Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

kilns · 05-03-2021 3:25pm

Must love hardship wrote: »

What do people think about farrell courting the lions assistant coach position?

Obviously no guarantee a lions tour will go ahead and also no guarantee of an Irish tour this summer either v the Pacific island teams over there or in oz.

I think if he prioritises a potential back up role on the lions v south africa over his head coach position with ireland he should close the door behind himself on his way out.

Some could argue the point that a lot of irelands main players would be on the lions and playing against South africa who we will meet at the world cup.

But for me this summer 2 years out from a world cup working with a lot of younger fringe players potentially winning their first caps and being in camp for 5 or 6 weeks is more important than his personal gratification of being involved in the lions.

If he is available to Gatland, Gatland will take him as he is a World Class assistant coach but perhaps not a world class head (based on evidence so far)

Must love hardship · 05-03-2021 3:44pm

arsebiscuits1 wrote: »

Could learn an awful lot from coaching the Lions and be better for it.

He could... but he could learn an awful lot about some of the younger irish players by coaching them and gaining head coach experience on a tour which he needs prior to world cup.

sydthebeat · 05-03-2021 4:09pm

Must love hardship wrote: »

He could... but he could learn an awful lot about some of the younger irish players by coaching them and gaining head coach experience on a tour which he needs prior to world cup.

what tour?

theVersatile · 05-03-2021 4:19pm

Did Wales fans care when Gatland left to do the Lions?

Dubinusa · 05-03-2021 5:00pm

Loose head certainly is problematic. Healy looks slow and underpowered in the loose. Kilcoyne only a year younger. I can understand why Healy got the contract and fair play to him. But, one loose head surely must raise his head over the parapet over the next year!
I think Killer will pass Healy over the next year. He's so much better as a carrying threat. But behind him?
Ed Byrne to me doesn't cut the mustard. He's a good player and is mobile, but he's not international class, imo. E.O.S is probably the next in line. He needs to up him game a bit, obviously. I reckon he can do a job for us and I 'd be surprised if he's not in the 23 next year.

We're low on quality at loose head and moving Porter back would be nuts, imo. Who becomes the back up tight head? O'Toole is favorite and I think is not ready yet.

The top young loose heads would be
Wycherly, a long way off atm
Milne, a long way off
Duggan, I haven't seen much of him
Liam O'Connor, needs to get past Cronin.

James Cronin is an option. But he is 30 years old and hasn't made a camp in years. Dennis Buckley is 30 and has not made a camp. Peter Dooley is a good provincial player. Jack McGrath hasn't got back to form and is 31.

I suppose the coaching team will stick with Healy and Kilcoyne until there's a viable alternative.

Must love hardship · 05-03-2021 5:05pm

sydthebeat wrote: »

what tour?

A potential tour in Australia taking on Pacific Island teams..

Must love hardship · 05-03-2021 5:11pm

theVersatile wrote: »

Did Wales fans care when Gatland left to do the Lions?

Good point. However he took a 6 months plus sabbatical to be lions head coach. He had head coach experience with Wales and a world cup under his belt.

We are talking about a head coach with less than 2 years head coach experience leaving his team mid world cup cycle to be an assistant coach. Id like to know where his priorities lie.

Obviously if we have no irish tour you'd imagine
there will be some summer camp arranged for players not playing lions rugby this summer.

tgdaly · 05-03-2021 5:39pm

Must love hardship wrote: »

A potential tour in Australia taking on Pacific Island teams..

Yeah this is rumored alright, nothing will be confirmed until the end of the month they've said

sebdavis · 05-03-2021 6:04pm

Must love hardship wrote: »

What do people think about farrell courting the lions assistant coach position?

Obviously no guarantee a lions tour will go ahead and also no guarantee of an Irish tour this summer either v the Pacific island teams over there or in oz.

I think if he prioritises a potential back up role on the lions v south africa over his head coach position with ireland he should close the door behind himself on his way out.

Some could argue the point that a lot of irelands main players would be on the lions and playing against South africa who we will meet at the world cup.

But for me this summer 2 years out from a world cup working with a lot of younger fringe players potentially winning their first caps and being in camp for 5 or 6 weeks is more important than his personal gratification of being involved in the lions.

Has Farrell said he is going on the Lions tour or even thinking about it?

