Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

Podge_irl

Lost Ormond wrote: »

It shouldnt yet. ROG doesnt want it yet and i think we need someone with far more head coaching experience.

I wouldnt pick Leo unless you get Lancaster as well and does Lancaster even want to go back to international coaching? Seems very happy where he is right now and would be surprised he would want to change whats working well for him

Regardless of whether ROG would be an option, he wouldn't take it. You only get to coach Ireland once and he clearly wants to build up to that role.

OneLungDavy

Podge_irl wrote: »

Regardless of whether ROG would be an option, he wouldn't take it. You only get to coach Ireland once and he clearly wants to build up to that role.

He'd be stupid to turn it down if it's his dream job. The chance may not come around again(if hypothetically he was offered the job after the 6 Nations).

Squidgy Black

OneLungDavy wrote: »

He'd be stupid to turn it down if it's his dream job. The chance may not come around again(if hypothetically he was offered the job after the 6 Nations).

He'd be far from stupid. He's only 44, if he takes on the head coach role with a squad that he feels is in a bit of a transition period and it goes wrong, that's a fairly bad mark on his CV. Especially given he's witnessing what life would be like as a national head coach with little HC experience.

There's no problem with him building up experience elsewhere for a few more years until he feels like he might be in a better position for it.

IRFU seems to pick from the provinces or from within the setup. With that in mind the only names I can think of is Dan McFarland or VanGrann.

Don't think Friend has done enough with Connacht to be in contention and Leo won't get the job solo without Lancaster. No indication that Lancaster has interest in that kind of job as he seems settled into his role at Leinster and has a lot of coaching and leadership stuff going on outside of Leinster.

Dan has done a pretty good job with Ulster and I rate him higher than VanGrann personally. I reckon you could list a bunch of top coaches from around the world and Easterby would be more likely than most of them.

OneLungDavy

Squidgy Black wrote: »

He'd be far from stupid. He's only 44, if he takes on the head coach role with a squad that he feels is in a bit of a transition period and it goes wrong, that's a fairly bad mark on his CV. Especially given he's witnessing what life would be like as a national head coach with little HC experience.

There's no problem with him building up experience elsewhere for a few more years until he feels like he might be in a better position for it.

It sounds good in theory. In a perfect world he builds up to the Ireland job, but he's only as good as his latest job. His career could spiral downwards at any point then the IRFU won't fancy him. Assuming he will get the job further down the line is a dangerous move.

Podge_irl

OneLungDavy wrote: »

He'd be stupid to turn it down if it's his dream job. The chance may not come around again(if hypothetically he was offered the job after the 6 Nations).

He could almost definitely be in charge of Munster by now if that is what he wanted. He will be all too aware of the post playing career of e.g. Martin Johnson and steer well clear of the Ireland job until he thinks himself ready for it. It does, after all, have a good chance of being his last coaching job.

ClanofLams

[Deleted User] wrote: »

IRFU seems to pick from the provinces or from within the setup. With that in mind the only names I can think of is Dan McFarland or VanGrann.

Don't think Friend has done enough with Connacht to be in contention and Leo won't get the job solo without Lancaster. No indication that Lancaster has interest in that kind of job as he seems settled into his role at Leinster and has a lot of coaching and leadership stuff going on outside of Leinster.

Dan has done a pretty good job with Ulster and I rate him higher than VanGrann personally. I reckon you could list a bunch of top coaches from around the world and Easterby would be more likely than most of them.

True and may well turn out to be accurate again but the last two coaches also had won multiple Heineken cups, no one of that calibre currently at provincial level although achievements of Cullen & Lancaster obviously close and combo would be strong contenders.

It’s a small enough sample of head coaches appointed in the professional era and I would be pretty surprised/disappointed if IRFU limited their options in such a way.

bilston

Deleted User wrote: »

IRFU seems to pick from the provinces or from within the setup. With that in mind the only names I can think of is Dan McFarland or VanGrann.

Don't think Friend has done enough with Connacht to be in contention and Leo won't get the job solo without Lancaster. No indication that Lancaster has interest in that kind of job as he seems settled into his role at Leinster and has a lot of coaching and leadership stuff going on outside of Leinster.

