Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

irishbucsfan

Niallof9 wrote: »

ha good one, saids the lad who's been consistently wrong since God knows when. you are defending him through your whataboutery and Lam stuff.

and you have the balls to poke fun at others. hilarious really.

Can you possibly acknowledge how moronic it is to defend your position on Lam being totally inconsistent with your position on previous head coaches by claiming I'm engaging in "whataboutery" (with no examples), in the same post as you basically say 'what about you being wrong' (with no examples).

Niallof9

Louis Friend wrote: »

Absolute hyperbole. Brian Ashton

Farrell is doing a good job and we’ll be okay. We should’ve beaten Wales and France are the best side in Europe.

:pac: good job. ah yeah.

and you say i'm speaking hyperbole?

Burkie1203

TRC10 wrote: »

The sad reality is we do. We haven't beaten a top team in 3 years and we're just doing the same thing with the same players and same coach over and over again.

And therein lies the problem.

AF won't make the next RWC unless he is prepared to grow a pair and give guys a chance. A proper chance. And risk the odd setback.

Niallof9

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Can you possibly acknowledge how moronic it is to defend your position on Lam being totally inconsistent with your position on previous head coaches by claiming I'm engaging in "whataboutery" (with no examples), in the same post as you basically say 'what about you being wrong' (with no examples).

no, i would give Lam time. he speaks sense on the game. he's one of Irish rugbys most successful coaches, historically speaking. and that would 100 per cent buy him time. can you spot the difference with farrell there?

Farrell has no experience, no connection, with Irish rugby.

can people accept its not working, and was the wrong appointment?

i've been reading and arguing with you since time immemorial here. you've been consistently wrong on so many things and so many postions. along with some of the usual crowd. you'd think it would make you be a bit more reticent to be so confident in your postions.

Lam won;t be Irish coach cause of the usual bull**** around the game here. the same ****e you perpetuate. the same self serving, team of us nauseating ****e that we push. in this argument, Lam would take years. yes cause Af's game plan is so succinct etc. ffs

i actually need to stop doing this.

i sometimes can;t believe the same guys on here are pushing the same ****e they did since EOS's time.

molloyjh

irishbucsfan wrote: »

I never said anyone is infallible. I'm not defending Farrell at all here. I'm criticising you. It's very easy stuff.

Oh yippee the infallible strawman again. A clear sign of a waste of time.....

irishbucsfan

Pat Lam had one good season with Connacht. The following season they regressed again. They finished above 7th once and did nothing much in Europe.

It was an incredible achievement to win the Pro 14 and he brought the squad on for sure both on and off the field, but to call him one of Irish rugby's most successful coaches based on one successful season is a massive stretch.

Niallof9

molloyjh wrote: »

Oh yippee the infallible strawman again. A clear sign of a waste of time.....

I know right, he's been at it what ten years.

Funnily enough, so have you.

Niallof9

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Pat Lam had one good season with Connacht. The following season they regressed again. They finished above 7th once and did nothing much in Europe.

It was an incredible achievement to win the Pro 14 and he brought the squad on for sure both on and off the field, but to call him one of Irish rugby's most successful coaches based on one successful season is a massive stretch.

its as much a stretch to say Af is doing a "good job" (not saying you said)

It was one of Irish rugbys greatest achievements. hence my actual questioning of your fanship, i presume Buccs etc. I mean look if we're so willing to dismiss the pro 14 as many on here are, we might as well chuck it all in. hence my criticism of Irish rugby and the culture a few pages back. Vitriol supposedly? yeah right. actually isn't that who said it, lol.

i dunno sometimes i wonder is this forum a big joke and a few of us on here aren't in on it. the vast majority of the "lifers" on here have been consistently proven wrong, going back years. years. please take some time to reflect upon your own views

aloof loves gong back in time. i don't think he's a lifer. maybe he could collate a scrapbook of the years. i'd say IBF would have some douzzies.

Lost Ormond

Niallof9 wrote: »

no, i would give Lam time. he speaks sense on the game. he's one of Irish rugbys most successful coaches, historically speaking. and that would 100 per cent buy him time. can you spot the difference with farrell there?

