Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

sydthebeat

penybont exile wrote: »

This is a nonsense anyway ..... they should stump up their tax just like the rest of us!

all artists should get tax exemptions

penybont exile

sydthebeat wrote: »

all artists should get tax exemptions

..... nice gig if you can get it.

Must look into how I get my job re-classified.

The Inbetween is mine

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

I wonder if one of the Leinster lads will look to go to Munster to fight Coombes for the 8 jersey. Conan, Doris, Soroka, Deegan, even Penny,

I'd say at this point it's probably high on the IRFU's list.....
Much more likely than trying to import a high earner from Aus or SA..

Bridge93

How does it work? Like I've heard the vague premise that players get a tax rebate if they stay etc but how does it practically work? Do the IRFU cover the tax bill or do Revenue give them some sort of statutory exemption? I'm intrigued by this.

KBurke85

Bridge93 wrote: »

How does it work? Like I've heard the vague premise that players get a tax rebate if they stay etc but how does it practically work? Do the IRFU cover the tax bill or do Revenue give them some sort of statutory exemption? I'm intrigued by this.

https://www.revenue.ie/en/tax-professionals/tdm/income-tax-capital-gains-tax-corporation-tax/part-15/15-01-36.pdf

Information and examples here

dublinman1990

I'm honestly stunned to hear about CJ's retirement from the Irish rugby team this evening. He has been a massively influential presence for Irish & Munster rugby; even though I follow Leinster. His statement about his family was so refreshing to read as it was written so beautifully. The amount of pressure that he has had to take on while playing rugby in Ireland & being on the family farm in SA must have taken a huge toll on his personal life with his family. I can't fault him for expressing that viewpoint. He has every right to say it when it affects him so deeply. I hope CJ has a great retirement with a lot of great memories being made by him. He has been a fantastic ambassador to Irish rugby. He will be missed by us & by Irish fans the world over. Hon' CJ.

irishbucsfan

Bridge93 wrote: »

How does it work? Like I've heard the vague premise that players get a tax rebate if they stay etc but how does it practically work? Do the IRFU cover the tax bill or do Revenue give them some sort of statutory exemption? I'm intrigued by this.

It would be illegal for the IRFU to cover anyone’s tax bill!

Anyway, this comes up a lot. At the end of the day, there’s a lot we’ll never know about the tax affairs of these guys anyway. Based on recent high profile court cases, the sports stars earning money in Ireland who need a closer look aren’t even representing or based in Ireland! That’s where the real juicy money seems to be.

Dual wheels

dublinman1990 wrote: »

I'm honestly stunned to hear about CJ's retirement from the Irish rugby team this evening. He has been a massively influential presence for Irish & Munster rugby; even though I follow Leinster. His statement about his family was so refreshing to read as it was written so beautifully. The amount of pressure that he has had to take on while playing rugby in Ireland & being on the family farm in SA must have taken a huge toll on his personal life with his family. I can't fault him for expressing that viewpoint. He has every right to say it when it affects him so deeply. I hope CJ has a great retirement with a lot of great memories being made by him. He has been a fantastic ambassador to Irish rugby. He will be missed by us & by Irish fans the world over. Hon' CJ.

I’d be surprised if he doesn’t join back up with the bulls but best of Luck to him
It must have been impossible trying to run the family farm whilst living in limerick hon the kid

sebdavis

TO be honest he can do what he likes, quit rugby or back to SA and play for a club. He has been a great servant to Irish rugby over the years!!

Zzippy

sydthebeat wrote: »

all artists should get tax exemptions

Bullsh1t artists? Cos we could put in a group claim...

Dickie10

i really fear we could get a tanking saturday but sure hopefully we go out and throw the ball around at least try and put on a show and get a couple of tries , the fear is we get stuck in the headlights and england just pummell us. looking back at the late 90s and early 2000s , christ we got some thumpings off england. i always remember the 2001 victory, i had assumed we were gaining parity with england around then, but looking up youtube, its some horror show. 46-6 in 97 in landsdowne rd. 50-18 in twickenham in 2000, 42-6 in 2002 and 43-6 in 2003. didnt have the stomach to watch the 98 and 99 games v england. but my God the rugby england were playing was a joy yo watch even in 97 unbeliivable off loading. Ireland were absolutely disgraceful in 97 though. check out 2002 england v ireland evryone needs to see johnny in action , a thing of beauty.

Anyway prob going to be a long day saturday , i wonder will my prediction be as good as last week. i will go ireland 18-35 england

Natterjack from Kerry

sebdavis wrote: »

TO be honest he can do what he likes, quit rugby or back to SA and play for a club. He has been a great servant to Irish rugby over the years!!

