Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

Ardillaun

He’s going out at the top which I’m sure more would like to have done in retrospect. Have the boards boffins put together a highlight reel yet? Thanks so much, CJ, and alles van die beste.

Interested Observer

Dubinusa wrote: »

So if POM comes back in, Connors misses out? Can't see POM making as many tackles as Connors. I think we would need our best tacklers on the field!
I think its a mistake. The back row has been very good. I'd prefer Stander at 6 and Conan to come in at 8.
Moving Beirne back to the 2nd row I suppose makes sense. He's probably better at 6. More available around the breakdowns, where his best work is.

Where is this coming from? Seems an awful decision.

mun1

Looks like POM will be back in at 7 for England . Much needed boost to the team.

Teams should look like
1. Kilcoyne
2. Herring
3. Furlong
4. Henderson
5. Baird
6. Beirne
7. POM
8. CJ
9. Murray
10.sexton
11. Earls
12. Aki
13. Henshaw
14. Stockdale.
15. Keenan.

Baird, Conan, VDF, Healy, Kelleher, larmour & park should add some energy after 60 mins

sebdavis

Interested Observer wrote: »

Where is this coming from? Seems an awful decision.

POM got wheeled out to the media to get himself back in the good books. Fairly certain he will start but I would expect Hendo/Beirne will be in second row and POM take Beirne spot in backrow.....

sebdavis

mun1 wrote: »

Looks like POM will be back in at 7 for England . Much needed boost to the team.

Teams should look like
1. Kilcoyne
2. Herring
3. Furlong
4. Henderson
5. Baird
6. Beirne
7. POM
8. CJ
9. Murray
10.sexton
11. Earls
12. Aki
13. Henshaw
14. Stockdale.
15. Keenan.

Baird, Conan, VDF, Healy, Kelleher, larmour & park should add some energy after 60 mins

If we know anything about this management team they will not start Baird.
More like
Healy, Herring, Furlong, Beirne, Hendo, POM, Connors, Standar, JGP, Sexton, Earls, Henshaw, Farrell(Aki/Henshaw), Larmour, Keenan

Thats what I think they will go with.....the backs more questions than the forwards

kilns

mun1 wrote: »

Looks like POM will be back in at 7 for England . Much needed boost to the team.

Teams should look like
1. Kilcoyne
2. Herring
3. Furlong
4. Henderson
5. Baird
6. Beirne
7. POM
8. CJ
9. Murray
10.sexton
11. Earls
12. Aki
13. Henshaw
14. Stockdale.
15. Keenan.

Baird, Conan, VDF, Healy, Kelleher, larmour & park should add some energy after 60 mins

I presume you are being sarcastic?

kilns

sebdavis wrote: »

If we know anything about this management team they will not start Baird.
More like
Healy, Herring, Furlong, Beirne, Hendo, POM, Connors, Standar, JGP, Sexton, Earls, Henshaw, Farrell(Aki/Henshaw), Larmour, Keenan

Thats what I think they will go with.....the backs more questions than the forwards

POM and Murray coming straight back into the team would really sum up this management team. Only in Ireland would you take currently the best performing 6 in the six nations out of his position and move him to a position where he may be less effective and bringing a back a scrumhalf in who's USP is getting slow ball out to his backs, when your back line is already under performing

mun1

kilns wrote: »

I presume you are being sarcastic?

What, you think just because someone doesn’t agree with your viewpoint on team selection, they are being sarcastic ?

if it wasn’t England then yes he might not be back in, but it is and he should be brought back in for this match.
Our pack is too soft without him, he offers more to the team than ruddock, Connors, Conan, etc.

That’s what I think.

Of course we are not obliged to agree with each other

mun1

sebdavis wrote: »

If we know anything about this management team they will not start Baird.
More like
Healy, Herring, Furlong, Beirne, Hendo, POM, Connors, Standar, JGP, Sexton, Earls, Henshaw, Farrell(Aki/Henshaw), Larmour, Keenan

Thats what I think they will go with.....the backs more questions than the forwards

Farrell doesn’t bring enough to the team . Wouldn’t have him in the six nations squad to be honest.

sydthebeat

POM will be stale and not match fit for a game of this intensity. I think it would be madness putting him back in ahead of in form players.

And not a hope Murray starts. JGP right now is very instrumental in how we are playing.

kilns

mun1 wrote: »

What, you think just because someone doesn’t agree with your viewpoint on team selection, they are being sarcastic ?

if it wasn’t England then yes he might not be back in, but it is and he should be brought back in for this match.
Our pack is too soft without him, he offers more to the team than ruddock, Connors, Conan, etc.