Dan has done a pretty good job with Ulster and I rate him higher than VanGrann personally. I reckon you could list a bunch of top coaches from around the world and Easterby would be more likely than most of them.

Dan could be very a very good coach with (as much as it pains me to say it) better players. Ulster seem to play high risk rugby at times, that leads to errors. With better players it would lead to fewer errors and more return. It would be interesting alright.

theVersatile

I've mentioned before that I'd love to see Larkham get his hands on the back line

Bazzo

It's possible that Lancaster, who felt badly treated for being sacked from the England job and has said he prefers things at club level, might not be falling over himself to take an international job replacing a coach who has been just been sacked.

dublin49

I agree that ROGs hunger for the top job might be tempered by Eddie O sullivans experience.has hardly worked since in coaching .I wud imagine he wud prefer a good stint with Munster and then the top Job.No mention of Pat Lam.

bayern

ClanofLams wrote: »

Wouldn’t agree with O’Gara to be honest, think he has done everything right and very likely to be head coach of Ireland one day but eighteen months into his first head coaching gig doesn’t strike me as the right time.

Scott Robertson’s contract expires at end of 2021 super rugby season and no announcement of new deal yet, would top my short list if deal hasn’t been signed.

Cullen and Lancaster worthy candidates too.

they'd mad to take it the calls of bias would be immediate and consistent.

The Inbetween is mine

It's a shame that Mark Mcall wil never enter into the equation,

ClanofLams

bayern wrote: »

they'd mad to take it the calls of bias would be immediate and consistent.

Yep but being successful would make the calls irrelevant. Although do think Irish rugby would benefit from an injection of fresh ideas and foreign appointment of top name would renew interest., ultimately though success regardless of coach is quickest way to renew interest.

McFarland has done fine job at Ulster but not enough to warrant Irish job. Not have Van Graan or Friend or anyone connected with the current coaching set up. So I think it’s Cullen and Lancaster or someone unconnected to Irish rugby, former obviously logical and strong candidates but hoping for the latter.

Neil3030

Lost Ormond wrote: »

Both those are accurate i think but world cup wins get so much beyond prize money alone that the prize money doesnt need to be that big.

In a monetary sense, do you mean?

Dubinusa

I suppose 2 losses could spell the end for this coaching team. But, a win could keep them in situ. I reckon that we will probably win one of the remaining fixtures. If Farrell is canned, who comes on board? I would think that Razzie would be ideal! But, could he be plied away from S.A?
If not Razzie, it must be Jackman and M.O.C!!! FYP

john9876

M.O.C ?

sebdavis

The Inbetween is mine wrote: »

It's a shame that Mark Mcall wil never enter into the equation,

Why?
His style of rugby is worse than anything Joe ever served up.

Plus he is been paid incredible money which the IRFU would never pay for him.

jp101

Lost Ormond wrote: »

I wouldnt pick Leo unless you get Lancaster as well and does Lancaster even want to go back to international coaching? Seems very happy where he is right now and would be surprised he would want to change whats working well for him

Why the no Leo without Lancaster? Who else has the success rate he has.

Squidgy Black

jp101 wrote: »

Why the no Leo without Lancaster? Who else has the success rate he has.

Leo doesn't have that success rate without Lancaster though. His first year in charge with Leinster wasn't great at all. Finished bottom of our pool in the Champions Cup, and lost the final to Connacht in a year where we were a game away from finishing 4th in the table, lost two interpros and barely scraped a win against Munster too.

sebdavis

Squidgy Black wrote: »

Leo doesn't have that success rate without Lancaster though. His first year in charge with Leinster wasn't great at all. Finished bottom of our pool in the Champions Cup, and lost the final to Connacht in a year where we were a game away from finishing 4th in the table, lost two interpros and barely scraped a win against Munster too.

Leo took over a disaster. He wasn't confirmed as coach till late in the day. Majority of his squad was away playing a World Cup, when they came back it was straight into Europe and players hadn't even worked with the new team, didn't know calls etc.

