Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

TRC10

sydthebeat wrote: »

and that insular experience may not be a good thing for a national coach.

anyway, obviously my opinion, but i would put ROG way out in front of cullen right now as a choice.... and thats not in anyway to denigrate leo.

ROG hasn't even been a head coach for 2 seasons yet and you'd put him ahead of a guy who has won 3 Pro14s and a Heineken cup? I have great respect for RoG and hope he does coach Ireland some day but what you're saying is crazy.

sydthebeat

TRC10 wrote: »

ROG hasn't even been a head coach for 2 seasons yet and you'd put him ahead of a guy who has won 3 Pro14s and a Heineken cup? I have great respect for RoG and hope he does coach Ireland some day but what you're saying is crazy.

Right now ROG has more coaching experience than Leo.

TRC10

sydthebeat wrote: »

Right now ROG has more coaching experience than Leo.

He's been in coaching for one year longer. But I think you know there's a lot more to be considered. Leo has been Leinster head coach for 5 years and he's won 4 trophies. Rog hasn't even been a head coach for 2 seasons yet. He's been assistant at a few clubs before that. But Leo's experience is far superior.

Lost Ormond

TRC10 wrote: »

ROG hasn't even been a head coach for 2 seasons yet and you'd put him ahead of a guy who has won 3 Pro14s and a Heineken cup? I have great respect for RoG and hope he does coach Ireland some day but what you're saying is crazy.

Leo has been in the one environment with a squad set up thats better than vast majority of sides so winning several league titles is great but not a major deal.
ROG has been defense, attack and head coach across super rugby, top14. His experiences certainly put him ahead of Cullen.

TRC10

Lost Ormond wrote: »

Leo has been in the one environment with a squad set up thats better than vast majority of sides so winning several league titles is great but not a major deal.
ROG has been defense, attack and head coach across super rugby, top14.

Not a big deal? That's convenient. Leinster are better than everyone else, but do you not think that the head coach has had anything to do with that? The season before Leo came in, Leinster didn't even make the play offs. Since then they've won 3 consecutively (probably 4).

What about the Heineken Cup, is that not a major deal?

Dave_The_Sheep

Can we not be happy to have both?

It's not as if they're vying for the same role.

sydthebeat

Dave_The_Sheep wrote: »

Can we not be happy to have both?

It's not as if they're vying for the same role.

Did you miss the question that was asked?

TRC10

Dave_The_Sheep wrote: »

It's not as if they're vying for the same role.

Give it 2 years

salmocab

Dave_The_Sheep wrote: »

Can we not be happy to have both?

It's not as if they're vying for the same role.

No it’s being decided today so pick a horse and get going.

sydthebeat

TRC10 wrote: »

He's been in coaching for one year longer. But I think you know there's a lot more to be considered. Leo has been Leinster head coach for 5 years and he's won 4 trophies. Rog hasn't even been a head coach for 2 seasons yet. He's been assistant at a few clubs before that. But Leo's experience is far superior.

Coaching experience is not time dependent.

At this stage ROG has more coaching experience than Leo. Leo's experience is very narrow.

sebdavis

Lost Ormond wrote: »

Leo has been in the one environment with a squad set up thats better than vast majority of sides so winning several league titles is great but not a major deal.
ROG has been defense, attack and head coach across super rugby, top14. His experiences certainly put him ahead of Cullen.

This is a very very strange opinion. You are critical of Cullen because of his success?

Dave_The_Sheep

sydthebeat wrote: »

Did you miss the question that was asked?

God, no. I ignored the context entirely and just posted whatever.

I thought that was what we did around here?

salmocab wrote: »

No it’s being decided today so pick a horse and get going.

Paul O'Connell. Most recent international coaching experience!

TRC10

sydthebeat wrote: »

Coaching experience is not time dependent.

At this stage ROG has more coaching experience than Leo. Leo's experience is very narrow.

ROG as a head coach: 1 and a half years, 0 trophies

Leo as a head coach: 5 years, 4 trophies

Why is this even a debate?

Lost Ormond

sebdavis wrote: »

This is a very very strange opinion. You are critical of Cullen because of his success?

No. Leo has had the strongest squad in the pro14 for the entire time of his coaching career. Had an international level coach with 10 years head coaching experience etc as an assistant.
He doesnt have near the experience of ROG who's coached multiple units of play in several different countries and had successes in each of those roles.

TRC10

Lost Ormond wrote: »

No. Leo has had the strongest squad in the pro14 for the entire time of his coaching career. Had an international level coach with 10 years head coaching experience etc as an assistant.
He doesnt have near the experience of ROG who's coached multiple units of play in several different countries and had successes in each of those roles.

So every Leinster coach, no matter how successful they are, is disqualified from coaching Ireland.

Yeah the last Leinster coach that got the Ireland job was really found out at international level wasn't he.

sydthebeat

TRC10 wrote: »

ROG as a head coach: 1 and a half years, 0 trophies

Leo as a head coach: 5 years, 4 trophies

Why is this even a debate?

AGAIN

coaching experience is not time dependent

Leos coaching experience is extremely narrow, when compared to ROG already

sebdavis

Lost Ormond wrote: »

No. Leo has had the strongest squad in the pro14 for the entire time of his coaching career. Had an international level coach with 10 years head coaching experience etc as an assistant.
He doesnt have near the experience of ROG who's coached multiple units of play in several different countries and had successes in each of those roles.