That’s what I think.

Of course we are not obliged to agree with each other

You are making your point for me

Why is our pack too soft without him? What does he do to make the pack "harder"? He is not as physical as any of the back row we had against Scotland. Lets take Connors, the starting 7, what does he offer more to the team than him? Physicality? Tackling? Carries?

mun1

kilns wrote: »

You are making your point for me

Why is our pack too soft without him? What does he do to make the pack "harder"? He is not as physical as any of the back row we had against Scotland. Lets take Connors, the starting 7, what does he offer more to the team than him? Physicality? Tackling? Carries?

Simple , at this point in time POM is a better rugby player than conners. Even the Irish coaches would agree with this point.
Conners is a fine player (as is VDF, leave etc) and has some qualities that POM doesn’t have at this stage of his career. But on balance , he’s a better player

Might be a bit rusty after his layoff (and that could be enough to tip the scales against him) but will also be fresh and chomping at the bit to get stuck into England, which all true Irish supporters want to see.

POM has Better aggression in contact.
POM has Better dominant tackler.
POM Better as the line out option in attack and defence
POM is Better leadership candidate
POM is Better carrier than conners.

POM has proved this time and time again.

I’m sure you understand that All good international packs need hard edged players.

No need to be so aggressive in your responses . It’s not as if either of us will have to face England this weekend .
I’d be very happy to see POM start and for Ireland to win on Saturday .

phily2002

kilns wrote: »

You are making your point for me

Why is our pack too soft without him? What does he do to make the pack "harder"? He is not as physical as any of the back row we had against Scotland. Lets take Connors, the starting 7, what does he offer more to the team than him? Physicality? Tackling? Carries?

This, all 3 are bigger tacklers and carriers.
I've never got the POM brings a hard edge tbh. He might get a turnover or lineout steal but in the contact area he is quite weak.

kilns

mun1 wrote: »

Simple , at this point in time POM is a better rugby player than conners. Even the Irish coaches would agree with this point.
Conners is a fine player (as is VDF, leave etc) and has some qualities that POM doesn’t have at this stage of his career. But on balance , he’s a better player

Might be a bit rusty after his layoff (and that could be enough to tip the scales against him) but will also be fresh and chomping at the bit to get stuck into England, which all true Irish supporters want to see.

POM has Better aggression in contact.
POM has Better dominant tackler.
POM Better as the line out option in attack and defence
POM is Better leadership candidate
POM is Better carrier than conners.

POM has proved this time and time again.

I’m sure you understand that All good international packs need hard edged players.

No need to be so aggressive in your responses . It’s not as if either of us will have to face England this weekend .
I’d be very happy to see POM start and for Ireland to win on Saturday .

Ah here I am not getting into the POM bashing that this thread usually descends into but some of things you have mentioned are ridiculous and simply wrong - for a start, POM hardly tackles to be even considered a dominant tackler, he hardly carries too, our line out has been brilliant in his absence, leadership is not an issue and leaders dont get themselves sent off and blow a chance of a six nations title.

How do you quantity a hard edge? Is it sly little digs here and there because he is usually physically smaller than his direct opponents so cannot out physical them to prove his hardness

As I said lets not drag into a POM bashing exercise and agree to disagree

Dubinusa

POM doesn't dominate any collisions. Doesn't make many tackles. He's a great jackaler and line-out option. I think Curry would get the better of him. But, who knows? England have been as poor as us this time around.
If we get smashed, I am for looking at Farrells future. After this many matches, we have gone nowhere, imo. There's not too much from this tournament that we can pin our hats on. Pretty poor tournament for us.

TomsOnTheRoof

Really looking forward to POM getting selected.

Interested Observer

mun1 wrote: »

POM has Better dominant tackler.

This can't be a comparison with Connors. It can't be.

Natterjack from Kerry

Natterjack from Kerry wrote: »

But he wasnt motivated by serving Irish rugby or achieving something for his country, family, community that he had dreamed of all his life - he delivered what he was paid to do.

I mean, you just can't go around saying that as if it's fact, when what you're talking about is the inner workings of a man's motivation. How the hell would you know what motivated him?

