Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

Jump_In_Jack

The Inbetween is mine wrote: »

1: Healy
2: Kelleher
3: Furlong
4: Henderson
5: Beirne
6: POM
7:Connors
8: Stander
9:Murray
10: Sexy..
11:Earls
12: Aki
13: Henshaw
14: Stockdale
15: Heenan

That's the team I want to see... but I'm not sure I have any say in picking the side...

If you swapped Stockdale and Earls, so they’d be on the correct wings, and assuming you meant Keenan, you’d be guessing a very probable selection IMO.

sydthebeat

The Inbetween is mine wrote: »

1: Healy
2: Kelleher
3: Furlong
4: Henderson
5: Beirne
6: POM
7:Connors
8: Stander
9:Murray
10: Sexy..
11:Earls
12: Aki
13: Henshaw
14: Stockdale
15: Heenan

That's the team I want to see... but I'm not sure I have any say in picking the side...

I think that's the same as GTs suggested team.

ROC has Lowe retained in his.

Both have POM starting

The Inbetween is mine

Jump_In_Jack wrote: »

If you swapped Stockdale and Earls, so they’d be on the correct wings, and assuming you meant Keenan, you’d be guessing a very probable selection IMO.

Indeed....I was trying to get Jake back to Ireland I think

Buer

I don't think there's any doubt that POM will be starting. Very little chance of Baird getting the nod, nor should he really. He has a great impact from the bench and is still getting up to speed.

It's a straight call between POM and Conan. With Ryan out, it makes far more sense to bring in an experienced member of the leadership group who offers a strong threat in the line out on both sides of possession. Good to see that the usual narrative remains on here though; many people simply cannot praise or advocate for a player without having to sh*t on another. Both Conan and POM are excellent players. POM is a far more proven performer at test level though and his presence in the team leads to less disruption in the line up and/or tactics. Conan has always been a very solid performer for Ireland and gone well against tier 1 teams when called upon.

If Ryan was available, there'd be a better chance of Conan being retained on the bench and POM not making the 23 but with Ryan out, it makes far more sense to bring POM directly into the line up.

irelandrover

sydthebeat wrote: »

Its very much an issue, and one patently obvious when you look at England and their poor start to the competition.

Those sarries players weren't injured and were all training, they just were not match fit... And were shown up for it against Scotland. 4 games in and they are now humming nicely as seen against France.

POM has had zero competitive rugby in seven weeks. It would be a huge gamble to expect him to be at the levels required for a test game against England, when coming in that cold. Compared to the available alternatives that's not a gamble that I would take..

Disclaimer: the above is my opinion and should not be taken as fact, evidence or any sort of empirical proof based on anything other that my own observations and extrapolations.

But when was the last time the Saracens played a high level game before the start of the six nations?

sydthebeat

irelandrover wrote: »

But when was the last time the Saracens played a high level game before the start of the six nations?

Saracens don't play test rugby.

Theres no way of arguing today POM wont be coming in lacking test match fitness. He will be playing with and against players who have that level already.

The question is can he reach that pitch of intensity required to be influential on the game....should he be selected.

If he is, then hopefully he will have a stormer.

irelandrover

sydthebeat wrote: »

Saracens don't play test rugby.

Oh really? I thought they did. That makes my argument completely invalid then. Sorry to bother you.

Interested Observer

Thornley:

IRELAND (possible) v ENGLAND: Hugo Keenan; Keith Earls, Robbie Henshaw, Bundee Aki, Jacob Stockdale; Johnny Sexton (capt), Conor Murray; Cian Healy, Rob Herring, Tadhg Furlong, Iain Henderson, Tadhg Beirne, Peter O’Mahony, Will Connors, CJ Stander.
Replacements: Rónán Kelleher, David Kilcoyne, Andrew Porter, Ryan Baird, Jack Conan, Jamison Gibson-Park, Billy Burns, Jordan Larmour.

He's gotten a few teams wrong though since Farrell came in.

sydthebeat

irelandrover wrote: »

Oh really? I thought they did. That makes my argument completely invalid then. Sorry to bother you.

Not invalid, just wrong.

Saracens don't play test rugby the way munster don't play test rugby.


The whole point is POM had played NO RUGBY in the last seven weeks, which is no where near ideal coming into a game against England

The Inbetween is mine

Just saw an Indo headline by Neil Francis....he's gone down the Ewan McKenna route unfortunately, ...
Can't play for Ireland unless you're Irish or have an Irish passport...and a pic of CJ front and centre in the article

irelandrover

sydthebeat wrote: »

Not invalid, just wrong.

