Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

penybont exile

TBH there is an element of beauty being in the eye of the beholder with all this .......

The national team in Wales far outweighs the so called regions. Most people don't really care about the pro-14 or H/Cup ..... they have limited exposure .....

awec

penybont exile wrote: »

TBH there is an element of beauty being in the eye of the beholder with all this .......

The national team in Wales far outweighs the so called regions. Most people don't really care about the pro-14 or H/Cup ..... they have limited exposure .....

Irish fans have always had an inflated sense of value in this competitions because traditionally we've done well in them. We know though from experience that others don't view them the same.

In the league especially it is self-perpetuating. Other nations care less, so we perform better, which increases the perceived value here, decreases the value elsewhere and so the cycle goes on.

Podge_irl

awec wrote: »

Our RWC record is hopeless, there is no point in us trying to convince ourselves otherwise, or even worse trying to convince ourselves that it doesn't really matter anyway cause sure we've won 12 leagues. I would gladly never have an irish team even reach a league knockout game ever again (honestly who really cares) if it somehow magically improved our world cup record.

Wales are better than us at World Cups. They are also worse than we are at times. While we are more consistent, this also comes with the unfortunate caveat that we are consistently rubbish in the biggest games.

Its completely hopeless.

I just don't overly care about the difference between a SF and a QF.

Now if we were talking about finals, or even winning the damn thing, I would have a completely different viewpoint.

awec

Podge_irl wrote: »

Its completely hopeless.

I just don't overly care about the difference between a SF and a QF.

Now if we were talking about finals, or even winning the damn thing, I would have a completely different viewpoint.

You can't get to finals or win it without getting to a SF.

A SF is a big step. The fact that we have never won a world cup knockout game definitely affects us mentally and increases the pressure on players. We need to break this duck.

theVersatile

15. Hugo Keenan (Leinster/UCD) 8 caps
14. Jordan Larmour (Leinster/St Mary’s College) 26 caps
13. Garry Ringrose (Leinster/UCD) 32 caps
12. Robbie Henshaw (Leinster/Buccaneers) 49 caps
11. James Lowe (Leinster) 4 caps
10. Jonathan Sexton (Leinster/St Mary’s College) 96 caps CAPTAIN
9. Jamison Gibson Park (Leinster) 7 caps
1. Dave Kilcoyne (Munster/UL Bohemians) 40 caps
2. Ronan Kelleher (Leinster/Lansdowne) 8 caps
3. Tadhg Furlong (Leinster/Clontarf) 46 caps
4. Iain Henderson (Ulster/Academy) 60 caps
5. James Ryan (Leinster/UCD) 33 caps
6. Tadhg Beirne (Munster/Lansdowne) 19 caps
7. Will Connors (Leinster/UCD) 7 caps
8. CJ Stander (Munster/Shannon) 48 caps

Replacements

16. Rob Herring (Ulster/Ballynahinch) 18 caps
17. Cian Healy (Leinster/Clontarf) 106 caps
18. Andrew Porter (Leinster/UCD) 34 caps
19. Ryan Baird (Leinster/Dublin University) uncapped
20. Jack Conan (Leinster/Old Belvedere) 17 caps
21. Craig Casey (Munster/Shannon) uncapped
22. Billy Burns (Ulster) 5 caps
23. Keith Earls (Munster/Young Munster) 90 caps

GeordieC

bayern wrote: »

IRELAND (possible) v Italy: Hugo Keenan; Keith Earls or Jordan Larmour, Garry Ringrose, Robbie Henshaw, James Lowe; Johnny Sexton (capt), Jamison Gibson-Park; David Kilcoyne, Rónan Kelleher, Tadhg Furlong; Iain Henderson, James Ryan; Tadhg Beirne, Will Connors, CJ Stander.

Replacements: Rob Herring, Cian Healy, Andrew Porter, Ryan Baird, Jack Conan, Craig Casey, Billy Burns, Earls or Larmour.

*Assuming above is correct*

Farrell has been saying he will put out the strongest team, so to be honest I wasn't expecting as many changes as this.

I quite welcome the rotation at front row.
Second row we have our best two, but Beirne has been great so it will be interesting to see his move to back row. Looking forward to seeing Ryan Baird off the bench too.
Surprised at VDF out for Connors if its 'the best team' but equally pleased by rotation.

If Murray isn't in the squad, its disappointing Cooney hasn't been brought in to the wider picture. I hope Casey gets a good 30min.
The rest of the backline as expected but hoping Larmour is starting over Earls.

LuckyLloyd

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Wales have literally just won one more game than us at World Cups. They haven't even made a final. They have won ZERO world cups.

The obsession with getting to semi finals is so mad to me. Getting to a semi final in a knockout competition is BARELY better than getting to a quarter final.

If Ireland were in Wales' position, Irish fans would just moan that we can only get to semi finals of big competitions and we'll never make a final.

It’s facetious to describe the other side of the argument as having an “obsession with getting to a semi final”.

