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Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

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    #4922
    The Inbetween is mine
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,705 ✭✭✭The Inbetween is mine


    Interested Observer wrote: »
    He can be as happy as he likes, but be nice if he could win a few games.

    As for the underlined, the entire rugby forum and probably 99% of boards.ie falls into that category.

    Shhhh... listen...do you all hear that...it's a bee farting!


    But joking aside...I agree...we need to actually convert chances into scores.....
    I think, if all goes well for Joey tomorrow night...he's back into the Ireland squad for Scotland....and straight away the mindset amongst fans will change... nevermind the squad..but it's just my opinion


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    #4923
    sydthebeat
    Subscribers Posts: 41,589 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    The Inbetween is mine wrote: »
    Shhhh... listen...do you all hear that...it's a bee farting!


    But joking aside...I agree...we need to actually convert chances into scores.....
    I think, if all goes well for Joey tomorrow night...he's back into the Ireland squad for Scotland....and straight away the mindset amongst fans will change... nevermind the squad..but it's just my opinion

    You do realise joey is on the bench yeah?

    Right now he's not within an asses roar of getting back onto the Irish squad for the Scotland game


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    #4924
    sebdavis
    Closed Accounts Posts: 891 ✭✭✭sebdavis


    Fredinho wrote: »
    Cheers for adding the latter two, wasn't sure how far the group stretched.

    Glad I'm not the only one who thinks Henderson should be next in line. Vastly underrated and IMHO he should be starting for the lions if there is a test series this year. Likely with AWJ or Itoje.

    Ryan has the ability to jump into the mix and be the best of the lot, wouldn't deny that. I just haven't seen that form in a long time.

    Ryan got knocked back because of injury and should have been given more time to come back in Autumn. He has come back into form now but I still wouldn't have him as captain. Hendo has a Lions tour and 2 WC's to his name. When fit and firing should be in the team. He has also been Ulster captain before.

    No idea why we would want to rush a young player into captain. He will have plenty of time


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    #4925
    sebdavis
    Closed Accounts Posts: 891 ✭✭✭sebdavis


    The Inbetween is mine wrote: »
    Shhhh... listen...do you all hear that...it's a bee farting!


    But joking aside...I agree...we need to actually convert chances into scores.....
    I think, if all goes well for Joey tomorrow night...he's back into the Ireland squad for Scotland....and straight away the mindset amongst fans will change... nevermind the squad..but it's just my opinion

    Last thing Joey needs now is been catapulted into the Irish squad for a potential game against England. It would be madness.


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    #4926
    The Inbetween is mine
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,705 ✭✭✭The Inbetween is mine


    sebdavis wrote: »
    Last thing Joey needs now is been catapulted into the Irish squad for a potential game against England. It would be madness.

    I don't disagree... but I have an awful feeling it's going to happen


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    #4927
    KaneToad
    Registered Users Posts: 3,353 ✭✭✭KaneToad


    Fredinho wrote: »
    He won't, Iain Henderson will be ahead of him. Ryan's firm in green has been equally as poor as O'mahony. I'd be starting Henderson and Beirne ahead of him on current form

    We currently have two world class players James Ryan & Tadhgh Furlong. No one else would threaten for a spot on the world's top teams...

    Ryan will be starting.


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    #4928
    TRC10
    Registered Users Posts: 3,941 ✭✭✭TRC10


    KaneToad wrote: »
    We currently have two world class players James Ryan & Tadhgh Furlong. No one else would threaten for a spot on the world's top teams...

    Ryan will be starting.

    Henshaw and Ringrose would certainly challenge for a spot on the world top teams.


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    #4929
    aloooof
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 10,597 Mod ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    The Inbetween is mine wrote: »
    I don't disagree... but I have an awful feeling it's going to happen

    I don't see it happening, tbh. Look at how patient they were with Leavy. We've more of a need at 10, but I imagine it'll be similar with Joey.


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    #4930
    sebdavis
    Closed Accounts Posts: 891 ✭✭✭sebdavis


    The Inbetween is mine wrote: »
    I don't disagree... but I have an awful feeling it's going to happen

    He had a few mins the last night and maybe a few mins this weekend.
    I don't see anyone in the Irish management bringing him in


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    #4931
    Bluwave
    Registered Users Posts: 91 ✭✭Bluwave


    The Inbetween is mine wrote: »
    I don't disagree... but I have an awful feeling it's going to happen

    So we are done caring about billy burns and his confidence are we?