In any event, if one was to engage with your post, you appear to dismiss the idea that the sense of gratitude (which CJ Stander himself has expressed) to Irish rugby for giving him the chance of a career at the highest level of the sport* was an obvious and powerful motivating factor for this player as his career progressed. The only people who can not acknowledge this are those who are dead to any sense of loyalty and comradeship themselves.

(*outside Leinster :pac::pac::pac::pac:)

mfceiling

mun1 wrote: »

POM has Better aggression in contact.
POM has Better dominant tackler.
POM Better as the line out option in attack and defence
POM is Better leadership candidate
POM is Better carrier than conners.

Rugby Top Trumps.

No arguments, case closed.

AdamD

POM a dominant tackler?

Brilliant

VayNiice

Has there ever been a better back row than POM for lateral metres ran?

He also has a better Gurn than Connors

mun1

VayNiice wrote: »

Has there ever been a better back row than POM for lateral metres ran?

He also has a better Gurn than Connors

Good to see you had the sense to edit your post .

The only way POM wont be picked for the weekend is if its felt he wont last 60 mins.
I think he will but who knows.

sebdavis

mun1 wrote: »

Simple , at this point in time POM is a better rugby player than conners. Even the Irish coaches would agree with this point.
Conners is a fine player (as is VDF, leave etc) and has some qualities that POM doesn’t have at this stage of his career. But on balance , he’s a better player

Might be a bit rusty after his layoff (and that could be enough to tip the scales against him) but will also be fresh and chomping at the bit to get stuck into England, which all true Irish supporters want to see.

POM has Better aggression in contact.
POM has Better dominant tackler.
POM Better as the line out option in attack and defence
POM is Better leadership candidate
POM is Better carrier than conners.

POM has proved this time and time again.

I’m sure you understand that All good international packs need hard edged players.

No need to be so aggressive in your responses . It’s not as if either of us will have to face England this weekend .
I’d be very happy to see POM start and for Ireland to win on Saturday .

You do realise POM has been part of the back row the last few times England walked all over us. Totally dominating the backrow in the process and the lineout which POM is supposed to be a specialist was a disaster

sebdavis

sydthebeat wrote: »

POM will be stale and not match fit for a game of this intensity. I think it would be madness putting him back in ahead of in form players.

And not a hope Murray starts. JGP right now is very instrumental in how we are playing.

POM is in, once Ryan was out I had a fair idea, sticking him in front of the cameras first thing was confirmation IMO.

Murray I don't see coming back in and been on the bench again

The Inbetween is mine

sebdavis wrote: »

POM is in, once Ryan was out I had a fair idea, sticking him in front of the cameras first thing was confirmation IMO.

Murray I don't see coming back in and been on the bench again

We start Murray & we have a chance.....
We start JGP we won't be within 12 points of the English by games end

Dubinusa

If England are fit and firing, it will be a long afternoon, I think. They have been as poor as we have, though. So it could be close. Big showing needed for us. This championship was there for the taking, but our ineptness at creating any play among the backs, killed us. Right now, we couldn't open up a bag of tayto.

kilns

The Inbetween is mine wrote: »

We start Murray & we have a chance.....
We start JGP we won't be within 12 points of the English by games end

If we plan to limit our game to box kicks yes but the English rush defence will destroy us as usual with Murray's slow delivery if we want the ball to go behind Sexton

mun1

We are in for a tough day whoever we pick. Ryan and ringrose out put us at a Huge disadvantage .
I’d say we need to take a chance on Baird in the row . Anything else is just damage limitation .

He had a superb (game winning) cameo at the end of Scotland game .
Let’s see if he can compete from the start against itoje

TRC10

Starting Murray would be a complete step in the wrong direction. Not because he's in poor form, but because of the way he plays the game.

His game is built around a slow and deliberate approach. Going side to side, hitting 3 man pods 5 yards behind the gainline. It's great for ball retention, but that gameplan got found out 2 years ago.

JGP didn't have a great game last week, but he is immeasurably more suited to a higher tempo game with more urgency and width. He also challenges fringe defenses and brings his forwards onto the ball.

As for the criticism of him box kicking with 3 minutes to go. I don't think people realise this, but you can't play keep-ball and run the clock down for 3 minutes, because somebody will knock on or go off their feet or come in the side eventually. Its incredibly risky. Also, if you do that, the referee is 100x more attentive to infringements and is actively looking for a reason to penalize you. JGP closed out the game brilliantly.

VANG1

Even at full strength beating England would be a bonus, I think all we can expect is a tough day out and a win would be our best performance in years.