Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

Fredinho

Podge_irl wrote:

He was the starting 6, not the starting 7. We'll never know what would have happened if Doris had made it.

Doris was unavailable so it's a moot point.

For me Dan Leavy is the best 7 in Europe, but he's been injury plagued for 2+ years so it's hard to say he's the starting 7.

Heck if we'd everyone we wanted available would Doris even be the starting 8, seeing as it's not clear if Doris is selected ahead of Conan if both were fit for Leinster.

sydthebeat

i think hes played well enough since the restart to deserve a 2 year deal. i would also think that the pressure of his Ireland position under threat plus his contract running down would have played a part in that resurgence. Competition is always good.

the IRFU are shrewd enough in their dealings so im glad both parties came to an arrangement that they are both happy with.

molloyjh

POM started at 7 against both England and Scotland in the ANC. Against France in last years 6Ns he came on at 7 off the bench. Given his performances there and the fact he has basically played at 7 for Munster consistently since then, I think it's a pretty fair assumption that he was Irelands first choice 7 coming into the 6Ns. I certainly would have assumed as much anyway. Stander-POM-Doris was what I would have thought was our first choice back row.

Dave_The_Sheep

Of all the Irish players, he's probably contributed most to a Grand Slam this year, so I think it's a fair contract renewal.

Former Former Former

Does it really matter whether it's a central contract or not? Like, who cares anymore? There is zero practical difference.

POM is still a big part of the team, and like everyone, when someone better comes along he'll be dropped but not before then.

A nice bit of business.

TRC10

molloyjh wrote: »

POM started at 7 against both England and Scotland in the ANC. Against France in last years 6Ns he came on at 7 off the bench. Given his performances there and the fact he has basically played at 7 for Munster consistently since then, I think it's a pretty fair assumption that he was Irelands first choice 7 coming into the 6Ns. I certainly would have assumed as much anyway. Stander-POM-Doris was what I would have thought was our first choice back row.

VDF, Connors and Leavy are all far better, more natural options at 7. Doris will be 8 when he's back. Beirne, Stander and Ruddock are all better options at 6. This is pure lunacy from the IRFU and a waste of money. Typically shortsighted Irish rugby always living 4 years in the past with zero regard for the future.

arsebiscuits1

TRC10 wrote: »

VDF, Connors and Leavy are all far better, more natural options at 7. Doris will be 8 when he's back. Beirne, Stander and Ruddock are all better options at 6. This is pure lunacy from the IRFU and a waste of money. Typically shortsighted Irish rugby always living 4 years in the past with zero regard for the future.

Good old hating on the establishment.

People really will use any stick to beat the IRFU because they're incapable of seeing them as anything other than "the man"

TRC10

arsebiscuits1 wrote: »

Good old hating on the establishment.

People really will use any stick to beat the IRFU because they're incapable of seeing them as anything other than "the man"

Hahahahahahahahahahaha

thomond2006

TRC10 wrote: »

VDF, Connors and Leavy are all far better, more natural options at 7. Doris will be 8 when he's back. Beirne, Stander and Ruddock are all better options at 6. This is pure lunacy from the IRFU and a waste of money. Typically shortsighted Irish rugby always living 4 years in the past with zero regard for the future.

The Inbetween is mine

The reality is, POM is the best 6 in the country...he can switch effortlessly over to 7 and still make a difference in an international game....we don't have anyone else that can play both sides to that level?
Regardless of the result in the Scottish game, POM comes straight back into the side against England

aloooof

molloyjh wrote: »

POM started at 7 against both England and Scotland in the ANC. Against France in last years 6Ns he came on at 7 off the bench. Given his performances there and the fact he has basically played at 7 for Munster consistently since then, I think it's a pretty fair assumption that he was Irelands first choice 7 coming into the 6Ns. I certainly would have assumed as much anyway. Stander-POM-Doris was what I would have thought was our first choice back row.

This is my take exactly, as well. He was one of our best players during the ANC, imo, along with Doris, Porter and Henshaw. The amount of unwarranted criticism is reminiscent of what Heaslip used to attract at times also.

TRC10

The Inbetween is mine wrote: »

The reality is, POM is the best 6 in the country...he can switch effortlessly over to 7 and still make a difference in an international game....we don't have anyone else that can play both sides to that level?
Regardless of the result in the Scottish game, POM comes straight back into the side against England

Tell me with a straight face you'd start Omahony ahead of Doris, Beirne and Ruddock.

Fredinho

What I find interesting is Sexton 36 in July - the Irish captain gets 1 year, and has said he might not be available for the 23 World cup and people don't have an issue

POM, 32 in September (4 years younger than Sexton) the Irish vice captain, the man likely to be captain at 23 World cup gets a 2 year contract and it's an issue.

