Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

eagle eye

I thought Lowe was going to make a huge difference, was very excited when he came in.
Now I'm wondering if he is going to make it. Today won't tell us much really but a full Leinster backfield should help him greatly.

OldRio

the baby bull elephant wrote: »

Why do people keep putting plan in quotation marks? You might rightly point out it hasn't been effective so far, due to poor design or poor implementation but it is a pretty clear plan which has some broad stroke similarities to Leinster's and many other teams.

When playing off an edge we want two lines of attack of 9 and 10 and our ideal is to suck in defenders with them getting our 13 or 15 on the outside shoulder of the defender in the 13 channel. Theoretically this should give the player with ball a range of options which can lead to a linebreak or halfbreak. At the very least stretching the defence.

Clearly it's not working anywhere close to as much as we would like at the moment but there definitely is a plan and at least the broader concept is not without merit.

I have yet to see a 'plan' Non.

Mike Catt said we had a number of chances against France. Apart from the Lowe chance I saw zero. Zilch. Catt also started to put the blame on the players whilst speaking to the press (He has history for this).

I would imagine he will be gone after this championship. Then hopefully we will get a backs coach who can actually do his job.

irishbucsfan

OldRio wrote: »

Chancer, if you think differently have a read or listen to Stuart Barnes.

Not convinced by Catt at all either. But it definitely hasn't driven me to listening to or reading Stuart Barnes yet. Hope you're OK!

theVersatile

OldRio wrote: »

I have yet to see a 'plan' Non.

Mike Catt said we had a number of chances against France. Apart from the Lowe chance I saw zero. Zilch. Catt also started to put the blame on the players whilst speaking to the press (He has history for this).

I would imagine he will be gone after this championship. Then hopefully we will get a backs coach who can actually do his job.

Have to agree with Catt on this one. A lot of blown chances v France due to players making wrong decisions. Ringrose's kick with a 3 or 4 v1, Henshaw carrying on a 3v1 during the last 14 phases, that Keenan pass to nobody leading to Herring knocking on ; are just three of quite a few examples mentioned frequently online.

molloyjh

OldRio wrote: »

Mike Catt said we had a number of chances against France. Apart from the Lowe chance I saw zero. Zilch.

Well I'm not sure how you didn't. They were there. They've been discussed here numerous times in the last 2 weeks. Murray Kinsella was one of a few journos who documented some of those chances in articles like the below. You missing all of that isnt Catts problem.

https://the42.ie/5354636

aloooof

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Not convinced by Catt at all either. But it definitely hasn't driven me to listening to or reading Stuart Barnes yet. Hope you're OK!

Only caught up with some podcasts from earlier in the week this morning, and have to say, I’m not a fan of his publicly putting it on the players, suggesting they’re not executing. Kinda feels like he’s trying to pass the buck and avoid blame himself.

Scratchly

I hate all this offloading talk from pundits. Its such a lazy opinion. Every Irish coach that I remember had been criticised for not "playing like new Zealand".

Sure it would make for great viewing and be great if Ireland played that way and won but offloading doesn't make a good team and offloading stats don't reflect whether the team played good or bad.

Horgan just said France haven't been throwing the ball around in previous years because they hadn't got the structure. They have. I think I seen some stats before where they've consistently been the top or one of the top offloading teams over the last decade. Even when they were terrible and losing to Italy etc they were still offloading more than anyone else.

New Zealand offload a lot too but when you look at the stats of close run games, particularly in the world Cup knockouts their offloading decreases dramatically. I think in one of the finals they offloaded 3 times or something.

It's not a reflection of anything in relation to how good a team is or whether they're improving or not.

hahashake

eagle eye wrote: »

I thought Lowe was going to make a huge difference, was very excited when he came in.
Now I'm wondering if he is going to make it. Today won't tell us much really but a full Leinster backfield should help him greatly.

If Lowe scores that try then I feel many people's opinion on him changes, despite that fact there was only mm in it. Especially if it changes the outcome of the game.

But he's ultimately a very uneven player, great in many areas but lacking on defence. Then again the same could be said for Stockdale.

OldRio

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Not convinced by Catt at all either. But it definitely hasn't driven me to listening to or reading Stuart Barnes yet. Hope you're OK!

Haha.. I'm grand. To be honest I don't mind Barnes at all. He's not great on the commentary but I find his analysis work really good. Plus any man who's mad on Bob Dylan is grand in my book.

Bluwave

Virgin putting the boot into Mike Catt.

Cluedo Monopoly

Is there a match thread today?

dublinman1990

Will there an official match thread soon?

I can't see it when on mobile. Thx.

Clegg

50th cap for Henshaw.

Great achievement considering all his injury woes.

Yeah_Right

Cluedo Monopoly wrote: »

Is there a match thread today?

Awec is doing one I believe. It's going to be epic!!

sydthebeat

sydthebeat wrote: »

Irelands gonna win this 38 - 8

The tries are going to come from Lowe x 2, stander, JGP, Kelleher and pen try.

the italians are going to be down to 14 men on 2 separate occasions during the game, and their try will come from Negri.

