Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

Clegg

SOB was frequently injured post 2015 World Cup. Had some bad injuries before then too.

His last hurrah as a player was the 2017 Lions tour. In his final run as a Leinster and Ireland player he was miles off the physicality and intensity required for a top class player. Couldn't keep up with Saracens at all in that 2019 final.

bayern

Was bizarre he started that game. Almost arrogant.

Clegg

I'd called it misplaced faith more than arrogance. SOB is one of the few genuinely world class players Ireland has produced. At his very best he would have started for any test nation in the world. Leo was probably betting on one last big performance.

bayern

Yeah maybe.. can't help but think leinster have been badly mismanaged and out coached in last 2 saracens games though.

But could just be the difference between having a fit and firing leavy and not.

clsmooth

Clegg wrote: »

I'd called it misplaced faith more than arrogance. SOB is one of the few genuinely world class players Ireland has produced. At his very best he would have started for any test nation in the world. Leo was probably betting on one last big performance.

He was decent in the semi vs Toulouse (or at least had a good offload for one of the tries) which probably got him in. I think VDF might have been injured or just back from injury himself? I’m sure there was also a bit of pressure from the Irish management to have him playing and up to pace for the 2019 World Cup.

He never really had a consistent injury free run of form after dislocating his shoulder against Ulster in 2013. Every time he got back in, he’d break down again. He was still worth his place but post 2017 Lions I think he was pretty much finished (as a world class player).

Former Former Former

bayern wrote: »

Yeah maybe.. can't help but think leinster have been badly mismanaged and out coached in last 2 saracens games though.

But could just be the difference between having a fit and firing leavy and not.

Leavy isn't nearly as good as that. He never was.

bayern

Former Former Former wrote: »

Leavy isn't nearly as good as that. He never was.

as good as what? SOB at his best?

did I claim he was?

Leavy was excellent in leinsters sole win against Saracens, he was absent in both the of the losses. Who knows what happens in the final if he is starting at 7 ahead of a broken down SOB? Or a rookie Connors in the most recent matchup.

Clegg

bayern wrote: »

Yeah maybe.. can't help but think leinster have been badly mismanaged and out coached in last 2 saracens games though.

But could just be the difference between having a fit and firing leavy and not.

We've definitely missed Leavy in both games and he could have proved the difference in the final. But last season's QF was a failure of the set piece. Our scrum was minced and Toner couldn't shore up the lineout. Think we conceded 12 points from conceded scrum penalties?

What annoyed me most about that game was that we failed to implement the attacking kicking game we'd been developing in games against Ulster and Munster. it was all in preparation for that QF and we never used it. Personally, I think we were so shellshocked about the scrum problems that we never got our heads right and actually kicked it through the rush defence.

bayern

Clegg wrote: »

We've definitely missed Leavy in both games and he could have proved the difference in the final. But last season's QF was a failure of the set piece. Our scrum was minced and Toner couldn't shore up the lineout. Think we conceded 12 points from conceded scrum penalties?

What annoyed me most about that game was that we failed to implement the attacking kicking game we'd been developing in games against Ulster and Munster. it was all in preparation for that QF and we never used it. Personally, I think we were so shellshocked about the scrum problems that we never hour our heads right and actually kicked it through the rush defence.

agreed, last seasons QF was a much bigger failure of coaching and management.

Former Former Former

bayern wrote: »

as good as what? SOB at his best?

did I claim he was?

Leavy was excellent in leinsters sole win against Saracens, he was absent in both the of the losses. Who knows what happens in the final if he is starting at 7 ahead of a broken down SOB? Or a rookie Connors in the most recent matchup.

He's not good enough to turn the tide of those games on his own. Definitely not the 2020 qf.

He's been very over hyped during his absence IMO.

prawnsambo

Former Former Former wrote: »

Leavy isn't nearly as good as that. He never was.

Bit harsh on Leavy to say he was never as good as a partially crocked SOB.

irishbucsfan

Former Former Former wrote: »

He's not good enough to turn the tide of those games on his own. Definitely not the 2020 qf.

He's been very over hyped during his absence IMO.

He was one of Ireland’s best players during the grand slam run and was Leinster’s player of the year that year as well. The hype is justified IF he can come back and hit the same levels

UAEguy2020

bayern wrote: »

Yeah maybe.. can't help but think leinster have been badly mismanaged and out coached in last 2 saracens games though.

But could just be the difference between having a fit and firing leavy and not.

Because sadly it seems to be the standard Irish excuse since 2018, just blame the size and don’t bother trying to fix the actual problem and England/Saracens lay out the same trap and we continue to jump in with both feet every time.

bayern

UAEguy2020 wrote: »

Because sadly it seems to be the standard Irish excuse since 2018, just blame the size and don’t bother trying to fix the actual problem and England/Saracens lay out the same trap and we continue to jump in with both feet every time.

the actual problem being?

