Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

bayern

glasso wrote: »

since Sexton Leinster has NOT developed a single 9 or 10 that has gone on to be consistent International standard.

that's over a decade

so they simply don't have a history of it

so you can't say they are much good in that department

you are what you do...

It's a very different development proposition for a 10 (and 9 to a lesser extent) compared to a back-row or winger due to game management experience required and at the correct level of intensity and competition.

The province is clearly not fit for purpose and should be disbanded.

Get a good English coach to look after Harry Byrne, anyone know any decent ones with a record of developing young players who may be available?

Irish Beef

This is a Ridiculous argument, the chap is 21 and has 18 caps already, hes had a few injury's as well. What do you expect the leinster pack to do? Play half-heartedly to help FastTrack Harrys development.

bayern

Irish Beef wrote: »

This is a Ridiculous argument, the chap is 21 and has 18 caps already, hes had a few injury's as well. What do you expect the leinster pack to do? Play half-heartedly to help FastTrack Harrys development.

No leinster clearly have held him back and prevented him from reaching his potential. If he was English he'd be a front runner for the lions 10 jersey.

sydthebeat

glasso wrote: »

What has that got to do with not developing one international standard 9 or 10 in over a decade?

being so good at development and all.

So while leinster have the undisputed no 10 for Ireland for the last decade, it's Leinsters problem they haven't produced the next Irish 10??

Think about that for a minute.

And disregard the fact that in the meantime we've had keatley, Madigan, mckinley, carbery, r Byrne and now h Byrne all come through the leinster system.

thomond2006

Ah here.

Irish Beef

Irish Beef wrote: »

This is a Ridiculous argument, the chap is 21 and has 18 caps already, hes had a few injury's as well. What do you expect the leinster pack to do? Play half-heartedly to help FastTrack Harrys development.

Look, I'm leaving it here - he could and should be further ahead

Several other (not just one in 20 year freak talents) 10's of the same age are currently operating in Europe right now who have had much more development opportunity and have benefitted from that

It's not an affront on Leinster overall

Those years in the early 20's are when a player has most the dynamic athleticism and it doesn't last long but is lovely to see on a pitch when the potential has been realised

thomond2006

Harry Byrne has been ruined by Leinster already. Sad to see. Just release the poor lad.

sydthebeat

thomond2006 wrote: »

Harry Byrne has been ruined by Leinster already. Sad to see. Just release the poor lad.

Well connacht don't want him, and munster and Ulster already have leinster 10's

thomond2006

sydthebeat wrote: »

Well connacht don't want him, and munster and Ulster already have leinster 10's

We've broken one and I'm sure Leinster accept returns because they're a great bunch of lads.

bayern

glasso wrote: »

It's not an affront on Leinster overall

Well that's not true.. you said the province is incapable of developing an international 9 or 10 and have prevented Harry Byrne from progressing and reaching his potential to be an intl level 10 at 21.

Leinster have won, what, 6 all ireland's in a row? They need to split up. Another professional team but would be a great boon.

Louis Friend

Harry Byrne should go to Ulster. Ship Burns out and have Madigan as Byrne’s understudy.

bayern

Louis Friend wrote: »

Harry Byrne should go to Ulster. Ship Burns out and have Madigan as Byrne’s understudy.

Ulster rugby's record of developing international levels 10s is second to none.

Except of course any English or French club who are inherently better.

Tommybojangles

Forget all of them, the 3rd Byrne brother, Barry, took such a great line out of the womb he's now in line to start against Italy. Of course if he was French he would have been at the world cup

bilston

glasso wrote: »

a loss sure but not as much as the loss of an attacking back-line threat.

hopefully it's not a 1-off but the pack functioned well overall against France

Doris brings something different to the back row...he uses his feet and frees his hands...he's a class act.

thegreycity

It’s been an incredibly fast fall from grace for young Harry Byrne. From too good for the Pro14 to a wasted talent in the space of a week or so.

bayern

All the pro14s fault too.

stephen_n

glasso wrote: »

since Sexton Leinster has NOT developed a single 9 or 10 that has gone on to be consistent International standard.

that's over a decade

so they simply don't have a history of it

so you can't say they are much good in that department

you are what you do...

