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Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

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    #6032
    phog
    Registered Users Posts: 24,314 ✭✭✭✭phog


    TRC10 wrote: »
    Jesus christ nobody is "trying to be right" about anything, I just have an opinion so get down of your height horse for a minute. Anyway Furlong was only on the bench for the Wales game and had played 40 minutes the week before, I don't think anyone had an issue with that.

    And as you know, the game time issue is just one of a few reasons why I wouldn't start POM (I'd have him on the bench). You also must consider that his replacements are playing really well.

    The Lowe selection (while I wouldn't have done it) was a bold and exciting selection because we were desperately in need of some flair and creativity. Also, the other wingers weren't exactly setting the world alight.

    Starting POM is neither bold nor exciting. It's a terribly conservative step in the wrong direction. And POMs replacements (Beirne, Conan, Baird, Connors, VDF) are all playing excellently.

    The game time issue was only one of multiple issues. But of course you cherry pick that one so that you can go back to week one and say "gotcha"

    Hold on - YOU SAID "match fitness is a thing" so it's you that's on the high horse.

    If you think 40 minutes is enough after nearly a year out for Furlong then surely POM is match fit after serving a short suspension where could he could actually train with the squad.

    Anyway, I couldn't really be bothered as the championship is over for us. I just want to see us win.


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    #6033
    TRC10
    Registered Users Posts: 3,941 ✭✭✭TRC10


    phog wrote: »
    Hold on - YOU SAID "match fitness is a thing" so it's you that;s on the high horse.

    If you think 40 minutes is enough after nearly a year out for Furlong then surely POM is match fit after serving a short suspension where could he could actually train with the squad.

    Again, you're obsessed with the match fitness issue.

    Furlong on the bench was the right call, despite his lack of minutes, because Tadhg Furlong is one of the best bloody players in the world.

    POM just isn't. His lack of game time is one of MULTIPLE reasons why he shouldn't start.


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    #6034
    phog
    Registered Users Posts: 24,314 ✭✭✭✭phog


    TRC10 wrote: »
    Again, you're obsessed with the match fitness issue.

    Furlong on the bench was the right call, despite his lack of minutes, because Tadhg Furlong is one of the best bloody players in the world.

    POM just isn't. His lack of game time is one of MULTIPLE reasons why he shouldn't start.

    Go on, admit it, you don't rate POM.

    Make it easy on us all.


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    #6035
    TRC10
    Registered Users Posts: 3,941 ✭✭✭TRC10


    phog wrote: »
    Go on, admit it, you don't rate POM.

    Make it easy on us all.

    It's one extreme or the other with you isn't it.

    A: You chuck him straight back into the starting team after 7 weeks out after costing us a game with a moment of madness, and others are playing better

    B: You don't rate him

    It's neither.


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    #6036
    phog
    Registered Users Posts: 24,314 ✭✭✭✭phog


    TRC10 wrote: »
    It's one extreme or the other with you isn't it.

    A: You chuck him straight back into the starting team after 7 weeks out after costing us a game with a moment of madness, and other playing better

    B: You don't rate him

    It's neither.

    You're not chucking him in anywhere, he was there a few weeks back.

    Perhaps your choice of language doesn't help your argument


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    #6037
    TRC10
    Registered Users Posts: 3,941 ✭✭✭TRC10


    phog wrote: »
    You're not chucking him in anywhere, he was there a few weeks back.

    Perhaps your choice of language doesn't help your argument

    I'm not getting into semantics with you. If you've given up talking about rugby then I'm done


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    #6038
    eagle eye
    Registered Users Posts: 38,388 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    kilns wrote:
    and to be fair its a bit extreme to say someone hasnt a clue if they believe POM shouldnt be starting because there are legitimate reasons for that call
    There are no legitimate reasons, he's a fantastic player.
    I did say he either has an agenda or hasn't a clue and I'd fancy the former is the case.
    Maybe doesn't like Munster or Cork.


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    #6039
    sebdavis
    Closed Accounts Posts: 891 ✭✭✭sebdavis


    TRC10 wrote: »
    I'm not getting into semantics with you. If you've given up talking about rugby then I'm done

    IT will be all over soon and POM will be in the team so no point arguing about it.


