Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

Dubinusa

theVersatile wrote: »

Keenan at sub hooker is an adventurous ploy.

Indeed. 15

leakyboots

Dubinusa wrote: »

I think Stockdale should come right back into the team. Lowe, just isn't good enough for me. Defense is abysmal and he tries to do too much with the ball. Stockdale has his issues too, but if it's a 5050 call, I pick the Irish lad.
That said. I would pick Conway over both of them.

Healy looks lost in the loose. He doesn't make yards, knocks on the ball and to me looks like a passenger. I would bring E.O.S in and start Kilcoyne.

I would stick with Herring for now. Kelleher will get there, but a little early atm.

Keenan has locked down the 16 shirt, imo.

Would agree with a lot of what you're saying but "the Irish lad" cheapens your post if you don't mind me saying

Fredinho

leakyboots wrote:

Would agree with a lot of what you're saying but "the Irish lad" cheapens your post if you don't mind me saying

Why?

Leinster fans have no problem talking about Munster saffers... Yep there were more leinster maoris on show today in green.

Anyways, neither can tackle for toffee but Stockdale is a much better and proven finisher at international level so Lowe can ride the pine or play in blue

Dubinusa

leakyboots wrote: »

Would agree with a lot of what you're saying but "the Irish lad" cheapens your post if you don't mind me saying

Sorry, I disagree. I think the foreign lads are given more of a chance. I think it maybe because of the effort put in, moving across the globe. I may be wrong though. Just an opinion.

Dubinusa

I would say that Lowe wouldn't be within a flyin snots hope of getting into the other sides, bar Italy. Stockdale would struggle to get in too.

salmocab

Dubinusa wrote: »

Sorry, I disagree. I think the foreign lads are given more of a chance. I think it maybe because of the effort put in, moving across the globe. I may be wrong though. Just an opinion.

Like when Park was eligible for a whole year before getting a cap? Or Aki not even making the bench currently and I think he’s on a central contract too another of your beliefs about unfair selections.
It’s utter nonsense the coaches pick whoever they think they should for a given game now you can certainly argue against some of the selections but they aren’t based on where they are from.

Burkie1203

Dubinusa wrote: »

I would stick with Herring for now. Kelleher will get there, but a little early atm.

Why is it a little early?

IMO Kelleher and Casey should be starting the next 2 games.

hold my beer

Kelleher is a beast in the loose but he's had problems with his lineouts. They do appear to be getting better though. Think I only saw 1 poor throw yesterday.

aloooof

hold my beer wrote: »

Kelleher is a beast in the loose but he's had problems with his lineouts. They do appear to be getting better though. Think I only saw 1 poor throw yesterday.

He also had one excellent one beyond the tail to Henshaw. I don’t know enough scrum-wise to suggest who has the edge there, but Kelleher brings so much more in the loose, I think I’d favour him over Herring at the moment.

irishbucsfan

I thought JGP and Casey were both great yesterday, particularly Casey off the bench. I wouldn't mess with that.

I think we'll see Earls coming back in to start but I'd like the rest of the backline kept as is.

A lot of questions about what happens in the pack though. I'd like to see Kilcoyne keep his place, but wouldn't be surprised to see Healy start and him on the bench. I wouldn't be totally shocked if the only change is JvDF coming into the 23, given the opposition, but then we're short on cover at 8 so maybe Baird drops out and one of Henderson/Ryan/Beirne move to the bench and Ruddock comes back into the 23.

dublin49

irishbucsfan wrote: »

I thought JGP and Casey were both great yesterday, particularly Casey off the bench. I wouldn't mess with that.

I think we'll see Earls coming back in to start but I'd like the rest of the backline kept as is.

A lot of questions about what happens in the pack though. I'd like to see Kilcoyne keep his place, but wouldn't be surprised to see Healy start and him on the bench. I wouldn't be totally shocked if the only change is JvDF coming into the 23, given the opposition, but then we're short on cover at 8 so maybe Baird drops out and one of Henderson/Ryan/Beirne move to the bench and Ruddock comes back into the 23.

Beirne has won 2 MON awards ,hes not moving to bench.

salmocab

dublin49 wrote: »

Beirne has won 2 MON awards ,hes not moving to bench.

Whilst I don’t think he’s likely to be out of the team I’m full sure management aren’t interested in what a pundit had to say about motm it’s an irrelevant thing that only really ever gets spoken about in places like this.

bilston

I'd go...

15 Keenan
14 Earls
13 Ringrose
12 Henshaw
11 Stockdale
10 Sexton
9 Murray
1 Healy
2 Kelleher
3 Furlong
4 Henderson
5 Ryan
6 Beirne
7 Connors
8 Stander

16 Herring
17 Kilcoyne
18 Porter
19 Baird
20 Conan
21 Casey
22 Burns
23 Lowe (very tough on Larmour, but all bases are covered with the starting backs and Lowe on the bench so Larmour's extra versatility isn't needed).

I think that team will beat Scotland and on current form would beat England in Dublin.

I was so impressed with both debutants yesterday. The tempo Casey brings and Baird's physicality were really eye catching. Both players just hit the ground running, that's a very encouraging sign IMO.

the baby bull elephant

dublin49 wrote: »

Beirne has won 2 MON awards ,hes not moving to bench.

I want to keep the same 4-5-6 from yesterday but because this is the internet and we have to be pedantic, Beirne 'only' has one MotM this tournament. Somehow Wyn Jones got it in the Wales match and Dulin got it in the France match.

irishbucsfan

dublin49 wrote: »

Beirne has won 2 MON awards ,hes not moving to bench.