It’s 9 world cups in succession where we’ve failed to progress beyond a quarter final (including two where we couldn’t even make the quarter final). It’s a scandalous record.

Yes, we lost to the All Blacks in 2019. But before that our conquerors have been Argentina, Wales, Argentina, France, Argentina

We beat these nations in the cycles leading up to those world cups (just like we beat NZ twice in the 2019 cycle) but get beaten, often smashed when it actually matters.

A few triple crowns don’t make up for it lads.

Thrashssacre

Feel for Ruddock, guy can't catch a break at all. Probably Ireland's best player Vs France and he's out of the 23 even though he was in the squad during the by week.

sydthebeat

theVersatile wrote: »

15. Hugo Keenan (Leinster/UCD) 8 caps
14. Jordan Larmour (Leinster/St Mary’s College) 26 caps
13. Garry Ringrose (Leinster/UCD) 32 caps
12. Robbie Henshaw (Leinster/Buccaneers) 49 caps
11. James Lowe (Leinster) 4 caps
10. Jonathan Sexton (Leinster/St Mary’s College) 96 caps CAPTAIN
9. Jamison Gibson Park (Leinster) 7 caps
1. Dave Kilcoyne (Munster/UL Bohemians) 40 caps
2. Ronan Kelleher (Leinster/Lansdowne) 8 caps
3. Tadhg Furlong (Leinster/Clontarf) 46 caps
4. Iain Henderson (Ulster/Academy) 60 caps
5. James Ryan (Leinster/UCD) 33 caps
6. Tadhg Beirne (Munster/Lansdowne) 19 caps
7. Will Connors (Leinster/UCD) 7 caps
8. CJ Stander (Munster/Shannon) 48 caps

Replacements

16. Rob Herring (Ulster/Ballynahinch) 18 caps
17. Cian Healy (Leinster/Clontarf) 106 caps
18. Andrew Porter (Leinster/UCD) 34 caps
19. Ryan Baird (Leinster/Dublin University) uncapped
20. Jack Conan (Leinster/Old Belvedere) 17 caps
21. Craig Casey (Munster/Shannon) uncapped
22. Billy Burns (Ulster) 5 caps
23. Keith Earls (Munster/Young Munster) 90 caps

for those that said leinster are good enough to beat Italy... we'll find out on saturday

leinster 9 to 15 should be good to watch

Sangre

Happy enough with that squad. As captain, Sexton was always playing.

Although not sure Earls on the bench adds much...

Podge_irl

awec wrote: »

You can't get to finals or win it without getting to a SF.

A SF is a big step. The fact that we have never won a world cup knockout game definitely affects us mentally and increases the pressure on players. We need to break this duck.

Sure, I don't disagree. I would be more relieved to make the SF than anything though, as it would be something of a monkey off our back.

I'm just saying that looking historically, I wouldn't much care about the difference between making a couple SFs vs not over the last couple decades when it comes to comparing international records.

ersatz

Podge_irl wrote: »

Its completely hopeless.

I just don't overly care about the difference between a SF and a QF.

Now if we were talking about finals, or even winning the damn thing, I would have a completely different viewpoint.

The failure to get past the QF is an issue only because it's the only time the national team ever plays a knockout game. It's a real thing as any player or coach will tell you, Munster needed to become a different kind of team to progress through the knockouts to win in Europe, same as Leinster did. Ireland haven't got there yet, as things stand I could see Wales winning the RWC before Ireland get near the final. There's a big cultural or psychological component to generating that kind of confidence, we hoped Joe would deliver it in the WC but he didn't in 2, and I don't believe that Ireland team honestly felt they had a hope against the ABs in Japan.

awec

Sangre wrote: »

Happy enough with that squad. As captain, Sexton was always playing.

Although not sure Earls on the bench adds much...

Who else is there?

Clegg

Picking the Leinster backline en masse is certainly one way of trying to fix your problems in attack. Could we draft in Felipe and Lancaster to coach them too?

Paul Smeenus

sydthebeat wrote: »

for those that said leinster are good enough to beat Italy... we'll find out on saturday

leinster 9 to 15 should be good to watch

Haven't been watching this Six Nations, then?

Clegg

Delighted for Casey and Baird. I'd hope that if we start the game well it would give Farrell the room to out on Casey earlier and give him meaningful game time.

Baird's been somewhat unlucky as he was in line to play Italy this time last year, but the lockdown out a halt to that. He's still only 21 so plenty of time for him to develop too.

salmocab

Casey and Baird on the bench, both pretty certain to get first caps. That’ll be 13 new caps from Farrell?

sydthebeat

Paul Smeenus wrote: »

Haven't been watching this Six Nations, then?

too many non bluebloods in spoiling the broth

irishbucsfan

awec wrote: »

You can't get to finals or win it without getting to a SF.

A SF is a big step. The fact that we have never won a world cup knockout game definitely affects us mentally and increases the pressure on players. We need to break this duck.

Getting to a SF is not a big step.

Saying you can’t win without getting to a SF is a pointless truism.

