Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

nerd69

Yeah_Right wrote: »

Absolutely coaches can get things wrong. Tactics and selections. I think the selection of Murray for the past 2 years has been a mistake. At one point I was calling for him to be dropped to the AIL. I understand the reasoning behind his continued selection, he had the credit in the bank and they were trying to play him back into form.

In the case of Marmion and McGrath, the selectors have had a lot of looks at them over a number of years and decided to go another way. I don't think they've been hard done by.

Ya if you think he should have been ail it says more about you than murray I'd say

Yeah_Right

nerd69 wrote: »

Ya if you think he should have been ail it says more about you than murray I'd say

That was probably due to my frustration at how awful he was at the time. Matthewson was the best HB in Munster and I figured why not start him and put one of the youngsters on the bench because Murray was just stinking the place up.

sebdavis

Yeah_Right wrote: »

That was probably due to my frustration at how awful he was at the time. Matthewson was HB in Munster and I figured why not start him and put one of the youngsters on the bench because Murray was just stinking the place up.

Murray has never played awful. Yes he has never hit the form he had prior to his injury but he was never awful.

He was playing ok, the problem was his standard was so high prior to injury people expect a lot higher standard.

It was on a podcast once that Murrays ok is similar to some of the other 9's in Ireland peak performance. When Murray was at peak nobody could touch him, personally I think he was the best in the World by a significant margin

Yeah_Right

sebdavis wrote: »

Murray has never played awful. Yes he has never hit the form he had prior to his injury but he was never awful.

He was playing ok, the problem was his standard was so high prior to injury people expect a lot higher standard.

It was on a podcast once that Murrays ok is similar to some of the other 9's in Ireland peak performance. When Murray was at peak nobody could touch him, personally I think he was the best in the World by a significant margin

Seriously?? Murray was terrible throughout 2019 and 2020. He wasnt even half the player he was before the injury. He is back to playing ok now but I don't think he should be starting for Ireland.

At his best, he was in the conversation for best in the world but I would have always taken Aaron Smith over him.

Poorside

No changes to the starting team, Murray onto the bench for Casey.

phily2002

sebdavis wrote: »

Murray has never played awful. Yes he has never hit the form he had prior to his injury but he was never awful.

He was playing ok, the problem was his standard was so high prior to injury people expect a lot higher standard.

It was on a podcast once that Murrays ok is similar to some of the other 9's in Ireland peak performance. When Murray was at peak nobody could touch him, personally I think he was the best in the World by a significant margin

He was awful against Japan and New Zealand.
He was close to awful against Wales a few weeks back gifting them 3 points and had errors in both trys.

sebdavis

phily2002 wrote: »

He was awful against Japan and New Zealand.
He was close to awful against Wales a few weeks back gifting them 3 points and had errors in both trys.

It was an entire system breakdown v Japan & NZ so trying to pick one player is not really right.

Against Wales? that was one of his better games for Ireland

phily2002

sebdavis wrote: »

It was an entire system breakdown v Japan & NZ so trying to pick one player is not really right.

Against Wales? that was one of his better games for Ireland

Many were crap vs Japan and New Zealand but Murray was definitely awful in both.
Against Wales he gave them the ball with a pass behind Hendo for the first try, had a high tackle which gave them a free play for the second try, blocked to give them 3 points, missed a couple of tackles, didn't create any breaks. I thought he was very poor tbh

stephen_n

awec wrote: »

This makes absolutely no sense to be honest. JGP has been, at best, a middling performer.

Do you believe Cooney did better with his opportunities?

Did you ever consider the possibility that you look at the game very differently than coaches do?

Must love hardship

JGP to start as per kinsella and Thornley.

I think he will be the rock farrell perishes on if Scotland win.

Fredinho

Must love hardship wrote:

I think he will be the rock farrell perishes on if Scotland win.

Farewell then Mr Farrell

sydthebeat

And if Ireland win?

Dubinusa

Losing with JGP, wouldn't be different than losing with Murray. If Farrell does switch it up, that's a good thing.

sebdavis

Must love hardship wrote: »

JGP to start as per kinsella and Thornley.

I think he will be the rock farrell perishes on if Scotland win.

It's nice to see the Irish fans find a new target
D Kearney was someone to hate for a few season
Then of course his brother till he retired
We had Heaslip over the year
Sexton of course but the annoying thing was he is just so good
Now the target is clearly painted on JGP.....
Funny it seems to be the same people who have the same problem with certain players.