Meh... Close enough

Natterjack from Kerry

eagle eye wrote: »

I thought Lowe was going to make a huge difference, was very excited when he came in.
Now I'm wondering if he is going to make it. Today won't tell us much really

I think it did really. He should have made hay, but didnt at all. Agree, wondering if he will make it, and tending to the pessimistic. Type of player who can thrive against the sub par Pro 14 teams, but even the step up to Italy, not that big a step really, is a stretch. Could be Earls and Larmour as Farrell tries to salvage something of the season for the last two games.

theVersatile

Am I being incredibly biased in thinking Casey did well when he came on? The comments in his 42.ie article seem to indicate otherwise (though perhaps my mistake here was reading the 42.ie comments section)

salmocab

theVersatile wrote: »

Am I being incredibly biased in thinking Casey did well when he came on? The comments in his 42.ie article seem to indicate otherwise (though perhaps my mistake here was reading the 42.ie comments section)

Comments anywhere tend to be very biased. He did well. Looks like he’ll be a cracking player.

Water John

Shave the hair off him and he'll be like Stringer.

Buer

theVersatile wrote: »

Am I being incredibly biased in thinking Casey did well when he came on? The comments in his 42.ie article seem to indicate otherwise (though perhaps my mistake here was reading the 42.ie comments section)

He was grand. Nothing special but he looked like he was comfortable. Snappy pass, made one good cover tackle behind the line and didn't look overwhelmed. He didn't need to take a few steps before the forward pass and the pack were right to keep the ball from him for the second Connors' try when he was looking to take it.

If all debutants looked as good as him and Baird, we'd be laughing.

sydthebeat

Natterjack from Kerry wrote: »

I think it did really. He should have made hay, but didnt at all. Agree, wondering if he will make it, and tending to the pessimistic. Type of player who can thrive against the sub par Pro 14 teams, but even the step up to Italy, not that big a step really, is a stretch. Could be Earls and Larmour as Farrell tries to salvage something of the season for the last two games.

The same James Lowe who had a try very harshly scratched off for a forward pass when it was not clear (to me anyway)..

Who had easily the best stats of all the Irish backs..

... Who beat 3 defenders... 2 clear line breaks... And made the most meters of any Irish player with 102 meters... Over 2.5 times than of the next nearest Irish player...

If hay making was his job he'd have baled the full farm today

bilston

theVersatile wrote: »

Am I being incredibly biased in thinking Casey did well when he came on? The comments in his 42.ie article seem to indicate otherwise (though perhaps my mistake here was reading the 42.ie comments section)

He was quality. The tempo brought a different dimension to Ireland's game. He wasn't perfect, but what 21 year old on debut is. But the quality is there. He has a huge future in front of him IMO.

I'd love to see him bench against Scotland even if Murray is back and starting.

Natterjack from Kerry

sydthebeat wrote: »

The same James Lowe who had a try very harshly scratched off for a forward pass when it was not clear (to me anyway)..

Who had easily the best stats of all the Irish backs..

... Who beat 3 defenders... 2 clear line breaks... And made the most meters of any Irish player with 102 meters... Over 2.5 times than of the next nearest Irish player...

If hay making was his job he'd have baled the full farm today

Yes, the same guy. If the next game were the Italy one, you could maybe see him hang on for another game, but given that the first two were lost, there is a lot of pressure to salvage something, and Stockdale will be back, I would assume he is out. I draw my conclusions more from my expert experienced eye in matters rugby, and not on numerical analysis.

sydthebeat

Natterjack from Kerry wrote: »

Yes, the same guy. If the next game were the Italy one, you could maybe see him hang on for another game, but given that the first two were lost, there is a lot of pressure to salvage something, and Stockdale will be back, I would assume he is out. I draw my conclusions more from my expert experienced eye in matters rugby, and not on numerical analysis.

Good for you.
You might be surprised however that the numerical analysis will play a factor into selection...
Not just who touches the ball down

Of the 3 wingers on show today for Ireland, there is no doubt who was the most effective.

Brewster

So I was pleased with Beirne at 6, I think 4-6 are nailed down for Ireland for the next 12-18 months. So who plays 7 and 8 when Doris is fit. Can CJ play 7 and Doris 8? Or do we play a true open side and let let Doris and CJ battle for number 8? Beirne, CJ and Doris would certainly bring a physical edge.

leakyboots

Some thoughts:

Front row went well. Killer had some great carries and counterrucks. 13/0 in tackles too which I didn't cop at the time. Did he look shaky in the scrum at times? Some silly offside penalties. Positive performance all things considered Healy looked old when he came on, I dunno, I'd try and nurse him through the next couple of matches but I think this is his last hurrah sadly. I'd nearly start him and tell him empty the tank and keep Killer for impact because I'm not sure the other way works as well.