We could get a totally easy QF draw and make it to a semi final and I personally wouldn’t be any more satisfied.

I hope people aren’t thinking that if we middle our way to a SF in the next World Cup they’re going to feel good about it. You’ll be outrageously disappointed.

The only thing that we should be targeting is getting to a World Cup with a team that is good enough to win it playing to their full potential. We haven’t done that yet. Putting a SF on a pedestal is just a losers approach to me. We can absolutely win the next World Cup (as much as it’d take an enormous improvement from where we are currently), we don’t need to have a vainglorious SF failure first.

Brief_Lives

Ireland: Hugo Keenan, Jordan Larmour, Garry Ringrose, Robbie Henshaw, James Lowe , Jonathan Sexton (Capt), Jamison Gibson Park; Dave Kilcoyne, Ronan Kelleher, Tadhg Furlong, Iain Henderson, James Ryan, Tadhg Beirne, Will Connors, CJ Stander

Replacements: Rob Herring, Cian Healy, Andrew Porter, Ryan Baird, Jack Conan, Craig Casey, Billy Burns, Keith Earls


real experimental stuff from Farrell....

Interested Observer

Happy enough with the team. Hopefully Casey gets some gametime. Real shame for Ruddock but very pleased for Conan, he's been excellent for Leinster since getting back from his injury.

Brief_Lives wrote: »

real experimental stuff from Farrell....

7 changes from the last game, you're not going to get much more than that.

GeordieC

awec wrote: »

Who else is there?

Andrew Conway & Shane Daly

I agree, why have Earls on the bench v Italy?

Conway has been unlucky imo

irishbucsfan

ersatz wrote: »

The failure to get past the QF is an issue only because it's the only time the national team ever plays a knockout game. It's a real thing as any player or coach will tell you, Munster needed to become a different kind of team to progress through the knockouts to win in Europe, same as Leinster did. Ireland haven't got there yet, as things stand I could see Wales winning the RWC before Ireland get near the final. There's a big cultural or psychological component to generating that kind of confidence, we hoped Joe would deliver it in the WC but he didn't in 2, and I don't believe that Ireland team honestly felt they had a hope against the ABs in Japan.

A grand slam decider is functionally the same thing as a knockout game. High stakes, lose and it’s over.

There’s no need to play sports psychologist on this one.

Fredinho

Can't be long before Leo and the rest of the Leinster team get a call up at this rate. In fact might be best if we send out a full leinster 15.

Farrell should be gone at the end of this six nations. He's added nothing to the set up. Giving a guy who's never been a head coach before an international head coaches role is coming home to roost now.

Not sure how Ulster, Munster and especially Connaught fans would feel about that 23, but I'm sure they're happy their front lines players are getting a rest before the remainder of the club season.

Conan and Baird off the bench should be entertaining. They were both fairly rampaging against Dragons last week albeit won't be able to replicate that at International level.

Delighted for Casey - big step up but the right fixture for him to do it in - would be good to see him come on early enough to play alongside Sexton.

Aki not getting a look in is disappointing. Earls covering back three / midfield makes sense.

All Leinster backline is interesting - will they be listening to Catt at all .. ?

Beirne into 6 could be consequential if he goes well there. That backrow should offer plenty at the breakdown but will it deliver much meters per carry?

This is a make or break game truth be told. A loss here means an almost certain shake up of the coaches. A win sadly doesn't mean much, but a strong performance will settle nerves a little bit for the final two rounds.

Podge_irl

irishbucsfan wrote: »

A grand slam decider is functionally the same thing as a knockout game. High stakes, lose and it’s over.

There’s no need to play sports psychologist on this one.

Have we played an actual Grand Slam decider (as in winner gets the GS) since 2003?

irishbucsfan

Podge_irl wrote: »

Have we played an actual Grand Slam decider (as in winner gets the GS) since 2003?

No, not for both sides but the grand slam game against England was functionally the same thing for us

bilston

awec wrote: »

Who else is there?

Would be nice to see Lowry get a shot.

thomond2006

Conway looked very rusty for Munster last weekend.
Shane Daly on the other hand looked great. I can't understand Earls on the bench and I'm the biggest Earls fan.

awec

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Getting to a SF is not a big step.

Saying you can’t win without getting to a SF is a pointless truism.

We could get a totally easy QF draw and make it to a semi final and I personally wouldn’t be any more satisfied.

I hope people aren’t thinking that if we middle our way to a SF in the next World Cup they’re going to feel good about it. You’ll be outrageously disappointed.

The only thing that we should be targeting is getting to a World Cup with a team that is good enough to win it playing to their full potential. We haven’t done that yet. Putting a SF on a pedestal is just a losers approach to me. We can absolutely win the next World Cup (as much as it’d take an enormous improvement from where we are currently), we don’t need to have a vainglorious SF failure first.

Well alas, it's a big enough step that Ireland have failed to do it at every single attempt.

There is no point talking about us winning a world cup. We aren't going to go from never winning a knockout game to winning 3 knockout games in a row and lifting a trophy in one go. It's absurd.