Farrell has no experience, no connection, with Irish rugby.

can people accept its not working, and was the wrong appointment?

i've been reading and arguing with you since time immemorial here. you've been consistently wrong on so many things and so many postions. along with some of the usual crowd. you'd think it would make you be a bit more reticent to be so confident in your postions.

Lam won;t be Irish coach cause of the usual bull**** around the game here. the same ****e you perpetuate. the same self serving, team of us nauseating ****e that we push. in this argument, Lam would take years. yes cause Af's game plan is so succinct etc. ffs

i actually need to stop doing this.

i sometimes can;t believe the same guys on here are pushing the same ****e they did since EOS's time.

Lam suits being with players day in day out and is all about building a culture/environment that is impossible with international rugby. Lams very good season that won the league was the culmination of 3 years work and it took quite some time for there to be that success.
Farrell has more than enough connection, experience to work with Irish Rugby. Hindsight is fantastic and he may not work out but there wasnt many(any?) other real alternatives.

thomond2006

Moan moan moan moan moan

If the Ireland team upsets some of ye so much, don't watch. Don't engage. Go for a walk. Better still, get a dog and bring the dog for a walk. They're wonderful animals. They'll make you happy.

Niallof9

thomond2006 wrote: »

Moan moan moan moan moan

If the Ireland team upsets some of ye so much, don't watch. Don't engage. Go for a walk. Better still, get a dog and bring the dog for a walk. They're wonderful animals. They'll make you happy.

good one.

theVersatile

TRC10 wrote: »

In other news, Farrell calls up Billy Holland for the Italy game

God I would love to see this.

Niallof9

Lost Ormond wrote: »

Lam suits being with players day in day out and is all about building a culture/environment that is impossible with international rugby. Lams very good season that won the league was the culmination of 3 years work and it took quite some time for there to be that success.
Farrell has more than enough connection, experience to work with Irish Rugby. Hindsight is fantastic and he may not work out but there wasnt many(any?) other real alternatives.

impossible, saids who? did somebody do a study on this?

its the Joe can't do passing in international windows myth all over again.

lord almighty.


if it takes experienced coaches like Joe and Pat time to give details and direction then pray tell what Andy does.

Is it actually not part of the problem, his blood and thunder hurt locker shtick goes so far.

Jesus H Christ give me a 2 year Lam, Joe plan any day.
there's no hindsight here. Af had no experience shouldn't have been appointed. my Foresight - it won't work out.

Tommybojangles

thomond2006 wrote: »

Moan moan moan moan moan

If the Ireland team upsets some of ye so much, don't watch. Don't engage. Go for a walk. Better still, get a dog and bring the dog for a walk. They're wonderful animals. They'll make you happy.

Look Thomond it's time to accept that your dog can only make you a certain amount of happy, and if you ever want to be truly happy it's time to give a few walks to some pups with a higher ceiling

bayern

Intl rugby losses sure does bring out the crazies

TRC10

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Pat Lam had one good season with Connacht. The following season they regressed again. They finished above 7th once and did nothing much in Europe.

It was an incredible achievement to win the Pro 14 and he brought the squad on for sure both on and off the field, but to call him one of Irish rugby's most successful coaches based on one successful season is a massive stretch.

Calling 2015/16 a "good" season nowhere near does it justice. It was one of the greatest achievements in the history of Irish sport.

SqueakyKneecap

bayern wrote: »

Intl rugby losses sure does bring out the crazies

Spot on. What kind of weirdo thinks "you bring the dog for a walk"? The dog brings you for a walk.

Niallof9

TRC10 wrote: »

Calling 2015/16 a "good" season nowhere near does it justice. It was one of the greatest achievements in the history of Irish sport.

exactly this. an utter joke, a supposed Connacht fan thinks this (maybe im wrong).

Utterly indefensible.

sums up everything wrong with Irish rugby imo. the fact a guy like this would say nothing to see here with Connach and Lam, while call out others on criticism of Ireland and their nothing coach. no words.

Niallof9

bayern wrote: »

Intl rugby losses sure does bring out the crazies

hope this is a joke post

thomond2006

Tommybojangles wrote: »

Look Thomond it's time to accept that your dog can only make you a certain amount of happy, and if you ever want to be truly happy it's time to give a few walks to some pups with a higher ceiling

My dog is the bestest dog ever. How very dare you.

theVersatile

Niallof9 wrote: »

hope this is a joke post

Spoiler alert: you're the butt of it.