I dont know if servant is quite the right word. He was damn well paid, and this type of scenarios show up how commercial rugby is. He wasnt giving anything to Ireland or Munster. But here because he bet his prospects and earning power were greater than in SA. It was a mutually beneficial business deal between the IRFU and a gun for hire who is now sailing away.
Which is not at all to say isnt a fine player, decent man, committed professional, was a strong part of a many Irish successes and was the deserving pick from those available to Irish and Munster coaches.
But he wasnt motivated by serving Irish rugby or achieving something for his country, family, community that he had dreamed of all his life - he delivered what he was paid to do.

sebdavis

Natterjack from Kerry wrote: »

I dont know if servant is quite the right word. He was damn well paid, and this type of scenarios show up how commercial rugby is. He wasnt giving anything to Ireland or Munster. But here because he bet his prospects and earning power were greater than in SA. It was a mutually beneficial business deal between the IRFU and a gun for hire who is now sailing away.
Which is not at all to say isnt a fine player, decent man, committed professional, was a strong part of a many Irish successes and was the deserving pick from those available to Irish and Munster coaches.
But he wasnt motivated by serving Irish rugby or achieving something for his country, family, community that he had dreamed of all his life - he delivered what he was paid to do.

Seems the bitterness is strong in some people.

If he was just after money he could of earned a lot lot more in France or England. Plus a hell of a lot nicer than standing in the pi**ing rain in Limerick :-)

Natterjack from Kerry

sebdavis wrote: »

Seems the bitterness is strong in some people.

If he was just after money he could of earned a lot lot more in France or England.

But came to Limerick because he just knew they are lovely people, and helping Ireland was a more noble cause than France or England? Sure.

thomond2006

#BREAKING
Professional athlete in paid to play rugby shocker.

The Inbetween is mine

thomond2006 wrote: »

#BREAKING
Professional athlete in paid to play rugby shocker.

It's not James Lowe is it?

sebdavis

Natterjack from Kerry wrote: »

But came to Limerick because he just knew they are lovely people, and helping Ireland was a more noble cause than France or England? Sure.

You don't seem to have a point now?
he came to play rugby and get paid.
He also stayed and was a great servant to Munster and Ireland.
As I said if he just wanted to be paid the most amount possible he would be in South of France.

Maybe tell us exactly what problem you have with him?

sebdavis

The Inbetween is mine wrote: »

It's not James Lowe is it?

The answer is always James Lowe

Buer

The Inbetween is mine wrote: »

It's not James Lowe is it?

I'm not tackling that.

#JamesLoweThings

kilns

Feels a little weird that a player is retiring playing for Ireland because he wants to return home

but fair play to him, a great servant who gave it his all in every game he played for Ireland and Munster

Hopefully Doris's injuries can clear him and he gets a good consistent run.

Our pack going forward looks very exciting A back row of Beirne, Dorris and Connors with Leavy hopefully backing them up looks very promising with Henderson, Ryan and Baird backing them up and a front row with Furlong back to his best, we just need to unearth a top loosehead and Kelleher needs to keep improve his throwing

kilns

kilns wrote: »

Feels a little weird that a player is retiring playing for Ireland because he wants to return home

but fair play to him, a great servant who gave it his all in every game he played for Ireland and Munster

Hopefully Doris's injuries can clear him and he gets a good consistent run.

Our pack going forward looks very exciting A back row of Beirne, Dorris and Connors with Leavy hopefully backing them up looks very promising with Henderson, Ryan and Baird backing them up and a front row with Furlong back to his best, we just need to unearth a top loosehead and Kelleher needs to keep improve his throwing

From what I've seen, I wouldn't be surprised if Dan Sheehan overtakes Kelleher before the next World Cup.

It's not often I would get excited at the potential of a player but there's just something about Sheehan.

Richie_Rich89

tgdaly wrote: »

I don't think we need wholesale changes for England, apart from the enforced injuries I think one or 2 tweaks would make a huge difference to the team. I think it would be a big mistake to bring POM in, apart from how I rate him as a player he hasn't played in 6 weeks and the back 5 in the pack has gone ok.

I think Baird is well deserving of a shot to start now with Dillane on the bench. If the plan is to move Beirne back to 2nd row then Conan should come into the back row and maybe Ruddock on the bench

I think Lowe needs some time to go away and work on his defending, I think whatever about his long term prospects in green, they won't be helped by him being further exposed against England and the mental fallout of same on the player. There's temptation to throw Stockdale back in but I think Larmour should start and ease Stockdale back in from the bench.

Healy, Herring, Furlong
Baird, Henderson
Beirne, Stander, Connors
Gibson-Park, Sexton
Henshaw, Farrell
Larmour, Keenan, Earls

Kilcoyne, Kelleher, Porter, Dillane, Conan, Murray, Burns (although Carbury would be great!!), Stockdale

I think Farrell at 12 and Henshaw at 13 would be more potent in attack compared to the other way round. Farrell's lack of an outside break would be a limiting factor if he's playing outside a truck-it-up 12. If he was playing outside an outhalf-type 12 then you'd want him straightening teh line, but outside Henshaw I think you'd need some rapier to go with the bludgeon.