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    #6040
    TRC10
    Registered Users Posts: 3,941 ✭✭✭TRC10


    eagle eye wrote: »
    There are no legitimate reasons, he's a fantastic player.
    I did say he either has an agenda or hasn't a clue and I'd fancy the former is the case.
    Maybe doesn't like Munster or Cork.

    There are no legitimate reasons to not start a player who literally cost us the game the last time he started.

    I've heard it all now.

    My dad's from Cork, lovely place.


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    #6041
    Mathias Fluffy Revolt
    Posts: 0 ✭ Mathias Fluffy Revolt


    Stockdale not named in the Ulster 23


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    #6042
    sebdavis
    Closed Accounts Posts: 891 ✭✭✭sebdavis


    eagle eye wrote: »
    There are no legitimate reasons, he's a fantastic player.
    I did say he either has an agenda or hasn't a clue and I'd fancy the former is the case.
    Maybe doesn't like Munster or Cork.

    Just because someone doesn't want to start POM doesn't mean they don't like Cork or Munster.
    Many reasons why POM should start and also plenty of reasons why he shouldn't. That is just a fact of it. POM is not a nailed on starter for Ireland anymore from what I can see. If we had Ryan fit this week I don't think he would have come back in but with Ryan out I could tell you our current management team was always going to go back to POM.


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    #6043
    kilns
    Registered Users Posts: 3,525 ✭✭✭kilns


    eagle eye wrote: »
    There are no legitimate reasons, he's a fantastic player.
    I did say he either has an agenda or hasn't a clue and I'd fancy the former is the case.
    Maybe doesn't like Munster or Cork.

    Stop bringing Munster and Cork into it, makes yourself look foolish

    Of course there are legitimate reasons for not starting O'mahoney this weekend, even if his biggest supporters would admit that but there are also logical reasons to start him too

    He is not a nailed on starter for Ireland at full strength


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    #6044
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    eagle eye wrote: »
    There are no legitimate reasons, he's a fantastic player.
    I did say he either has an agenda or hasn't a clue and I'd fancy the former is the case.
    Maybe doesn't like Munster or Cork.


    I actually assumed this was a p*** take and hoping I was right?


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    #6045
    Mathias Fluffy Revolt
    Posts: 0 ✭ Mathias Fluffy Revolt


    kilns wrote: »
    He is not a nailed on starter for Ireland at full strength


    May I ask who is ahead of him?


    In Ireland's last 17 games he has started 12 with the games he didn't start being Samoa (RWC 2019), Scotland (6N 2020), Italy (6N 2020), France (6N 2020) and Georgia (ANC 2020) but has started 3 times against England; 4 times against Wales; twice against Scotland and once against NZ, Japan, Russia.


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    #6046
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Vincenzo Gentle Stack wrote: »
    May I ask who is ahead of him?


    Ryan Baird and Ultan Dillane.


    Oh sorry they play a different position.


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    #6047
    kilns
    Registered Users Posts: 3,525 ✭✭✭kilns


    Vincenzo Gentle Stack wrote: »
    May I ask who is ahead of him?


    In Ireland's last 17 games he has started 12 with the games he didn't start being Samoa (RWC 2019), Scotland (6N 2020), Italy (6N 2020), France (6N 2020) and Georgia (ANC 2020) but has started 3 times against England; 4 times against Wales; twice against Scotland and once against NZ, Japan, Russia.

    When everyone is fit he is not a nailed on starter, for Farrell's first six nations game he named Stander at 6 and Doris at 8 and VDf at 7 with POM on the bench.


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    #6048
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Vincenzo Gentle Stack wrote: »
    Stockdale not named in the Ulster 23

    Carbery not named for munster either!


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    #6049
    arsebiscuits1
    Registered Users Posts: 3,649 ✭✭✭arsebiscuits1


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Carbery not named for munster either!

    Carbery isn't in the Ireland squad though.

    Munster definitely just happy with his fitness and resting him for the final


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    #6050
    kilns
    Registered Users Posts: 3,525 ✭✭✭kilns


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    Carbery not named for munster either!

    Hopefully resting him and easing him back in gradually


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    #6051
    irishbucsfan
    Registered Users Posts: 37,978 ✭✭✭✭irishbucsfan


    ecoli3136 wrote: »
    Why not just pick the reserve second-row when you have an injury to the second-row?

    Or does the reserve have to wait until he has accumulated more minutes off the bench, in 10 minute chunks, over the next few years, mostly against Italy and the like, until he's "seasoned" (i.e. turning 30).