Out of curiosity, are you actually capable of expressing a middle of the road opinion? Or is everything a "disgrace" or a "joke" or "everything wrong with Irish rugby" or "inexcusable" or "nonsense" or worthy of the Lord's name or a series of expletives poorly censored using asterisks?

Asking for a friend.

Niallof9

theVersatile wrote: »

Spoiler alert: you're the butt of it.

Out of curiosity, are you actually capable of expressing a middle of the road opinion? Or is everything a "disgrace" or a "joke" or "everything wrong with Irish rugby" or "inexcusable" or "nonsense" or worthy of the Lord's name or a series of expletives poorly censored using asterisks?

Asking for a friend.

ah give over. jesus what an aggressive post.

but my reply to such a post: whatevs.

i hope you enjoy second last. will you be happy with that, asking for a friend? and what will your excuse be?whataboutery accepted.

defend AF all u want, if it goes tits up i hope you will accept reality then.

but yeah saying Connachts pro 14 win was just an ordinary thing is a joke, disgrace, lords whatever. what i'd call deniers is worse.

TRC10

Casey and Coombes both very impressive away to Edinburgh tonight. Also, Alex Wooton is the top try scorer in the Pro14 this season, surely he deserves a squad place, I don't see the hype around Shane Daly personally.

Niallof9

TRC10 wrote: »

Casey and Coombes both very impressive away to Edinburgh tonight. Also, Alex Wooton is the top try scorer in the Pro14 this season, surely he deserves a squad place, I don't see the hype around Shane Daly personally.

neither will be involved against Italy. as mcbain said...thats the joke.

theVersatile

Niallof9 wrote: »

i hope you enjoy second last. will you be happy with that, asking for a friend?

I'm an attempt at kickstarting a discussion I'll bite (touché at the asking for a friend rebut actually got a chuckle from that).

It depends really. Its about progress. I think Farrell's already debuted a large number of new players already (mind I was fairly pissed myself when Craig didn't come on against France). Our attack has definitely improved shape wise, even if we've stalled a bit this Six Nations campaign. Just look back at the World Cup compared to ANC and its a huge difference ; and you can see us make huge leaps when we get into that 1 3 2 2 shape and do everything right - dominate carries, quick ball, and exploit the overlaps we create.

Even v France and Wales, there were plenty of opportunities to exploit wide space which we squandered through a failure of execution; rather than a failure of systems. I think Farrell and Catt have borne the brunt of a bit of unfair criticism in this regard (mind I'm sure there are better attack coaches out there than Catt at the same time).

Few examples include: Keenan misses a link pass causing a Herring knock on with a 3 on 1 v France, Henshaw carries in the last fourteen phases v France twice instead of passing to where there's superior numbers (mind one was a line-out strike so that might be a bit harsh; maybe preplanned); Keenan carries on an overlap instead of passing v Wales; around fifteen or twenty minutes into the France game CJ gets ripped when we have their defence massively constricted for the next phase, and I'm sure there's more. Our series looks very different if we convert even one or two of these chances. Part of that is on the players.

But I think if you want to see the leaps we've made as a team, look at the Georgia game. On one hand, yes it's Georgia, but on the other, we had some cracking play (especially the Dtockdale forward pass disallowed try, which was the cherry ontop of a solid string of phases). Same with the passage leading to the deliberate knock on v Scotland. Other improvements include the line out (thanks Paulie). Yes there's a lot of kicking too, but every time needs a kicking game and regardless of your opinion on the box kick, they're objectively good tactical decisions (see what happened in England v Italy when Garbisi took on all kicking duties - no Varney box kicks - minced on the counter).

So the next three games will tell a lot and I don't believe in prematurely declaring that a coach won't work out or is out of his depth. If we finish 1 - 5, but the difference between us finishing 1-5 and 5-1 is some red cards and a few blown overlaps, then I'll be very happy with Farrell going forward.

Edit: also please stop using the word "whataboutery"

Niallof9

theVersatile wrote: »

I'm an attempt at kickstarting a discussion I'll bite (touché at the asking for a friend rebut actually got a chuckle from that).