Remember the season before Dragons beat Leinster home & away. Getting to a final was a massive change to the previous season.

Lost Ormond

jp101 wrote: »

Why the no Leo without Lancaster? Who else has the success rate he has.

Look at how Leinster did when Cullen didnt have Lancaster beside him and leading the coaching etc

Former Former Former

Squidgy Black wrote: »

Leo doesn't have that success rate without Lancaster though. His first year in charge with Leinster wasn't great at all. Finished bottom of our pool in the Champions Cup, and lost the final to Connacht in a year where we were a game away from finishing 4th in the table, lost two interpros and barely scraped a win against Munster too.

In his first ever season as a head coach?? That's unbelievably harsh. We topped the league a year after not even making the semis.

Flip it around. What did Lancaster achieve without Leo? Crashed out of the pool stages of a home RWC, England's worst ever result. Never won a 6N title.

But everyone chooses to believe that Leo is the sham and Lancaster is the genius.

Pretty unfair tbh.

In defence of Leo - before Lancaster came on board I felt we'd definitely turned a corner. We were playing at a higher tempo and our passing had improved dramatically. We actively went backwards under MOC (albeit he lost a lot of good players too) but we almost certainly were on the up under Leo.

Lancaster brought it to another level but I wouldn't be too quick to dismiss Leo's coaching credentials. His self awareness alone (actively seeking to bring in Lancaster) is a good measure but I was happy enough with him in charge after that first season given how we performed the following year and the clear progression that got us there.

Teferi

I think Leo would be mad to take the Irish job. He has everything set up for him to give him very long term success in Leinster and a secure coaching job in rugby can be hard enough to come by. With Ireland you're getting 1 or 2 WC cycles maximum before you'd be on the job hunt again.

ujjjjjjjjj

Former Former Former wrote: »

In his first ever season as a head coach?? That's unbelievably harsh. We topped the league a year after not even making the semis.

Flip it around. What did Lancaster achieve without Leo? Crashed out of the pool stages of a home RWC, England's worst ever result. Never won a 6N title.

But everyone chooses to believe that Leo is the sham and Lancaster is the genius.

Pretty unfair tbh.

Excellent post....

Considering Leo's track record and his obvious management ability in bulidng a coaching team it is amazing people try to denigrate him.

Leo is everything you could want in a head coach. Long may he continue and I have the height of respect for him.

Building a coaching team that works is his job and he is getting results, one HCUP and one runner up and he has turned the PRO 14 into the Leinster Cup and is feeding so many quality players through to the Ireland team that right now you could easily start an all Leinster Ireland 15 and it wouldn't be amiss.

.ak

bayern wrote: »

Stockdale over Lowe for me.

Lowe hasn’t set the world alight in test footie but Stockdale this season has been, wait for it, poison

Lowe will get there. Right now he makes silly yardage and beats the 1st defender every time. His defense has been poor but his kicking game has been brilliant.

I’d take that from a bloke who’s never played test rugby until last November, he’ll get better too,

cantwbr1

ujjjjjjjjj wrote: »

Excellent post....

Considering Leo's track record and his obvious management ability in bulidng a coaching team it is amazing people try to denigrate him.
.

The ability to recognise his limitations and willingness to bring in coaches who are better than him is Leo’s key strength.

A comparable coach is Warren Gatland, one of the most successful coaches in the last 15 years. As a coach himself he’s fairly limited (remember the 15 man line out) but his ability to put together a brilliant coaching team is second to none.

TRC10

I don't understand the calls for Stockdale to come straight back into the XV. If he was playing well and scoring tries I'd say yeah, but he's not and hasnt been for a while. I'd have Earls and Larmour starting v Scotland personally.

ScissorPaperRock

Former Former Former wrote: »

In his first ever season as a head coach?? That's unbelievably harsh. We topped the league a year after not even making the semis.

Flip it around. What did Lancaster achieve without Leo? Crashed out of the pool stages of a home RWC, England's worst ever result. Never won a 6N title.

But everyone chooses to believe that Leo is the sham and Lancaster is the genius.

Pretty unfair tbh.

Who has said that?

I think people are just recognising that there is a good combination there.