Kelleher did well - I wasn't overly impressed in the early part of the match with someone's comment that he was clearly better than Herring but then he went and showed up very well in the loose with a turnover and some lovely hands for one try. 12/0 tackles. It's between him and Herring at the moment, go with youth and give Kelleher a start for next two games and see how he goes. I still think KOB is playing really great stuff at the moment but this Six Nations came too soon for him unfortunately.

Furlong was back to his best, great to see.

Second rows grafted the whole way through, Ryan tackled all day (19/0) and Henderson had some big plays.

The backrows were the stars of the show. All three played very well. Beirne was everywhere, what an athlete, turnover on the ground, lineout steal, two clean breaks. Top turnovers in the tournament so far, rock solid in the lineout.

Connors showed the smarts in link play that I don't see with JvdF. Tackled all day too. I wouldn't be surprised if POM comes back in but if not I'd give Connors the 7 - didn't think I'd be saying that at the start of the tournament but he's hardly put a foot wrong since he got the call.

I thought CJ was the pick of the three though - took lineout ball, carried well, nice try, turned over ball on the ground, caused absolute havoc in the rucks.

JGP went well - he's a great threat around the fringes. Him and Kelleher made a hames of a rolling maul at one point which really annoyed me and the quick tap I don't know whether to blame him for going off on one or the lack of support. But he played well, had a great platform. Casey looked lively when he came on, sung a lovely song after in the changing room which sees him get the jersey for the next ten years for me.

Sexton was great! That pass to Earls at the end was super. Rolled back the years. Have no idea why he was on as long as he was or even starting but can't fault his performance.

Lowe - probably going to cop some flak for this but I think he's had enough bites of the cherry to get a handle on the jersey. Next cab off the rank for me anyway, he hasn't been good enough. I'd be giving it to Stockdale/Earls/Conway/Ulster young guns. Keenan took his chance, Lowe, for me, hasn't. I think if he wasn't the cause celebre with Leinster fans on here he'd be shipping a LOT more criticism for the charged down/poor kicks, missed reads for tries, slow-pace and the ball dying with him by the touchline. Then again he makes metres. And when he does kick well he gets huge purchase and he does break tackles - and I admired him trying to be positive today but it didn't come off for the most part. This was ready made for him to wreak havoc. Wing is wide open and I'd be letting someone else have a crack at the 11 jersey. I don't think it will happen mind and we'll see him for the next two games.

Larmour was great while he was on attacking wise. Earls had a howler of a first kick, did his job apart from that but wasn't particularly involved. Delighted he got a try at the end, what a pass from Sexton. Would like to see Larmour and Earls/Conway/Stockdale for the next couple of games.

Centres - both superb. Ringrose had some lovely touches, Henshaw tackled and like a demon. CJ is the top carrier in the tournament by 8, Faletau, then Henshaw, Beirne, Ringrose, Keenan, Lowe.

Keenan - didn't have to make a tackle but was excellent going forward, ran a lovely line for his try and constantly broke tackles. Has looked assured at 15 and the jersey is his til he loses it I'd say.

How much we learned after that I don't know but it's better than us scraping a win and having a big inquest. Farrell and the players will be happy with it, a potential banana skin avoided. We'll know more where we're at in the next couple of games.

aloooof

Natterjack from Kerry wrote: »

Yes, the same guy. If the next game were the Italy one, you could maybe see him hang on for another game, but given that the first two were lost, there is a lot of pressure to salvage something, and Stockdale will be back, I would assume he is out. I draw my conclusions more from my expert experienced eye in matters rugby, and not on numerical analysis.

With your ‘expert experienced eye’, why aren’t you coaching an international rugby team rather than posting on boards?

TomsOnTheRoof

theVersatile wrote: »

Am I being incredibly biased in thinking Casey did well when he came on? The comments in his 42.ie article seem to indicate otherwise (though perhaps my mistake here was reading the 42.ie comments section)

Nah he did well enough. His passing, bar the one forward (which was unlucky to be called), was excellent. I saw those comments and the only one that gained any traction was from a disgruntled Connacht fan.

Dubinusa

I think Stockdale should come right back into the team. Lowe, just isn't good enough for me. Defense is abysmal and he tries to do too much with the ball. Stockdale has his issues too, but if it's a 5050 call, I pick the Irish lad.
That said. I would pick Conway over both of them.

Healy looks lost in the loose. He doesn't make yards, knocks on the ball and to me looks like a passenger. I would bring E.O.S in and start Kilcoyne.

I would stick with Herring for now. Kelleher will get there, but a little early atm.

Keenan has locked down the 16 shirt, imo.

theVersatile

Dubinusa wrote: »

I think Stockdale should come right back into the team. Lowe, just isn't good enough for me. Defense is abysmal and he tries to do too much with the ball. Stockdale has his issues too, but if it's a 5050 call, I pick the Irish lad.
That said. I would pick Conway over both of them.

Healy looks lost in the loose. He doesn't make yards, knocks on the ball and to me looks like a passenger. I would bring E.O.S in and start Kilcoyne.

I would stick with Herring for now. Kelleher will get there, but a little early atm.

Keenan has locked down the 16 shirt, imo.

Keenan at sub hooker is an adventurous ploy.