No chance people would just support the team

sebdavis

Dubinusa wrote: »

Losing with JGP, wouldn't be different than losing with Murray. If Farrell does switch it up, that's a good thing.

Fans call for new players into the squad /team. When new players are added seemingly they are the wrong players
How can you win to be honest?

Interested Observer

It's a fairly un-Irish selection (in dropping the vastly experienced past performer, not that JGP isn't Irish) but I'm all for it and it's something we need plenty more of.

The Inbetween is mine

sebdavis wrote: »

It's nice to see the Irish fans find a new target
D Kearney was someone to hate for a few season
Then of course his brother till he retired
We had Heaslip over the year
Sexton of course but the annoying thing was he is just so good
Now the target is clearly painted on JGP.....
Funny it seems to be the same people who have the same problem with certain players.

No chance people would just support the team

Didn't see you mention Murray, Zebo, ROG, Felix Jones, Beirne, all who have had the same or greater vitriolic abuse... nothing ever changes I find.

irishbucsfan

The Inbetween is mine wrote: »

Didn't see you mention Murray, Zebo, ROG, Felix Jones, Beirne, all who have had the same or greater vitriolic abuse... nothing ever changes I find.

When did Tadgh Beire get vitriolic abuse? Was that on here? And... why?

I get why the others would, they had periods where they were very poor

sydthebeat

We absolutely need a high tempo game on Sunday and JGP is the best man available for it. He will keep defenders focused inwards and give us better chance of profit outside.

If we have slow ball and allow that Scottish line to get set often, there is enough poachers and general bollixes in their team to make life very difficult for us in possession. We need to move them around in patterns which we chose. Murray has too much of a habit of zig zagging which is easier to defend too.

Former Former Former

irishbucsfan wrote: »

When did Tadgh Beire get vitriolic abuse? Was that on here? And... why?

I get why the others would, they had periods where they were very poor

Or Felix Jones?! Think he was universally liked, no?

salmocab

Former Former Former wrote: »

Or Felix Jones?! Think he was universally liked, no?

I was actually thinking I don’t remember any anti Felix Jones stuff.

aloooof

irishbucsfan wrote: »

When did Tadgh Beire get vitriolic abuse? Was that on here? And... why?

I get why the others would, they had periods where they were very poor

Tbh, I’m not sure I ever understand why any player gets vitriolic abuse.

sebdavis

The Inbetween is mine wrote: »

Didn't see you mention Murray, Zebo, ROG, Felix Jones, Beirne, all who have had the same or greater vitriolic abuse... nothing ever changes I find.

I am talking about players in the team that fans wanted out for no reason. Players in form and still fans wanted out.

Zebo. Jones, Beirne(till now) where never regular in the team. Beirne since getting into the team I have heard nothing but praise. The biggest problem with Zebo was that he wasn't in the team and fans going nuts because they wanted others dropped out. e.g. D Kearney

ROG was a hero for all fans from my recollection and majority of his career no alternative.

Murray has been in the team most of his professional life and never was questioned till he was out of form.

The Inbetween is mine

salmocab wrote: »

I was actually thinking I don’t remember any anti Felix Jones stuff.

Oh I definitely do

sebdavis

salmocab wrote: »

I was actually thinking I don’t remember any anti Felix Jones stuff.

Neither do I, my recollection was he was used on the bench by Joe because he was a utility player. I never heard anyone really question that decision. But maybe old age has kicked in

Interested Observer

The Inbetween is mine wrote: »

Oh I definitely do

Where, on here? Post it so.

sydthebeat

Jones was very much only ever a bit part player at test level.. i dont know why any abuse would have been sent his way at all.

he never started a six nations game, and he only ever started 3 test games against tier 1 sides.

Some Yoke

Any team selection rumours here or just bickering on repeat?

TRC10

sebdavis wrote: »

It's nice to see the Irish fans find a new target
D Kearney was someone to hate for a few season
Then of course his brother till he retired
We had Heaslip over the year
Sexton of course but the annoying thing was he is just so good
Now the target is clearly painted on JGP.....
Funny it seems to be the same people who have the same problem with certain players.

No chance people would just support the team

Supporting the team means critiquing the performance and talking about how the team could be better, because ultimately you want the team to win.

Blindly cheering on the team, win, lose or draw, isn't being a supporter, that's being a cheerleader.

Former Former Former

Some Yoke wrote: »

Any team selection rumours here or just bickering on repeat?

Irish Times thinks JGP will start with Murray on the bench. Furlong will keep the 3 jersey which I think is very harsh on Porter.