Clegg

Casey, Baird and Tom O'Toole are back in the squad. You'd hope that we may see at least one of them in the 23 for the Italy game.

https://twitter.com/Murray_Kinsella/status/1363522046806876171?s=09

thomond2006

Andrew Conway (Munster/Garryowen) 24 caps
Shane Daly (Munster/Cork Con) 1 cap
Keith Earls (Munster/Young Munster) 90 caps
Hugo Keenan (Leinster/UCD) 8 caps
Jordan Larmour (Leinster/St Mary’s College) 26 caps
James Lowe (Leinster) 4 caps

Bundee Aki (Connacht/Galwegians) 30 caps
Chris Farrell (Munster/Young Munster) 14 caps
Robbie Henshaw (Leinster/Buccaneers) 49 caps
Stuart McCloskey (Ulster/Bangor) 4 caps
Garry Ringrose (Leinster/UCD) 32 caps

Billy Burns (Ulster) 5 caps
Ross Byrne (Leinster/UCD) 12 caps
Jonathan Sexton (Leinster/St Mary’s College) 96 caps

Craig Casey (Munster/Shannon) uncapped
Conor Murray (Munster/Garryowen) 88 caps
Jamison Gibson Park (Leinster) 7 caps

Dave Heffernan (Connacht/Buccaneers) 5 caps
Rob Herring (Ulster/Ballynahinch) 18 caps
Ronan Kelleher (Leinster/Lansdowne) 8 caps

Ed Byrne (Leinster/UCD) 4 caps
Cian Healy (Leinster/Clontarf) 106 caps
Dave Kilcoyne (Munster/UL Bohemians) 40 caps

Tadhg Furlong (Leinster/Clontarf) 46 caps
Tom O’Toole (Ulster/Ballynahinch) uncapped
Andrew Porter (Leinster/UCD) 34 caps

Ryan Baird (Leinster/Dublin University) uncapped
Tadhg Beirne (Munster/Lansdowne) 19 caps
Ultan Dillane (Connacht/Corinthians) 18 caps
Iain Henderson (Ulster/Academy) 60 caps
James Ryan (Leinster/UCD) 33 caps

Jack Conan (Leinster/Old Belvedere) 17 caps
Will Connors (Leinster/UCD) 7 caps
Rhys Ruddock (Leinster/St Mary’s College) 27 caps
CJ Stander (Munster/Shannon) 48 caps
Josh van der Flier (Leinster/UCD) 30 caps

TRC10

Only 5 back rowers named. I think we could see Beirne at 6 for this game.

The Inbetween is mine

Baird is this squads Coombes? Slight involvement and then sent back to his province before the game.

yerrahbah

Now the Italians are really gonna be surprised when Harry Byrne starts.

Disappointed for Coombes but signs weren't good when he was released back to Munster ahead of the French game

bayern

Who does Coombes deserve to be there instead of?

Must love hardship

bayern wrote: »

Who does Coombes deserve to be there instead of?

Stander he has about 1 try in last 10 games to Coombes 8.

sydthebeat

Must love hardship wrote: »

Stander he has about 1 try in last 10 games to Coombes 8.

standers only played in 4 munster games this season....

Must love hardship

sydthebeat wrote: »

standers only played in 4 munster games this season....

Maybe he should play in the next 4 so.

sydthebeat

Must love hardship wrote: »

Maybe he should play in the next 4 so.

what a very strange comment ............

The Inbetween is mine

Looking at the squad it's hard not to feel sorry for McCloskey, poor sod knows as soon as they don't need anymore tackle bag holders hes going home.
Has to be hard knowing that you're not getting a chance with Aki, Ringrose, Farrell and Henshaw ahead of you barring a disaster.

thomond2006

Byrne, Kelleher, Furlong, Beirne, Ryan, Stander, Connors, Conan;
Murray, Sexton, Daly, Henshaw, Ringrose, Larmour, Keenan

Heffernan, Kilcoyne, TOT, Baird, JVDF, Casey, Byrne, Farrell

Definitely going to happen.

Must love hardship

sydthebeat wrote: »

what a very strange comment ............

Not really.. someone asked who should Coombes replace in the squad.

I suggested stander. So stander swaps and plays the next few games for Munster.

Grand stander can return a few kicks and it looks like he is making yards but he's a blunt instrument. Tucks the ball up his jumper and runs headlessly into contact. We have front row players with better footwork and hands.

I'd take Conan at 8 Coombes at 6 Connors or vdf at 7 and ruddock on the bench.

Burkie1203

thomond2006 wrote: »

Byrne, Kelleher, Furlong, Beirne, Ryan, Stander, Connors, Conan;
Murray, Sexton, Daly, Henshaw, Ringrose, Larmour, Keenan

Heffernan, Kilcoyne, TOT, Baird, JVDF, Casey, Byrne, Farrell

Definitely going to happen.

Casey to get 3 minute's and 24 seconds off the bench at the end and Furlong to go the 80

The Inbetween is mine

Step away lads.... back away gently puleease

Must love hardship

sydthebeat wrote: »

standers only played in 4 munster games this season....

The only international try he scored so far in the 20/21 season was v Italy. 6 scoreless games..
3 in the autumn Cup.

Why would you keeping playing him if he's not doing the business...