Dubinusa · 05-03-2021 6:21pm

How many matches on the tour? I would like to see us play Japan. Or Fiji!!

sebdavis · 05-03-2021 6:54pm

Dubinusa wrote: »

How many matches on the tour? I would like to see us play Japan. Or Fiji!!

Australia need money and they lost out on the 2 game tour last season. I expect they will want the 2 games plus maybe a pacific island team in Aus

sydthebeat · 05-03-2021 7:08pm

Must love hardship wrote: »

A potential tour in Australia taking on Pacific Island teams..

pipe dream at this stage

if the lions games are confirmed ahead of any irish tour being confirmed, then of course he should go with the lions.

Must love hardship · 05-03-2021 8:49pm

sebdavis wrote: »

Australia need money and they lost out on the 2 game tour last season. I expect they will want the 2 games plus maybe a pacific island team in Aus

I think Australia are playing France in a 3 game tour this summer

Must love hardship · 05-03-2021 8:55pm

sydthebeat wrote: »

pipe dream at this stage

if the lions games are confirmed ahead of any irish tour being confirmed, then of course he should go with the lions.

I doubt the irfu want to give players the months of May( if dont get to h Cup finals) June and July off..

If no tours you'd imagine they will be playing Wales or Scotland or similar over 3 games

dublin49 · 05-03-2021 10:07pm

Carty playing well and kicking well,should be closer to another cap than he is.

thomond2006 · 05-03-2021 10:13pm

dublin49 wrote: »

Carty playing well and kicking well,should be closer to another cap than he is.

You're ignoring half of his performance presumably.

Former Former Former · 05-03-2021 10:18pm

dublin49 wrote: »

Carty playing well and kicking well,should be closer to another cap than he is.

Tbh I think he's shown exactly why he can't get into the Ireland squad

theVersatile · 05-03-2021 10:52pm

Mixed the good with the bad. Haley did more for his Irish chances than Carty IMO.

Can see Thornbury picking up a cap this Summer if some of Beirne, Ryan, Henderson go Lions touring.

Buer · 05-03-2021 11:01pm

Too late for Haley to get into the Irish squad this time but if we're going on a summer tour, he's firmly in the conversation.

Carty was Carty yet again. Sublime moments punctured by incredibly basic errors. I don't think there's another 10 that would have executed that grubber and break in the shoulder. The awareness and pass for the opening try was great.

Then he also managed to get blocked down, kick it dead, miss touch and lose 40m with a long, off target pass which turned if over on halfway. He makes it very easy to ignore him as a potential test option.

The best performer from those released was Aki (who isn't going to feature at this stage barring injury regardless). Casey was grand. Great delivery but blocked down twice I think. Murray on form is still a better option overall as unpalatable as that may be to some.

JOD was good again but not going to be in the conversation due to the options in the back row. Blade was good but similar situation.

Conway clearly isn't right. He doesn't have any business at Carton House currently.

aloooof · 05-03-2021 11:38pm

Buer wrote: »

Too late for Haley to get into the Irish squad this time but if we're going on a summer tour, he's firmly in the conversation.

Carty was Carty yet again. Sublime moments punctured by incredibly basic errors. I don't think there's another 10 that would have executed that grubber and break in the shoulder. The awareness and pass for the opening try was great.

Then he also managed to get blocked down, kick it dead, miss touch and lose 40m with a long, off target pass which turned if over on halfway. He makes it very easy to ignore him as a potential test option.

The best performer from those released was Aki (who isn't going to feature at this stage barring injury regardless). Casey was grand. Great delivery but blocked down twice I think. Murray on form is still a better option overall as unpalatable as that may be to some.

JOD was good again but not going to be in the conversation due to the options in the back row. Blade was good but similar situation.

Conway clearly isn't right. He doesn't have any business at Carton House currently.

In terms of Ireland camp, I don’t think Shane Daly was bad 2nite, bit it felt like had one of his poorer games this season. Tho he was on the periphery at points as well, thru no fault of his own. He was always unlikely to get much game time, but I don’t think he’s advanced his case 2nite.

Dubinusa · 06-03-2021 12:01am

Just looked at the scores from the premiership. Some cliffhangers there. L.I scored 32 and lost by 1.
I also notice that McGinty is humming along nicely for Sale! Anyone think we lost out on the good 10. Would he have been in the conversation?

sydthebeat · 06-03-2021 12:05am

Dubinusa wrote: »

Just looked at the scores from the premiership. Some cliffhangers there. L.I scored 32 and lost by 1.
I also notice that McGinty is humming along nicely for Sale! Anyone think we lost out on the good 10. Would he have been in the conversation?