:P
It is funny how people will come up with all sorts to make them look right. If you say so mate.
Both are good coach's. Simple as that. Both would be mental to take the Ireland job, mainly because of the Irish fans.

No matter how good the coach is they end up on the wrong side of Irish fans. A foreign coach can walk out and head to another country. Leo & ROG I would expect want to have the ability to coach for at least another 10-20 years. Take the Ireland job, maybe last 4 years and then never get a job in Ireland again, why? because of the Irish fans!!!

Lost Ormond

TRC10 wrote: »

So every Leinster coach, no matter how successful they are, is disqualified from coaching Ireland.

Yeah the last Leinster coach that got the Ireland job was really found out at international level wasn't he.

Nonsense and the last Leinster coach that got the irish job had coached in New Zealand, France and had much varied experience compared to Leo who has limited experience

sebdavis

sydthebeat wrote: »

AGAIN

coaching experience is not time dependent

Leos coaching experience is extremely narrow, when compared to ROG already

ROG has coached in France & NZ after playing his entire career in Ireland
Leo has played in Ireland & England. Has coached in Ireland only.

Hardly like ROG has travelled the World and seen every type of rugby.

Leo also spent the entire lockdown working with the Crusaders etc to get experience of what is happening in SH. So it's not like he hasn't seen outside Ireland.

As I said, both are good coach's. Trying to nit pick between the two seems madness to me.

The Inbetween is mine

I'd say Deccie is due a triumphant return

"Deccie II ...the ligind returns"

sebdavis

If anyone I would actually go back and get Pat Lam. He has more experience than any of them and has been in the Irish system so knows it well. I would actually have loved if the IRFU held onto him, talk to some english fans and they want him instead of Eddie

TRC10

Lost Ormond wrote: »

Nonsense and the last Leinster coach that got the irish job had coached in New Zealand, France and had much varied experience compared to Leo who has limited experience

I would say the influence Joe's time in NZ and France had on the IRFU'S decision to appoint him was negligible. I'd say the 4 trophies in 3 years at Leinster was 99% of the decision there.

The Inbetween is mine

sebdavis wrote: »

If anyone I would actually go back and get Pat Lam. He has more experience than any of them and has been in the Irish system so knows it well. I would actually have loved if the IRFU held onto him, talk to some english fans and they want him instead of Eddie

Without trying to start an argument...I'd say Pat's face doesn't fit within the IRFU

sebdavis

The Inbetween is mine wrote: »

Without trying to start an argument...I'd say Pat's face doesn't fit within the IRFU

Really? why do you say that. He seemed very happy when he was here and was clear he left because of the huge money on offer.

P.S. Not sure why it would start an argument?

TRC10

sebdavis wrote: »

:P

No matter how good the coach is they end up on the wrong side of Irish fans. A foreign coach can walk out and head to another country. Leo & ROG I would expect want to have the ability to coach for at least another 10-20 years. Take the Ireland job, maybe last 4 years and then never get a job in Ireland again, why? because of the Irish fans!!!

I agree with this.

But the reality is, in 2 years theres a strong chance they'll be the best available options. So while they might rather wait a bit longer, Ireland might need them sooner rather than later.

And who says when they leave it's the end for them in terms if Ireland. Aus wanted Eddie Jones back last year.

FellasFellas

I'd be throwing the cheque book at Pat Lam or Scott Robertson.

ROG will be Munster head coach after JVG.

TRC10

FellasFellas wrote: »

I'd be throwing the cheque book at Pat Lam or Scott Robertson.

ROG will be Munster head coach after JVG.

ROG to Leinster when Leo gets the Ireland job

You heard it here first

sydthebeat

sebdavis wrote: »

ROG has coached in France & NZ after playing his entire career in Ireland
Leo has played in Ireland & England. Has coached in Ireland only.

Hardly like ROG has travelled the World and seen every type of rugby.

Leo also spent the entire lockdown working with the Crusaders etc to get experience of what is happening in SH. So it's not like he hasn't seen outside Ireland.

As I said, both are good coach's. Trying to nit pick between the two seems madness to me.

ROG (coaching 2013 - present)

Racing 92: Defense and Kicking Coach (4 seasons)
Crusaders: Backs coach (2 seasons)
La Rochelle: Head Coach (2 seasons)
Ireland: one game as skills coach

Leo Cullen (coaching 2014 - present)
Leinster: Forwards coach (1 season) Head Coach (5 seasons)

TRC10

sydthebeat wrote: »

ROG (coaching 2013 - present)

Racing 92: Defense and Kicking Coach (4 seasons)
Crusaders: Backs coach (2 seasons)
La Rochelle: Head Coach (2 seasons)
Ireland: one game as skills coach

Leo Cullen (coaching 2014 - present)
Leinster: Forwards coach (1 season) Head Coach (5 seasons)

The key numbers there are
ROG as head coach: 1 season
Leo as head coach: 5 seasons

If it was defense or attack coach. It's ROG all day long.

Leo has more and superior experience as a HEAD COACH.

Dubinusa

So, anyone think Farrell will get an extension?