It's a very different development proposition for a 10 (and 9 to a lesser extent) compared to a back-row or winger due to game management experience required and at the correct level of intensity and competition.

Funnily enough since Sexton no province has produced a 10 good enough to be a regular international. Apart from Ulster and oh Leinster but that ones currently injured down in Munster.

thegreycity

thegreycity wrote: »

It’s been an incredibly fast fall from grace for young Harry Byrne. From too good for the Pro14 to a wasted talent in the space of a week or so.

I think that I made some valid points and certainly not against Harry Byrne, far from it.

I don't think that any young 10 with ambition would want to be stuck behind his brother (awkward) and a selfish old warhorse in a club, vying for games in a flat-track bully (for Leinster) league.

hope he gets a chance against Italy and nails it.

stephen_n

glasso wrote: »

a loss sure but not as much as the loss of an attacking back-line threat.

hopefully it's not a 1-off but the pack functioned well overall against France

The pack didn’t function well in attack, that’s our biggest problem. In every other aspect of the game they were excellent. The meters carried by the pack was extremely poor and is really hampering our attacking play.

bayern

glasso wrote: »

I think that I made some valid points and certainly not against Harry Byrne, far from it.

I don't think that any young 10 with ambition would want to be stuck behind his brother (awkward) and a selfish old warhorse in a club, vying for games in a flat-track bully (for Leinster) league.

hope he gets a chance against Italy and nails it.

So Harry doesn't have any ambition?

Of course if he does nail it, it will be in spite of leinster and the coaching he has received from the province.

bayern

bayern wrote: »

So Harry doesn't have any ambition?

Of course if he does nail it, it will be in spite of leinster and the coaching he has received from the province.

more 9 than 10 I'm guessing?

sydthebeat

glasso wrote: »

more 9 than 10 I'm guessing?

Its obvious you're guessing

sydthebeat

sydthebeat wrote: »

Its obvious you're guessing

whoosh!

swiwi_

The Armchair Ride

- starring Craig Casey & Harry Byrne

Hawwy. Hawwy is wot bwings us togeder today. Hawwy and Cwaig, that bwessed awangement, that team wifin a team. And forum wuv, tru wuv, will fowow you foweva.

bayern

Leo

“Like any 21-year-old coming into the squad or team, there’s so many things to work on all the time, in terms of game management, from the physical point of view to set them up to succeed in the long term.

“It’s not just about throwing a 21-year-old in there and, yeah, he plays well for a season and the following season he has this big fall off a cliff because certain things – physical, tactical, whatever it is – have just been sort of glossed over and don’t get addressed properly.”

Yeah_Right

I think the only option for Harry Byrne is to head to NZ and push for a Super Rugby contract. With Beauden Barrett off collecting his retirement fund in Japan, there is an opening there at the Blues. I think there was a poster a few days ago comparing Byrne to BB :eek: It is destiny.
The question is, could Byrne push past Black, Perofeta and Plummer? Maybe.

Farrell computer says no for Italy

Doesn't have enough experience

https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/international/six-nations-andy-farrell-wary-of-blooding-young-ireland-players-in-italy-1.4488920

Six Nations: Andy Farrell wary of ‘blooding’ young Ireland players in Italy

“We’ve watched the Italian side, they’re playing some good rugby, as they proved last week at Twickenham. They caused all sorts of trouble. If you don’t respect the game in general, you can come unstuck. A couple of times, teams have tried to approach the game a little differently and have really come unstuck against Italy and that’s in the recent past as well.”

Farrell fears for his job and the wooden spoon obviously more than anything else

Italy who last won a six nations match six years ago

Such ambition

theVersatile

There's no shame in going full strength vs Italy. Just look at England last week

VANG1

And France.