Regardless of our allegiances folks these are the two leaders of Irish Rugby. They're always going to get central contracts.

The Inbetween is mine

TRC10 wrote: »

Tell me with a straight face you'd start Omahony ahead of Doris, Beirne and Ruddock.

At 6... Every.Time.

sydthebeat

Fredinho wrote: »

What I find interesting is Sexton 36 in July - the Irish captain gets 1 year, and has said he might not be available for the 23 World cup and people don't have an issue

POM, 32 in September (4 years younger than Sexton) the Irish vice captain, the man likely to be captain at 23 World cup gets a 2 year contract and it's an issue.

Regardless of our allegiances folks these are the two leaders of Irish Rugby. They're always going to get central contracts.

sexton is currently the best player in his very specialist position in the country.

POM is one of a myrid of good back rowers we have.

there is no conspiracy

Sanjuro

Fredinho wrote: »

What I find interesting is Sexton 36 in July - the Irish captain gets 1 year, and has said he might not be available for the 23 World cup and people don't have an issue

POM, 32 in September (4 years younger than Sexton) the Irish vice captain, the man likely to be captain at 23 World cup gets a 2 year contract and it's an issue.

Regardless of our allegiances folks these are the two leaders of Irish Rugby. They're always going to get central contracts.

James Ryan will be the captain at the World Cup.

mr_cochise

TRC10 wrote: »

VDF, Connors and Leavy are all far better, more natural options at 7. Doris will be 8 when he's back. Beirne, Stander and Ruddock are all better options at 6. This is pure lunacy from the IRFU and a waste of money. Typically shortsighted Irish rugby always living 4 years in the past with zero regard for the future.

All that happened was that a great servant to Irish rugby has secured employment for another 2 years. Think about your comments on somebody who lives among us and you are essentially calling for him to be sacked. Maybe POM will not be first choice going forward but he still has a hell of a lot to offer. The tone of your post lacks integrity.

El_Duderino 09

The IRFU contracts are very strange at the moment. There used to be about 30 players on IRFU contracts pre 2008 recession. Then they dropped to 13 at one point. I'm not sure how many there are now. Now we have loads of players in the back row and they give a new IRFU contract to one of the players who isn't guaranteed his place in the team. Granted, he has been on good for recently. Do they ignore Bernie's form and pick POM because he is a centrally contracted player? Likewise they gave a contract to Healy who should be getting phased out. It seems more like a favour to Leinster and Munster to pay their wages rather than dump a high wage player on their books.

I thought they should be using the IRFU contracts to make sure to keep young players who could be stars for the next number of years. POM is playing great recently, but so is Bernie. You could argue about which one to play but you won't lose much by picking one over the other.

I don't think i understand what IRFU contracts are for.

TomsOnTheRoof

TRC10 wrote: »

Tell me with a straight face you'd start Omahony ahead of Doris, Beirne and Ruddock.

Ruddock doesn't come close to him. Ruddock is a fine player who's international caps have come in a piecemeal fashion. O'Mahony is a Lions test captain who has beaten New Zealand and has been a vital cog in a successful Irish team. Doris is playing 8 and so the comparison is useless. To my knowledge Beirne has never been selected at blindside ahead of POM in a tier 1 International.

kilns

Downlinz wrote: »

This is a fantasy dreamed up in the head of Leinster supporters and was never close to reality. Himself and Stander have been the cornerstones of the Irish backrow over the last few years and will continue to be into the next RWC. He was a Lions test captain and is currently part of the Irish leadership group for a reason.
No amount of wailing around D4 is going to change that.

This BS about Leinster munster etc.

It's about Ireland and what's best for Ireland

salmocab

kilns wrote: »

This BS about Leinster munster etc.

It's about Ireland and what's best for Ireland

Once someone puts in D4 you can take it they just have a chip on their shoulder

sydthebeat

salmocab wrote: »

Once someone puts in D4 you can take it they just have a chip on their shoulder

also shows a complete lack of awareness that the IRFUs headquarters are also in D4

kilns

The Inbetween is mine wrote: »

The reality is, POM is the best 6 in the country...he can switch effortlessly over to 7 and still make a difference in an international game....we don't have anyone else that can play both sides to that level?
Regardless of the result in the Scottish game, POM comes straight back into the side against England

He is not even the best 6 in his province and he is far far from an top international 7

sebdavis

I am personally struggling to understand the IRFU plans at the moment. POM has struggled since 2018 for any form and was dropped out of the team in the last 6 nations. Yes this season he has come back into some form but our back row has played better without him. With the players available all under 30, with Beirne pushing now to start. A couple of second rows which mean Beirne is going into backrow. To be honest I am surprised they have resigned POM, especially as he is over 30 and given a 2 year contract.