Saracens don't play test rugby the way munster don't play test rugby.


The whole point is POM had played NO RUGBY in the last seven weeks, which is no where near ideal coming into a game against England

if people needed test rugby then every player would arrive into the six nations cold and you wouldnt have had to reference Sarries players. Thats why i said high level rugby and not test rugby.

PoM has been playing at a high level all year and has been able to train during the time he has missed matches. So he has played rubgy in the last 6 weeks.

You talk like its impossible for players to come back into the team after a suspension but Liam williams did it in this sixnations.

sydthebeat

Why would it be impossible to come back after a suspension? They are not career ending.

You don't seem to get it, so they'd no point explaining it to you for a third time

irelandrover

sydthebeat wrote: »

Why would it be impossible to come back after a suspension? They are not career ending.

You don't seem to get it, so they'd no point explaining it to you for a third time

I get what your saying. You are saying that PoM hasnt played rugby in 7 weeks so he cant come back in.

I disagree with you. He has been training since he hasn't been injured. He was playing to a high level before his suspension. I used Liam Williams as an example as a player who came straight back in after a suspension.

If a player has been off injured and hasnt been able to train then i think saying they cant come back in is valid. If they have been suspended then i dont think its valid.

I expect some condescending comment back now where you reference how clubs don't play test rugby.

sydthebeat

irelandrover wrote: »

I get what your saying. You are saying that PoM hasnt played rugby in 7 weeks so he cant come back in.

.

????

no i did not !!!

salmocab

irelandrover wrote: »

I get what your saying. You are saying that PoM hasnt played rugby in 7 weeks so he cant come back in.
y.

You don’t get what he’s saying at all as the above is not what he said.

irelandrover

sydthebeat wrote: »

????

no i did not !!!

That should have been "he shouldn't come back in". I agree that you didn't say he cant come back in.

Seems like we wont agree anyway. You see it as a huge gamble, i don't see it as a huge gamble.

Former Former Former

It's not ideal playing POM after a long break but it's not like he's coming back from injury, he's been training full pelt all along. He won't have any issues with coming up to intensity.

It's a pity for Beirne as he looks much better at 6 than second row but it would be a huge ask of Baird.

TLDR be grand

yerrahbah

Murray straight back in?

I wonder would he have started against Scotland if fully fit

Fredinho

The Inbetween is mine wrote: »

Just saw an Indo headline by Neil Francis....he's gone down the Ewan McKenna route unfortunately, ...
Can't play for Ireland unless you're Irish or have an Irish passport...and a pic of CJ front and centre in the article

I think the first mistake you made was assuming that Francis would ever be any other way about it. Rather than say I don't agree with project players as is well known and wish CJ well in choosing his health, family and faith above a game he went on the attack and dragged Jack Conan into to make a point.

CJ Stander since the day he arrived in the country immersed himself in the culture of Munster and Irish Rugby. When he got the call to Ireland he embraced it with both hands, learned the national anthem of our country (a foreign language to him) and belted it out. More than can be said for many from this island and also any almost every other project player that's been brought into a green jersey.

CJ's reputation in the game is of a gentleman, a warrior and a player that plays with a smile on his face and yet most if the D4 media couldn't wait to have a pop at him. Shame on us as a country that can't recognise the terrific work that someone not from these shores who came here, worked their arses off, represented us with distinction and now put his families needs above his own. Typical begrudgery

bilston

Former Former Former wrote: »

It's not ideal playing POM after a long break but it's not like he's coming back from injury, he's been training full pelt all along. He won't have any issues with coming up to intensity.

It's a pity for Beirne as he looks much better at 6 than second row but it would be a huge ask of Baird.

TLDR be grand

I'd throw Baird in. To me he just looks ready for it. He looks to have the physicality to compete with the English.

But then my mortgage doesn't depend on these things so the O'Mahony route is understandable from Farrells's perspective.

salmocab

Fredinho wrote: »

I think the first mistake you made was assuming that Francis would ever be any other way about it. Rather than say I don't agree with project players as is well known and wish CJ well in choosing his health, family and faith above a game he went on the attack and dragged Jack Conan into to make a point.