I wouldn't be surprised. IF it's between Henderson/Beirne/Ryan then there's going to be a quality player unlucky to be on the bench regardless of what the selection is. But they're quite varied in what they bring so could completely come down to a tactical decision.

dublin49

irishbucsfan wrote: »

I wouldn't be surprised. IF it's between Henderson/Beirne/Ryan then there's going to be a quality player unlucky to be on the bench regardless of what the selection is. But they're quite varied in what they bring so could completely come down to a tactical decision.

If you are a coach under pressure ,coming into a game you might lose you do not drop the player most pundits are saying has been our best player so far,an if you do and things go wrong you would be slaughtered for it.

irishbucsfan

dublin49 wrote: »

If you are a coach under pressure ,coming into a game you might lose you do not drop the player most pundits are saying has been our best player so far,an if you do and things go wrong you would be slaughtered for it.

Listening to any pundit saying that and making a plan to beat Scotland based on fear of them would be a far greater concern.

Clegg

Our best second row pairing is Henderson and Ryan with Beirne either deputising from the bench or starting at blindside. Beirne is extremely skilled as a player, but I've now seen a lot of instances where he gets dumped back in contact. He just doesn't have the power to excel against the biggest packs. Not at second row anyway.

My preference is for Beirne to start at 6 for Munster and Ireland. It gives him license to display his full range of skills on the deck and the lineout, while also being able to carry a bit further out, where the defence isn't as loaded with monsters and he can use his athleticism and handling skills.

salmocab

dublin49 wrote: »

If you are a coach under pressure ,coming into a game you might lose you do not drop the player most pundits are saying has been our best player so far,an if you do and things go wrong you would be slaughtered for it.

That’s not how any rational coach picks his team.

Bazzo

Was working during the match so have only seen brief highlights. Did Henshaw come off injured? If he did does anyone know what sort of injury?

bilston

Is O'Mahony back for Scotland? I thought he wasn't back until the England game. That being the case why would we not keep Beirne at 6? What is the alternative? I'm assuming Doris won't be back for the rest of the championship?

I wouldn't bring POM back anyway until the 6Ns is over. He cost us massively with that red card.

Faugheen

"What's the alternative?"

People here forgetting about Rhys Ruddock already.

Former Former Former

I'd be very surprised if we don't see Beirne at 6 against Scotland. Ruddock was good enough against France, but he'll drop the bench I'd say.

bilston

Faugheen wrote: »

"What's the alternative?"

People here forgetting about Rhys Ruddock already.

Fair enough...my bad.

The reality is Ruddock isn't going to start ahead of Beirne if Beirne has to move to 6 to accommodate Henderson and Ryan.

Edit - the bench will be interesting, if you have three locks on the pitch then both Ruddock and Conan can bench. Personally I'd like to see Baird there, but it will be a close call for Farrell and co.

Dubinusa

salmocab wrote: »

That’s not how any rational coach picks his team.

Who said coaches are rational! 😆

sydthebeat

injuries permitting, there will be no changes against scotland.
maybe murray for casey on the bench

thats not how id want it, but thats how i see it going

irishbucsfan

Former Former Former wrote: »

I'd be very surprised if we don't see Beirne at 6 against Scotland. Ruddock was good enough against France, but he'll drop the bench I'd say.

I'd be surprised as well. Scotland have been very good at keeping possession in their 2 games so far. Henderson and Beirne have both been excellent at the defensive breakdown while Ryan's workrate in defense is phenomenal. I'd expect all three to start.

I could see a scenario where they want JvDF on the bench because they need someone on the bench who can also be very active in the defensive line (and that's a game made for his strengths), and then you just get a problem making that fit with 8 cover. That's the only scenario where I can see them not picking all three of Beirne/Ryan/Henderson.

Dubinusa

I think I'd go with
1. Kilcoyne
2. Herring
3. Porter
4. Henderson
5. Ryan
6. Beirne
7. VDF
8. Stander
9 . JGP
10. Sexton
11. Stockdale
12. Henshaw. If fit
13. Ringrose
14. Larmour
15. Keenan

16. Kelleher
17. Healy
18. Furlong
19. Ruddock
20. Connors or Conan
21. Murray
22. Burns
23 Lowe

I think Conan had a very good cameo yesterday and could be a difference maker late in a match. JGP is just so much faster around the rucks that Murray. He could provide the spark to keep Scotland off balance and unsettled defensively. Kilcoyne just offers a lot more in the loose than Healy. Healy looks off the pace. Of course, Joey may be bought in if he gets more minutes next week! I reckon RB is the odd man out now. Burns is obviously rated higher. I would love to see Casey involved, but I doubt he will be. What a good player, he looks like a long term international.

Kelleher had a bit of a breakthrough performance yesterday. His pass back to Sexton for Connor's first try showed real rugby IQ.

Any word on injuries as Henshaw, Larmour and Kelleher leaved the field early?

Faugheen

bilston wrote: »

Fair enough...my bad.

The reality is Ruddock isn't going to start ahead of Beirne if Beirne has to move to 6 to accommodate Henderson and Ryan.

Edit - the bench will be interesting, if you have three locks on the pitch then both Ruddock and Conan can bench. Personally I'd like to see Baird there, but it will be a close call for Farrell and co.

I think if the Irish team has learned anything over the last 2 years then Ruddock has to start against England.

Against England our biggest problem has been getting go-forward ball and having a BR of Beirne, Connors, Stander isn’t going to do that.