitter.com/Murray_Kinsella/status/1362392824566661121?s=09

Big blow for him personally, but a huge blow for Ireland. We miss him in the back row big time.

bilston

bilston wrote: »

Big blow for him personally, but a huge blow for Ireland. We miss him in the back row big time.

a loss sure but not as much as the loss of an attacking back-line threat.

hopefully it's not a 1-off but the pack functioned well overall against France

bayern

glasso wrote: »

particularly in those few games like Harry Byrne has started so far for Leinster

it has to be said that that standard of game with an easy ride for the 10 is providing very if any little development towards being able to handle the intensity and opponent line-speed of a test match in terms of developing and proving top-level decision-making and execution of same

you clearly don't watch the pro 14 and don't rate it.. so stop pretending you know what sort of games Harry Byrne has played in.

bayern

bayern wrote: »

you clearly don't watch the pro 14 and don't rate it.. so stop pretending you know what sort of games Harry Byrne has played in.

go on then, list out from memory the competitive pro 14 fixtures that he has played in then please.... with a focus on starts not sub appearances

of course it's quite easy to find this out of course and get the scores, starter vs sub etc

https://all.rugby/player/harry-byrne

most of his starts have come in very one-sided games

pure delusion if you don't accept that

he's basically playing in exhibition games


H Byrne Pro 14 starts this season (home team listed first)


L 63 - Zebre 8

Glasgow 19 - L 32

Ospreys 7 - L 26

L 50 - Edinburgh 10

L 40 - Cardiff 5

Scarlets 25 - L 52

TRC10

glasso wrote: »

of course it's quite easy to find this out of course and get the scores, starter vs sub etc

https://all.rugby/player/harry-byrne

most of his starts have come in very one-sided games

pure delusion if you don't accept that

he's basically playing in exhibition games


H Byrne Pro 14 starts this season (home team listed first)


L 63 - Zebre 8

Glasgow 19 - L 32

Ospreys 7 - L 26

L 50 - Edinburgh 10

L 40 - Cardiff 5

Scarlets 25 - L 52

So Harry Byrne shouldn't get picked because he plays for a good team?

Harry Byrne was excellent in all of those games, maybe he has something to do with why Leinster are winning by so much.

If you don't think Harry Byrne is good enough to play 20 minutes v Italy, I don't know what to tell you.

TRC10

TRC10 wrote: »

So Harry Byrne shouldn't get picked because he plays for a good team?

Harry Byrne was excellent in all of those games, maybe he has something to do with why Leinster are winning by so much.

If you don't think Harry Byrne is good enough to play 20 minutes v Italy, I don't know what to tell you.

I'm not saying that.

I'm only saying that he has not gotten / is not getting good development for his position (10 needs game time and game time in competitive and intense games) and for his age.

I'd love to see him vs Italy but a hopefully good performance (even though it's Italy) there would be in spite of, not because of, his previous match experience.

I'd love to see him get a chance, knock it out of the park and stake a claim.

But it's obvious that he'd have a much better chance of starting / getting time if he'd been involved in more serious games.

bayern

yeah he'd be better off playing in england or france rather than playing for Leinster.

any good performances he puts in is either due to poor competition or in spite of his time developing with leinster. :rolleyes:

it's just a pity that a promising 10's development has been effectively stunted in comparison to other 10's who have had much better development experience and gone on to be developed more and achieve more for the same age profile.

bayern

Yeah Leinster have mismanaged and failed to develop Harry Byrne. He'd have been better off playing in the premiership immediately upon leaving school.

bayern

bayern wrote: »

Yeah Leinster have mismanaged and failed to develop Harry Byrne. He'd have been better off playing in the premiership immediately upon leaving school.

seriously.


they obviously haven't been able to develop him to his full potential as he simply hasn't gotten the opportunities with Sexton and his Byrne ahead of him in the pecking order

Then you have Frawley who some say could be a better 10 than centre but that opportunity to find out is not going to come at Leinster.

you'd swear Leinster never put a foot wrong.

bayern

why even have provinces? sure all the players would be better off playing in england and france.

bayern

bayern wrote: »

why even have provinces? sure all the players would be better off playing in england and france.

this level of post is not even worth engaging with.

patently obvious that Byrne should be ahead of where he is development-wise.

bayern

Yeah the provinces are actually a barrier to player development, they'd all be better off playing for english clubs from as early an age as possible.

sure what are they ever going to learn playing for leinster?

any leinster player who has made the step up to international level have done it in spite of the coaching he gets day in day out at the province.

since Sexton Leinster has NOT developed a single 9 or 10 that has gone on to be consistent International standard.

that's over a decade

so they simply don't have a history of it

so you can't say they are much good in that department

you are what you do...

It's a very different development proposition for a 10 (and 9 to a lesser extent) compared to a back-row or winger due to game management experience required and at the correct level of intensity and competition.

sydthebeat

Again

People seem to have a serious lack of understanding that there can only be one Irish test 10 at any point in time.

sydthebeat

sydthebeat wrote: »

Again

People seem to have a serious lack of understanding that there can only be one Irish test 10 at any point in time.

What has that got to do with not developing one international standard 9 or 10 in over a decade?

being so good at development and all.