CJ Stander since the day he arrived in the country immersed himself in the culture of Munster and Irish Rugby. When he got the call to Ireland he embraced it with both hands, learned the national anthem of our country (a foreign language to him) and belted it out. More than can be said for many from this island and also any almost every other project player that's been brought into a green jersey.

CJ's reputation in the game is of a gentleman, a warrior and a player that plays with a smile on his face and yet most if the D4 media couldn't wait to have a pop at him. Shame on us as a country that can't recognise the terrific work that someone not from these shores who came here, worked their arses off, represented us with distinction and now put his families needs above his own. Typical begrudgery

Most of the D4 media? Who and what is D4 media anyway? RTÉ I presume as I’m not sure any other media is based there. Did most of the RTÉ pundits have a pop at him?

Burkie1203

leakyboots wrote: »

Baird over POM, some people are jumping the shark completely - you really want to put a virtually untried Baird in against England from the off?

Baird's time will come if he proves himself further. More power to him if he is picked but I can't see if happening.

POM had rightfully earned the jersey before the tournament, he hasn't become a crap player because of a moment of stupidity. Harsh on Connors perhaps given his performances but POM is the better player. I'd have Connors on the bench.

And POM wouldn't be moving Beirne, I would have thought that was obvious. The decision on that head-to-head doesn't have to happen as Beirne will move to the engine room anyway as he's next best second row and is needed there

And what if Henderson or Beirne go off after 5 minutes. And Baird comes on. Why have Baird in the squad at all so?

TRC10

molloyjh wrote: »

So you aren't willing to just caveat it as your opinion. You do actually want to dictate it as truth. Because you're, what, special or something?

This is exactly the sort of crap that makes this place such a sh**show during international windows.

Of course it's my opinion. I suppose I should begin every post with "it is my opinion that.." so that I don't confuse you.

You could literally do that with every post and say "oh that's just your opinion, stop proclaiming it to be fact". Yeah of course it's their opinion, that's the whole ****ing point.

You haven't played some trump card by saying "that's your opinion"

sydthebeat

salmocab wrote: »

Most of the D4 media? Who and what is D4 media anyway? RTÉ I presume as I’m not sure any other media is based there. Did most of the RTÉ pundits have a pop at him?

anyone who listens to the RTE rugby podcast will know that they are anything but anti-munster with Wes Liddy and Donal Lenihan.

Former Former Former

Whenever you see the term "D4 media" you can instantly disregard anything that person has ever said about anything.

It's a real time saver.

salmocab

Former Former Former wrote: »

Whenever you see the term "D4 media" you can instantly disregard anything that person has ever said about anything.

It's a real time saver.

Oh it’s definitely a chip on your shoulder comment.

kilns

It seems inevitable that POM will start in Saturday. Fir me personally that is the wrong and a conservative call to make. Is POM going to improve the side, yes as an extra lineout jumper and potential to jackal one or two balls. However, I believe he will weaken our pack as in my opinion he is a luxury player that we cannot afford to carry, he does not carry the ball, his tackling is usually the lowest of all the pack, he is much less physical than other 6s. I don't buy into this crap about passion and leadership, that's not good enough when other areas of your game are not up to scratch and simply there are better players vying for the position. The English back row will have a field day against him I think.

In my opinion it's players like him, Sexton and Murray who will hold Ireland back and stop Irelanx progressing their game to a more fluid type of game to which we want to play. Why do I say they will hold us back? POM offers no dynamisium and carries no threat when Ireland are going forward, Murray is just too slow at getting the ball away and kills any attacking threat we may have, Sexton is regressing which is natural and is a Sexton near the end of his game going to change his game to facilitate a culture change, hopefully Carbury comes back to full fitness and someway close to his best.

Having said all that Ireland will probably win on Saturday in the last minute from a POM turnover which goes to Murray who scores in the corner and Sexton kicks the difficult conversion

thegreycity

I knew it was the D4 media! Even when it was the bears I knew it was them.

arsebiscuits1

The Inbetween is mine wrote: »

Just saw an Indo headline by Neil Francis....he's gone down the Ewan McKenna route unfortunately, ...
Can't play for Ireland unless you're Irish or have an Irish passport...and a pic of CJ front and centre in the article

These shock journos only have jobs because people read and react. Mostly negatively but occasionally positively. But they react nonetheless.

Don't read. Don't react. My life is much better for it ha

sydthebeat

i love how Lukes podcast has taken on the nickname " the right wing"