LI game really wasn't close.

It was 33 - 18 on 79 mins... Wayne Barnes was instrumental in Irish getting the LBP and TBP.
Fair dues to them for turning down a LBP pen to kick to the corner and scoring from the resultant maul

leakyboots · 06-03-2021 12:24am

Buer wrote: »

Too late for Haley to get into the Irish squad this time but if we're going on a summer tour, he's firmly in the conversation.

Carty was Carty yet again. Sublime moments punctured by incredibly basic errors. I don't think there's another 10 that would have executed that grubber and break in the shoulder. The awareness and pass for the opening try was great.

Then he also managed to get blocked down, kick it dead, miss touch and lose 40m with a long, off target pass which turned if over on halfway. He makes it very easy to ignore him as a potential test option.

The best performer from those released was Aki (who isn't going to feature at this stage barring injury regardless). Casey was grand. Great delivery but blocked down twice I think. Murray on form is still a better option overall as unpalatable as that may be to some.

JOD was good again but not going to be in the conversation due to the options in the back row. Blade was good but similar situation.

Conway clearly isn't right. He doesn't have any business at Carton House currently.

Agree with all of that bar Conway, what did he do so wrong?

Zzippy · 06-03-2021 12:28am

leakyboots wrote: »

Agree with all of that bar Conway, what did he do so wrong?

I was distracted by a cranky baby here but I barely noticed he was playing. He certainly didn't seem to have any influence on the game. Not sure what Buer is referring to about not being right?

thomond2006 · 06-03-2021 12:31am

Zzippy wrote: »

I was distracted by a cranky baby here but I barely noticed he was playing. He certainly didn't seem to have any influence on the game. Not sure what Buer is referring to about not being right?

He made one defensive error for the try and then another that was spared by a pass not going to hand.

theVersatile · 06-03-2021 12:34am

thomond2006 wrote: »

He made one defensive error for the try and then another that was spared by a pass not going to hand.

First one he got done by Aki - just enough legal contact to knock him off balance and stop him making the read out the back.

The second one - are you on about the pass Carty threw over the wingers head? Would you not say that it was Conway coming into the space that forced that error?

thomond2006 · 06-03-2021 1:03am

theVersatile wrote: »

The second one - are you on about the pass Carty threw over the wingers head? Would you not say that it was Conway coming into the space that forced that error?

You might be right, one to watch back.

TRC10 · 06-03-2021 1:08am

theVersatile wrote: »

First one he got done by Aki - just enough legal contact to knock him off balance and stop him making the read out the back.

The second one - are you on about the pass Carty threw over the wingers head? Would you not say that it was Conway coming into the space that forced that error?

On your own line, usually its actually the full back who covers the last man. Nevertheless it was phenomenal vision and skill by Carty to pull that pass off but munster were caught extremely narrow there.

06-03-2021 3:01am

Dubinusa wrote: »

Just looked at the scores from the premiership. Some cliffhangers there. L.I scored 32 and lost by 1.
I also notice that McGinty is humming along nicely for Sale! Anyone think we lost out on the good 10. Would he have been in the conversation?

Possibly but his rise to become a Premiership outhalf is incredibly improbably. He didn't really feature at underage level but took a few chances that came his way and turned some heads at the Rugby World Cup. Most players in Ireland have to be top in their position to make it to a World Cup. McGinty did the world cup first and then became a professional outhalf.

Great story, but I don't think you can blame anyone in Ireland. We wouldn't know who he is if he hadn't gotten that shot with the US team.

Buer · 06-03-2021 8:16am

Zzippy wrote: »

I was distracted by a cranky baby here but I barely noticed he was playing. He certainly didn't seem to have any influence on the game. Not sure what Buer is referring to about not being right?

He has missed a chunk of rugby in recent times for personal reasons whatever they are. He has looked a shadow of the guy he was 12 months ago. Largely anonymous and making a couple of notable errors each game.

Maybe he's just completely lost form. Either way, guys like Wootton, DK and Haley all deserve calls into the Ireland squad ahead of him at this point.

Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

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