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    #4932
    Fredinho
    Registered Users Posts: 67 ✭✭Fredinho


    KaneToad wrote:
    We currently have two world class players James Ryan & Tadhgh Furlong. No one else would threaten for a spot on the world's top teams...

    Agree to disagree

    Ryan is not close to world class right now. And neither is Furlong. That's not too say when injury free and in full flow and form they aren't right up there. But neither are within an asses roar right now.

    IMO henderson as things stand starts with Ryan and Beirne battling it out for the other spot. Luckily we can accommodate all the right now.

    I'd also throw a fully fit Dan Leavy into the mix for a world 15. There's none better in the northern hemisphere and I couldn't maher a better 7 in the southern hemisphere either. ,


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    #4933
    Fredinho
    Registered Users Posts: 67 ✭✭Fredinho


    sebdavis wrote:
    Ryan got knocked back because of injury and should have been given more time to come back in Autumn. He has come back into form now but I still wouldn't have him as captain. Hendo has a Lions tour and 2 WC's to his name. When fit and firing should be in the team. He has also been Ulster captain before.

    No idea why we would want to rush a young player into captain. He will have plenty of time

    Agree with all of that seb


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    #4934
    bilston
    Registered Users Posts: 17,802 ✭✭✭✭bilston


    sebdavis wrote: »
    Ryan got knocked back because of injury and should have been given more time to come back in Autumn. He has come back into form now but I still wouldn't have him as captain. Hendo has a Lions tour and 2 WC's to his name. When fit and firing should be in the team. He has also been Ulster captain before.

    No idea why we would want to rush a young player into captain. He will have plenty of time

    Right now I think the next captain will be either Ryan or Henderson. Ryan might be the slight favourite as he has two WCs in him, Hendy probably has one. Ryan could give a bit more long term stability. But then Henderson is captain if his province so has that leadership experience at pro level. Ryan obviously has vast underage captaincy experience.

    But then you have to factor Ryan Baird into the equation. He looks a seriously top top prospect, so it will be interesting to see how selection unfolds over the next year or two. A lot of people on this MB think Baird will take Henderson's spot as a matter of course. I dont think its clear cut. Genuinely I dont think there is much between Ryan and Henderson at all so I think either could be vulnerable to Baird in the long term. Just my opinion, and probably unpopular on this particular MB.


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    #4935
    Podge_irl
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 26,886 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    There isn't much between Ryan and Henderson when Henderson is at his consistent best. He is prone to drifting out of games though.


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    #4936
    TRC10
    Registered Users Posts: 3,941 ✭✭✭TRC10


    Podge_irl wrote: »
    when Henderson is at his consistent best.

    That's quite an oxymoron


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    #4937
    Podge_irl
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 26,886 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    TRC10 wrote: »
    That's quite an oxymoron

    Yeah somewhat, that's fair.

    When he is consistently at 90% of his capability then he is excellent and that is what the truly great players do.


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    #4938
    TRC10
    Registered Users Posts: 3,941 ✭✭✭TRC10


    Podge_irl wrote: »
    Yeah somewhat, that's fair.

    When he is consistently at 90% of his capability then he is excellent and that is what the truly great players do.

    That's just it. He can be the best lock in the world one week. And be completely anonymous the next.

    Having said that, he's been very good in every game so far this year so long may that continue because on his day he's as good as any lock in the world.


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    #4939
    aloooof
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 10,597 Mod ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    bilston wrote: »
    Right now I think the next captain will be either Ryan or Henderson. Ryan might be the slight favourite as he has two WCs in him, Hendy probably has one. Ryan could give a bit more long term stability. But then Henderson is captain if his province so has that leadership experience at pro level. Ryan obviously has vast underage captaincy experience.

    But then you have to factor Ryan Baird into the equation. He looks a seriously top top prospect, so it will be interesting to see how selection unfolds over the next year or two. A lot of people on this MB think Baird will take Henderson's spot as a matter of course. I dont think its clear cut. Genuinely I dont think there is much between Ryan and Henderson at all so I think either could be vulnerable to Baird in the long term. Just my opinion, and probably unpopular on this particular MB.

    I wonder could Doris be a candidate in the medium term.


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    #4940
    bilston
    Registered Users Posts: 17,802 ✭✭✭✭bilston


    aloooof wrote: »
    I wonder could Doris be a candidate in the medium term.

    Maybe after 2023. He obviously needs a lot more caps.

    Although was it Dion O'Cuinneagain who captained Ireland on his debut? He was a pretty good player but jeepers those were dark days for Irish rugby!