If I look at the team now with everyone fit I wouldn't see POM starting. If he doesn't start it is pointless having him on bench as he is not an impact sub. Maybe others do but I don't.

TomsOnTheRoof

kilns wrote: »

He is not even the best 6 in his province and he is far far from an top international 7

You state that as fact when it's an opinion. International coaching tickets tend not to agree with you.

kilns

TomsOnTheRoof wrote: »

Ruddock doesn't come close to him. Ruddock is a fine player who's international caps have come in a piecemeal fashion. O'Mahony is a Lions test captain who has beaten New Zealand and has been a vital cog in a successful Irish team. Doris is playing 8 and so the comparison is useless. To my knowledge Beirne has never been selected at blindside ahead of POM in a tier 1 International.

This is like saying Murray and Sexton were great for Ireland and starting lions but time catches up with everyone the past is the past people need to move forwards and not look backwards

No doubt POM will be in and around squads but if Ireland want to improve and move forward POM is not the type of player to help with that

Former Former Former

Fredinho wrote: »

What I find interesting is Sexton 36 in July - the Irish captain gets 1 year, and has said he might not be available for the 23 World cup and people don't have an issue

There have been literally thousands of posts on this board about the possibility of Sexton being our out-half in 2023, very few of them happy about the prospect. I think people saw the 1-year deal as tacit acknowledgement that he's on the last lap and were happy with that.

Fredinho wrote: »

POM, 32 in September (4 years younger than Sexton) the Irish vice captain, the man likely to be captain at 23 World cup gets a 2 year contract and it's an issue.

Regardless of our allegiances folks these are the two leaders of Irish Rugby. They're always going to get central contracts.

Isn't James Ryan the vice-captain? I think it's very unlikely that POM will be captain in 2023.

kilns

TomsOnTheRoof wrote: »

You state that as fact when it's an opinion. International coaching tickets tend not to agree with you.

I seem to recall for Farrell's first game he was dropped and only got in due to injuries and a full back row selection has not been available in the last 2 years so it's opinion also to call him the best 6 or 7 in Ireland.

molloyjh

I know in many ways the number on the of the shirt doesn't quite matter so much these days, but personally I think Stander is a better 6 than he is an 8 from a more traditional standpoint. And at international level, Stander is, for my money, the best 6 we have. Ruddock can certainly challenge him at provincial level, but at Test level CJ has a long history of delivering to a high and consistent standard.

Doris at 8 brings a different carrying game to most of other options other than maybe Conan. It's something I think we need given how we want to play. Which is why I think the Scotland selection is going to be interesting. Do we start Conan at 8 or CJ. Beirne deserves to start but is he what we need? Either way, the idea of having that dynamism at 8 both in open play and off the back of the scrum is an attractive one.

So on that basis we effectively have Stander and Doris locked in at 6 and 8 respectfully. The bug question is who then starts at 7. I think POM has brought a lot to the table from there in the few games we've seen him play. He has the ability to be a really good link man (as that offload, albeit playing at 6, highlighted quite superbly). He's athletic as we saw in some of his wide involvements vs Scotland in Nov. He then obviously offers a line out option that none of his competition can match. And that doesn't even touch on his leadership abilities, something we've shown at times that we lack when guys like Sexton or Ryan aren't around.

kilns

molloyjh wrote: »

I know in many ways the number on the of the shirt doesn't quite matter so much these days, but personally I think Stander is a better 6 than he is an 8 from a more traditional standpoint. And for, at international level, Stander is, for my money, the best 6 we have. Ruddock can certainly challenge him at provincial level, but at Test level CJ has a long history of delivering to a high and consistent standard.

Doris at 8 brings a different carrying game to most of other options other than maybe Conan. It's something I think we need given how we want to play. Which is why I think the Scotland selection is going to be interesting. Do we start Conan at 8 or CJ. Beirne deserves to start but is he what we need? Either way, the idea of having that dynamism at 8 both in open play and off the back of the scrum is an attractive one.

So on that basis we effectively have Stander and Doris locked in at 6 and 8 respectfully. The bug question is who then starts at 7. I think POM has brought a lot to the table from there in the few games we've seen him play. He has the ability to be a really good link man (as that offload, albeit playing at 6, highlighted quite superbly). He's athletic as we saw in some of his wide involvements vs Scotland in Nov. He then obviously offers a line out option that none of his competition can match. And that doesn't even touch on his leadership abilities, something we've shown at times that we lack when guys like Sexton or Ryan aren't around.

I agree Stander is Irelands best 6

I don't think you can judge one offload as being a fantastic link player and his athleticism would be below par compared to his peers. As far as leadership skills go, his last involvement in international rugby was not a endorsement of his leadership