Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

TRC10

.ak wrote: »

Lam has a history of taking a while to bed into a team. And that's with a club he'd be working with 40 odd hours a week with...

He has a history of being a successful head coach, which is more than can be said for Farrell.

It wouldn't take him as long to bed into the Ireland team than it did with Connacht or Bristol given the amount of world class players he'd have with Ireland that he didn't have with them.

Vinnie222

TRC10 wrote: »

He has a history of being a successful head coach, which is more than can be said for Farrell.

It wouldn't take him as long to bed into the Ireland team than it did with Connacht or Bristol given the amount of world class players he'd have with Ireland that he didn't have with them.

World class players?

TRC10

Vinnie222 wrote: »

World class players?

Tadhg Furlong
James Ryan
John Cooney
Robbie Henshaw
Garry Ringrose

vetinari

I can see Cullen being the obvious next coach of Ireland. I hope Farrell turns it around but it hasn't looked great so far. We seem to play a very boring kick heavy style at times and it's not been that effective.

Podge_irl

vetinari wrote: »

I can see Cullen being the obvious next coach of Ireland. I hope Farrell turns it around but it hasn't looked great so far. We seem to play a very boring kick heavy style at times and it's not been that effective.

Pretty sure we have the lowest kicking per possession percentage of all teams.

Egan2012

Squidgy Black wrote: »

Think the main names who's contracts are up soon are:

Stander, Henderson, Sexton, Earls, POM, Furlong, Healy

Do you think Sexton is worth another contract now ? Is it time to bite the bullet and give the youngsters the chance even if this means not challenging for titles for a few years? Would it be better in the long run ? Sextons injuries are just 1 after another now. Not reliable to finish a game.

Tommybojangles

TRC10 wrote: »

Tadhg Furlong
James Ryan
John Cooney (!!!!)
Robbie Henshaw
Garry Ringrose

Woah you had us going for a second there!

cantwbr1

TRC10 wrote: »

Personally, Pat Lam is the best choice without question. But I read somewhere that he's on 800k at Bristol and I highly doubt the union could afford that. I'm not saying we should fire Farrell btw.

It took Pat Lam 3 years in both Connacht and Bristol to get his teams performing. That’s with total access. How long would it take with about <20 weeks access in the year

molloyjh

TRC10 wrote: »

He has a history of being a successful head coach, which is more than can be said for Farrell.

Has he? He had 1 good year with Connacht in the middle of bottom half of the table finishes and has a vastly superior squad to basically all of his competition at Bristol. That's not something he'd enjoy at Ireland. As others have pointed out, he also has a history of taking time to bed in despite being there week in, week out. Another thing he won't enjoy with Ireland. And the season or two he'd need to settle in is def something many Irish fans wouldn't have the patience for. Farrell being a case in point.

sydthebeat

TRC10 wrote: »

He has a history of being a successful head coach, which is more than can be said for Farrell.
.

outside of new zealand he may have that reputation...

inside, not so much.

less said about his time at the blues the better.

he has an ethos about playing that needs time to develop... and he has ALWAYS gone to the market to buy players who can play his system

he does not have that opportunity with a national team.

as much as im an admirer of him as a man, his coaching style and his playing style... theres simply zero evidence that he would make a successful international coach

TRC10

molloyjh wrote: »

Has he? He had 1 good year with Connacht in the middle of bottom half of the table finishes and has a vastly superior squad to basically all of his competition at Bristol. That's not something he'd enjoy at Ireland. As others have pointed out, he also has a history of taking time to bed in despite being there week in, week out. Another thing he won't enjoy with Ireland. And the season or two he'd need to settle in is def something many Irish fans wouldn't have the patience for. Farrell being a case in point.

First season at Bristol he got promoted up to the premiership. They came 9th in his first season in the Prem. 2nd season they came 3rd (behind Wasps and Exter). And now they're at top ahead of the European champs Exeter with a game in hand. He also won a Challenge Cup last season. So yes he's done a pretty good job with Bristol.

He won a Pro12 with Connacht which makes him one of the greatest coaches to ever grace these shores. Added to that he plays a fantastic brand of rugby that most people here are crying out for.

Bazzo

molloyjh wrote: »

Has he? He had 1 good year with Connacht in the middle of bottom half of the table finishes and has a vastly superior squad to basically all of his competition at Bristol. That's not something he'd enjoy at Ireland. As others have pointed out, he also has a history of taking time to bed in despite being there week in, week out. Another thing he won't enjoy with Ireland. And the season or two he'd need to settle in is def something many Irish fans wouldn't have the patience for. Farrell being a case in point.