It depends really. Its about progress. I think Farrell's already debuted a large number of new players already (mind I was fairly pissed myself when Craig didn't come on against France). Our attack has definitely improved shape wise, even if we've stalled a bit this Six Nations campaign. Just look back at the World Cup compared to ANC and its a huge difference ; and you can see us make huge leaps when we get into that 1 3 2 2 shape and do everything right - dominate carries, quick ball, and exploit the overlaps we create.

Even v France and Wales, there were plenty of opportunities to exploit wide space which we squandered through a failure of execution; rather than a failure of systems. I think Farrell and Catt have borne the brunt of a bit of unfair criticism in this regard (mind I'm sure there are better attack coaches out there than Catt at the same time).

Few examples include: Keenan misses a link pass causing a Herring knock on with a 3 on 1 v France, Henshaw carries in the last fourteen phases v France twice instead of passing to where there's superior numbers (mind one was a line-out strike so that might be a bit harsh; maybe preplanned); Keenan carries on an overlap instead of passing v Wales; around fifteen or twenty minutes into the France game CJ gets ripped when we have their defence massively constricted for the next phase, and I'm sure there's more. Our series looks very different if we convert even one or two of these chances. Part of that is on the players.

But I think if you want to see the leaps we've made as a team, look at the Georgia game. On one hand, yes it's Georgia, but on the other, we had some cracking play (especially the Dtockdale forward pass disallowed try, which was the cherry ontop of a solid string of phases). Same with the passage leading to the deliberate knock on v Scotland. Other improvements include the line out (thanks Paulie). Yes there's a lot of kicking too, but every time needs a kicking game and regardless of your opinion on the box kick, they're objectively good tactical decisions (see what happened in England v Italy when Garbisi took on all kicking duties - no Varney box kicks - minced on the counter).

So the next three games will tell a lot and I don't believe in prematurely declaring that a coach won't work out or is out of his depth. If we finish 1 - 5, but the difference between us finishing 1-5 and 5-1 is some red cards and a few blown overlaps, then I'll be very happy with Farrell going forward.

i'll be honest i stopped reading at Gerogia. then i couldn't help myself, i soldiered on.

the last bit is such utter nonsense. so POM's red card excuses it all. jesus h christ

look whatever, you be happy with your thing and Andy etc, i'll do my viewpoint. boy your post is a real eyeopener.

just know, you'll be in the minority if it happens.

i actually loled at your post. genuinely.

theVersatile

Niallof9 wrote: »

i'll be honest i stopped reading at Gerogia. then i couldn't help myself.

the last bit is such utter nonsense. so POM's red card excuses it all. jesus h christ

This is your problem. You are absolutely above any other perspective or point of view. You just dismissed four paragraphs worth of actual rugby analysis with a completely irrelevant argument. I literally addressed "yes I know its Georgia" but alas nah that line makes four paragraphs worth of points irrelevant.

I'm glad you find a bit of nuance amusing though

Niallof9

theVersatile wrote: »

This is your problem. You are absolutely above any other perspective or point of view. You just dismissed four paragraphs worth of actual rugby analysis with a completely irrelevant argument. I literally addressed "yes I know its Georgia" but alas nah that line makes four paragraphs worth of points irrelevant.

the fact you take an utterly ****e game versus georgia as part of our overall improvements and progress is just nonsense man. seriously. please, there's no words to how much a joke that is. and its why the few critics on here are so perplexed.

look i actually give up. you've won, i hold my hands up. i;m leaving your forum to you guys. IBF, TV, Molloy whover. keep going on in your fantasy. it will be great comedy to lurk and just look back on.

using the Georgia game, the one we scraped by in, to push an argument, etc. lol. man are you actually Andy or one of his coaching team?

bayern

Niallof9 wrote: »

i'll be honest i stopped reading at Gerogia. then i couldn't help myself, i soldiered on.

the last bit is such utter nonsense. so POM's red card excuses it all. jesus h christ

look whatever, you be happy with your thing and Andy etc, i'll do my viewpoint. boy your post is a real eyeopener.

just know, you'll be in the minority if it happens.

i actually loled at your post. genuinely.

Incredible post.

Niallof9

bayern wrote: »

Incredible post.

utter lols.

i suppose you are another Georgia disciple eh?

pray tell, brother, tell me the great story of the Georgia game, how we struck a mighty blow for rugby and Ireland.

Fantasy begets fantasy.