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    #4941
    Podge_irl
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 26,886 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    aloooof wrote: »
    I wonder could Doris be a candidate in the medium term.

    Not unless he actually manages to get back playing...

    There is no "obvious" candidate. I suspect it will be between Ryan and Henderson as well. Ryan was the clear favourite a year ago but he's not been hitting quite the same heights anymore and its a lot to put on a young player.


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    #4942
    bilston
    Registered Users Posts: 17,802 ✭✭✭✭bilston


    Podge_irl wrote: »
    Not unless he actually manages to get back playing...

    There is no "obvious" candidate. I suspect it will be between Ryan and Henderson as well. Ryan was the clear favourite a year ago but he's not been hitting quite the same heights anymore and its a lot to put on a young player.

    I think we forget how young he is. He could be made captain after the 2023 WC and still have the job for another two World Cup cycles, I think he will be 34 or 35 in 2031.


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    #4943
    Water John
    Registered Users Posts: 21,421 ✭✭✭✭Water John


    You also have the position of pack leader. The captain may be one of the forwards but the pack leader could be someone else. Not sure about the role in the Irish set up.


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    #4944
    The Inbetween is mine
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,705 ✭✭✭The Inbetween is mine


    Bluwave wrote: »
    So we are done caring about billy burns and his confidence are we?

    You can hold his hand if you wish


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    #4945
    Sanjuro
    Registered Users Posts: 4,236 ✭✭✭Sanjuro


    Fredinho wrote: »
    He won't, Iain Henderson will be ahead of him.


    Nah.


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    #4946
    Podge_irl
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 26,886 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    bilston wrote: »
    I think we forget how young he is. He could be made captain after the 2023 WC and still have the job for another two World Cup cycles, I think he will be 34 or 35 in 2031.

    Yeah absolutely. He's as old as BOD was when he was made captain, albeit I think that probably wasn't the best choice.

    He has partly been thrown into the fray from a lack of alternatives - once Sexton got it POM's chances were gone I think. They are too close in age and we don't need another stopgap captain. Unfair or otherwise, Stander is unlikely and then you basically have Henderson and Ryan as the go-to choices. Henderson has done himself some benefit with his more consistent performances of late but there is a reason he has slightly yo-yoed in and out of the team.

    Ryan just comes across as a player who will a) be around a while and b)never really struggle for his place. Not sure who else fits that bill. Ringrose definitely but not keen on a 13 as captain.


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    #4947
    Fredinho
    Registered Users Posts: 67 ✭✭Fredinho


    bilston wrote:
    Although was it Dion O'Cuinneagain who captained Ireland on his debut? He was a pretty good player but jeepers those were dark days for Irish rugby!


    Rob Saunders might be who you're thinking about


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    #4948
    Former Former Former
    Registered Users Posts: 5,984 ✭✭✭Former Former Former


    Fredinho wrote: »
    Rob Saunders might be who you're thinking about

    Yep, absolutely mad.

    O'Cuinneagain wasn't far behind, got the captaincy in a ridiculously short time due to a) Keith Wood being stripped after a row with the IRFU and b) absence of anyone else remotely credible.

    Jesus the 90s were grim.


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    #4949
    bilston
    Registered Users Posts: 17,802 ✭✭✭✭bilston


    Fredinho wrote: »
    Rob Saunders might be who you're thinking about

    Yeah, you're right.

    Actually I originally thought it was Chris Saverimutto. But yeah youre right it was Rob Saunders.


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    #4950
    awec
    Administrators Posts: 53,814 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    easy peasy wrote: »
    While I don't agree with POM getting a central contract, I think the decision may have been made as a more big picture move.

    Munster have four centrally contracted players, Earls, Murray, Stander and O'Mahony. Earls is up in the summer, as is Stander. Realistically Earls won't renew and that will go to Jordan Larmour or Hugo Keenan or won't be given to anyone. Stander will hopefully sign on but if he doesn't, that one is going to Doris.

    This would leave Munster with two and Leinster with 9-10? This obviously doesn't work and would mean Munster would seriously struggle to balance the books while Leinster would be able to afford a massive squad.

    Maybe POM was just the wrong man in the right place.

    Good post. I think this is a much bigger factor than people think.


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    #4951
    BonnieSituation
    Registered Users Posts: 19,067 ✭✭✭✭BonnieSituation


    bilston wrote: »
    I think we forget how young he is. He could be made captain after the 2023 WC and still have the job for another two World Cup cycles, I think he will be 34 or 35 in 2031.

    Jesus.

    I could have done without seeing that today. :mad:


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