Wash your mouth(uh... Fingers?) with soap

Pat Lam fundamentally changed the culture of Connacht rugby and is a big reason it is where it is today.

OneLungDavy

TRC10 wrote: »

Tadhg Furlong
James Ryan
John Cooney
Robbie Henshaw
Garry Ringrose

Harry Byrne.

Burkie1203

clsmooth wrote: »

France are the only team who seem to have got it together but they weren’t exactly impressive against a severely weakened Irish team and have come from a relatively low base (for them). History suggests that they were always going to improve at some stage. Having arguably the best 9 in the world also helps.

This French team has been developing year on year for the last few now. Coming to Dublin and winning for first time in 10 years when they played poorly is another box ticked. They won't be able to play the way they want to always and finding a win away from home in that manner is impressive in its own way.


Kilcoyne kelleher furlong henderson Beirne ruddock vdf Coombes casey R.Byrne daly henshaw ringrose larmour keenan

(Bench herring Byrne Porter dillane connors JGP burns conway)

Are we really at a point where that team couldn't be expected to deliver a bonus point win v Italy ?


Do we really need to send Earls sexton Murray healy stander (pom if not banned), Ryan (head injury so give him an extra week or 2)

We need to get out of this cycle of either sticking with a winning team or giving an underperforming team far too long to rediscover form.

TRC10

Burkie1203 wrote: »

Do we really need to send Earls sexton Murray healy stander (pom if not banned), Ryan (head injury so give him an extra week or 2)

The sad reality is we do. We haven't beaten a top team in 3 years and we're just doing the same thing with the same players and same coach over and over again.

Niallof9

molloyjh wrote: »

Has he? He had 1 good year with Connacht in the middle of bottom half of the table finishes and has a vastly superior squad to basically all of his competition at Bristol. That's not something he'd enjoy at Ireland. As others have pointed out, he also has a history of taking time to bed in despite being there week in, week out. Another thing he won't enjoy with Ireland. And the season or two he'd need to settle in is def something many Irish fans wouldn't have the patience for. Farrell being a case in point.

When AF has won the pro 14 with the least fancied side come back and talk. Also people might then cut him more slack.

What can you say in reply to stuff like this?

Anyway i think Leo has earned the shot, with direct IRFU input into building a French like team of coaches. The reality atm is that we have a weaker set of coaches with Ireland than provincially. This is a **** up no doubt.

My personal choice would be Pat Lam but when was the last time the IRFU went outside. "smartest guys in the room" and all. infallible IRFU

Niallof9

its_phil wrote: »

Please don’t compare Ian Madigan to David Humphreys. Madigan couldn’t touch Humphreys for quality delivered over a career.

In terms of flakiness. I loved Humphries as a player. He was absolutely dicked over in an Irish context. But he's not a once in a generation player, thats the point.

Clegg

Joe Schmidt is the best coach Ireland has ever had and even he couldn't get us playing like his Leinster sides of 2010-2013.

Pat Lam has a style of rugby which is great to watch when everything goes right. But it takes constant repetition in training and plenty of matches to get it right. You don't have that luxury in test rugby. We wouldn't have success playing that way imo.

That isn't to say we shouldn't attempt to play more expansively. There's certainly scope for that. It's just that I don't think we should expect to see the same degree of fluidity in play as you'd see from a club/provincial side. Players just don't have enough time together to reach that.

Niallof9

Clegg wrote: »

Joe Schmidt is the best coach Ireland has ever had and even he couldn't get us playing like his Leinster sides of 2010-2013.

Pat Lam has a style of rugby which is great to watch when everything goes right. But it takes constant repetition in training and plenty of matches to get it right. You don't have that luxury in test rugby. We wouldn't have success playing that way imo.

That isn't to say we shouldn't attempt to play more expansively. There's certainly scope for that. It's just that I don't think we should expect to see the same degree of fluidity in play as you'd see from a club/provincial side. Players just don't have enough time together to reach that.

but thats not the point its arguable we have weaker coaches with the national team than provincially. this should never be the case. we can pretend all we want Af was coveted and courted, but this is his first head gig and he failed with England and players didn't bat an eyelid at his loss.

Anyway i'm as certain an atheist as i am that AF will be out the door by next year. I'd bet my house on it. this is Brian Ashton levels of English failure. An absolute disaster of an appointment.

irishbucsfan

Pat Lam struggled massively when he arrived at Connacht, it took an age to get it right. He would never be given enough time to impose that style at international level.

In reality, the people calling for him here would be the first to call for his head, absolutely certainly.