Richie_Rich89

Dickie10 wrote: »

i really fear we could get a tanking saturday but sure hopefully we go out and throw the ball around at least try and put on a show and get a couple of tries , the fear is we get stuck in the headlights and england just pummell us. looking back at the late 90s and early 2000s , christ we got some thumpings off england. i always remember the 2001 victory, i had assumed we were gaining parity with england around then, but looking up youtube, its some horror show. 46-6 in 97 in landsdowne rd. 50-18 in twickenham in 2000, 42-6 in 2002 and 43-6 in 2003. didnt have the stomach to watch the 98 and 99 games v england. but my God the rugby england were playing was a joy yo watch even in 97 unbeliivable off loading. Ireland were absolutely disgraceful in 97 though. check out 2002 england v ireland evryone needs to see johnny in action , a thing of beauty.

Anyway prob going to be a long day saturday , i wonder will my prediction be as good as last week. i will go ireland 18-35 england

2002: 45-11
2003:42-6

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_rugby_union_matches_between_England_and_Ireland

kilns

By the way the media and he himself is talking it seems POM is going to come straight back into the team on Saturday which to me is a real backwards step. Saturday is a great opportunity to give Baird a start against top class opposition, yes he is young and raw but why not give him the opportunity, you will not learn anything new by pushing Beirne back to second row and POM into 6.

It would be crazy to take a guy out of the 6 jersey who has been playing so well there and frankly offers much more than POM and having the the chance to develop a real talent in the second row giving us great depth there

I would have Baird and Henderson with Dillane on the bench

Beirne, Stander and Connors in the back row with Conan on the bench, bringing a potential impact with ball carrying and pace.

sydthebeat

I think the last 3 games have shown that we are in no way reliant on POM for his lineout prowess.

personally id prefer to see Beirne to 4, CJ to 6 and Conan to 8

sebdavis

sydthebeat wrote: »

I think the last 3 games have shown that we are in no way reliant on POM for his lineout prowess.

personally id prefer to see Beirne to 4, CJ to 6 and Conan to 8

The lineout was a shambles with POM in it, so I never got the "we pick him for the lineout".

That been said he was one of the form backrow players in Ireland prior to the 6 nations so deserved to get picked that day. Should he start against England? I wouldn't but with him rolled out already to the press to say how sorry he was for the Welsh game I think we can take it that in all probability he will start the game,.

Wasn't it BOD who said whoever does press during the week is the starter and thats the big mistake Gatland done on the Lions when he sent BOD out before dropping him

sebdavis

Not sure if I said it on this forum or another but I seen Henderson as a real option as captain and this tournament has only reinforced that opinion. He has been excellent. Ryan is still very young and wouldn't be the worst thing to make him vice captain and make Hendo captain for the next few years.

Sexton said he was captain for the first year of Farrells management, which turned into a bit of a mess so it seemed he just continued. Should we now at the end of this 6 nations make the decision to pick the captain for the next WC and too many question over Sexton to pick him

KaneToad

sebdavis wrote: »

You don't seem to have a point now?
he came to play rugby and get paid.
He also stayed and was a great servant to Munster and Ireland.
As I said if he just wanted to be paid the most amount possible he would be in South of France.

Maybe tell us exactly what problem you have with him?

As fans we're blinded by our players supposed commitment to the cause. They are often not as committed as the fan. They are professionals, this is their job.

There is not a contributor to this thread who wouldn't take their own careers in the direction most beneficial to them/their family in the same manner as Stander. Best of luck to him.

kilns

sebdavis wrote: »

Not sure if I said it on this forum or another but I seen Henderson as a real option as captain and this tournament has only reinforced that opinion. He has been excellent. Ryan is still very young and wouldn't be the worst thing to make him vice captain and make Hendo captain for the next few years.

Sexton said he was captain for the first year of Farrells management, which turned into a bit of a mess so it seemed he just continued. Should we now at the end of this 6 nations make the decision to pick the captain for the next WC and too many question over Sexton to pick him

Henderson has been terrific and a real leader and its further proof of one of OMahoneys so called stronger traits of "leadership" not being missed, so Henderson is the obvious call to be the next captain, sooner rather than later, because even though Sexton is still out best 10, he is definitely not the player he used to be and if Ireland want to change how they play will a Sexton at the end of his career want to change how he plays?

It may be painful but it would buy Farrell time but I would be of the opinion of trying to build now over the next 18 months to 2 years and removing Sexton, Murray, POM, Earls and Healy from the squad

Dubinusa

So if POM comes back in, Connors misses out? Can't see POM making as many tackles as Connors. I think we would need our best tacklers on the field!
I think its a mistake. The back row has been very good. I'd prefer Stander at 6 and Conan to come in at 8.
Moving Beirne back to the 2nd row I suppose makes sense. He's probably better at 6. More available around the breakdowns, where his best work is.