Farrell will be around a while yet anyway, without doubt. They're not going to terminate a coach during a global pandemic.

Niallof9

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Pat Lam struggled massively when he arrived at Connacht, it took an age to get it right. He would never be given enough time to impose that style at international level.

In reality, the people calling for him here would be the first to call for his head, absolutely certainly.

Farrell will be around a while yet anyway, without doubt. They're not going to terminate a coach during a global pandemic.

absolute nonsense on three counts. an age, my arse. Connacht were a joke for a near decade. Connacht fans should fund a statue for Lam, and irish rugby is a joke for how dismissive it is of his influence.

People are willing to give time IF there is a discernible plan etc. there's **** all plan here. Lose to Italy and he's sacked. Struggle to a win in 2 matches and get hammered by England, there's a strong chance he's sacked.

IBF consistently wrong going on years

Louis Friend

Niallof9 wrote: »

but thats not the point its arguable we have weaker coaches with the national team than provincially. this should never be the case. we can pretend all we want Af was coveted and courted, but this is his first head gig and he failed with England and players didn't bat an eyelid at his loss.

Anyway i'm as certain an atheist as i am that AF will be out the door by next year. I'd bet my house on it. this is Brian Ashton levels of English failure. An absolute disaster of an appointment.

Absolute hyperbole. Brian Ashton

Farrell is doing a good job and we’ll be okay. We should’ve beaten Wales and France are the best side in Europe.

irishbucsfan

Niallof9 wrote: »

absolute nonsense on three counts. an age, my arse. Connacht were a joke for a near decade.

People are willing to give time IF there is a discernible plan etc.

If it wasn't for the Italian teams Connacht would have finished last in his first sesason.

You'd be squealing and demanding he's replaced by the end of his first year with Ireland

molloyjh

irishbucsfan wrote: »

In reality, the people calling for him here would be the first to call for his head, absolutely certainly.

This.

Niallof9

nah. Lam was a hero. would give him 3 years carte blanche.

Its hilarious people comparing AF with all our past coaches. absolutely gas.

He's done absolutely nothing as a head coach. fact

Farrell will go down as another Ashton. an interloper and a complete failure. as much as they love him, i think tactically the players already know.

irishbucsfan

Niallof9 wrote: »

nah. Lam was a hero. would give him 3 years carte blanche.

Its hilarious people comparing AF with all our past coaches. absolutely gas.

He's done absolutely nothing as a head coach. fact

Farrell will go down as another Ashton. an interloper and a complete failure.

Haha, you're calling Farrell a disaster of an appointment not even half way through his second 6 Nations, and you expect us to believe you'd have the patience to give Lam 3 years to get it right. :pac:

Niallof9

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Haha, you're calling Farrell a disaster of an appointment not even half way through his second 6 Nations, and you expect us to believe you'd have the patience to give Lam 3 years to get it right. :pac:

i look forward to saying i told you so quite soon.

jesus, are you actually a Connacht fan?

Christ i remember reading the same schtick years ago with you. is it just whoever coaches Ireland = infallible.

Af will not be a success with Ireland. this will be a fact soon enough i imagine.

I'm actually thinking, having heard enough criticism around the place, that he could get the boot if he loses to Scotland.

He didn't do anything to earn the position, and he has no connection to Irish rugby, i'm struggling to see why some are willing to be so defensive.

irishbucsfan

Niallof9 wrote: »

i look forward to saying i told you so quite soon.

jesus, are you actually a Connacht fan?

Christ i remember reading the same schtick years ago with you. is it just whoever coaches Ireland = infallible.

Af will not be a success with Ireland. this will be a fact soon enough i imagine.

I'm actually thinking, having heard enough criticism around the place, that he could get the boot if he loses to Scotland.

He didn't do anything to earn the position, and he has no connection to Irish rugby, i'm struggling to see why some are willing to be so defensive.

I never said anyone is infallible. I'm not defending Farrell at all here. I'm criticising you. It's very easy stuff.

Niallof9

irishbucsfan wrote: »

I never said anyone is infallible. I'm not defending Farrell at all here. I'm criticising you. It's very easy stuff.

ha good one, saids the lad who's been consistently wrong since God knows when. you are defending him through your whataboutery and Lam stuff.

and you have the balls to poke fun at others. hilarious really.

anyway i'm actually very confident AF will be sacked or walk as Irish coach. its a disaster of an appointment and has wrong place, wrong time written all over it. so look there's no point continuing this argument.

TRC10

In other news, Farrell calls up Billy Holland for the Italy game