    Just to be clear, Baird is the reserve second-row because there are 3 established second rows in the starting team and he was next in line.

    There are 3 second rows who have started there for Ireland in this 6 Nations. Ian Henderson, James Ryan and Tadgh Beirne. James Ryan isn't available, so it seems likely the other two will start there.

    I don't think this is particularly complicated or controversial. It's nothing against Baird who I'm hoping will continue to develop into an absolutely quality player and who I think already offers a lot of impact off the bench due to his athleticism.


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    #6052
    thomond2006
    Registered Users Posts: 45,433 ✭✭✭✭thomond2006


    Baird can be really happy with his involvement to date.


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    #6053
    Mathias Fluffy Revolt
    Posts: 0 ✭ Mathias Fluffy Revolt


    kilns wrote: »
    When everyone is fit he is not a nailed on starter, for Farrell's first six nations game he named Stander at 6 and Doris at 8 and VDf at 7 with POM on the bench.

    Yes, and during the Autumn Nations Cup when all the aforementioned were fit, O'Mahony started 3 out of 4 games.


    13/11/2020 - Wales - POM 6, VDF 7
    21/11/2021 - England - POM 7, WC 20
    29/11/2020 - Georgia - POM 20, WC 7
    5/12/2020 - Scotland - POM 7, VDF 20


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    #6054
    ionadnapokot
    Registered Users Posts: 4,840 ✭✭✭ionadnapokot


    Serious Q's: Do people think this will be Sexton's last game for Ireland?
    I would say it is. Considering unlikely to be summer tour and hopefully the return of Carbery and Harry Byrne coming through.

    edit: I see he's on 99 caps....His last time starting for Ireland?


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    #6055
    Interested Observer
    Registered Users Posts: 13,105 ✭✭✭✭Interested Observer


    ionadnapokot wrote: »
    Serious Q's: Do people think this will be Sexton's last game for Ireland?
    I would say it is. Considering unlikely to be summer tour and hopefully the return of Carbery and Harry Byrne coming through.

    No, can't see how it will be.


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    #6056
    arsebiscuits1
    Registered Users Posts: 3,649 ✭✭✭arsebiscuits1


    ionadnapokot wrote: »
    Serious Q's: Do people think this will be Sexton's last game for Ireland?
    I would say it is. Considering unlikely to be summer tour and hopefully the return of Carbery and Harry Byrne coming through.

    Playing your last game for Ireland 2 weeks after signing a central extension would be a bit of a surprise


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    #6057
    Former Former Former
    Registered Users Posts: 5,983 ✭✭✭Former Former Former


    ionadnapokot wrote: »
    Serious Q's: Do people think this will be Sexton's last game for Ireland?
    I would say it is. Considering unlikely to be summer tour and hopefully the return of Carbery and Harry Byrne coming through.

    He's literally just signed a one-year extension. Hopefully he will start to be phased out over the next 12 months, but that's what it will be, a phasing out.


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    #6058
    sydthebeat
    Subscribers Posts: 41,589 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    ionadnapokot wrote: »
    Serious Q's: Do people think this will be Sexton's last game for Ireland?
    I would say it is. Considering unlikely to be summer tour and hopefully the return of Carbery and Harry Byrne coming through.

    no.... on current form

    he was given a full one year extension only a few weeks ago.
    he showed his value to us only last week where, its arguable, he won the game for us

    hes said that he feels his body and form is in a good place.

    so unless his form falls off a cliff (which certainly can happen rapidly).. no i cant see this being his last game.


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    #6059
    kilns
    Registered Users Posts: 3,525 ✭✭✭kilns


    Vincenzo Gentle Stack wrote: »
    Yes, and during the Autumn Nations Cup when all the aforementioned were fit, O'Mahony started 3 out of 4 games.


    13/11/2020 - Wales - POM 6, VDF 7
    21/11/2021 - England - POM 7, WC 20
    29/11/2020 - Georgia - POM 20, WC 7
    5/12/2020 - Scotland - POM 7, VDF 20

    You just made the point, yes he has periods in the team and periods when not in the team.

    If you are picking an Irish team he is not one of those players you write down first and say nailed on as he is not head and shoulders above players in his position.



    They are Sexton Furlong Ryan Ringrose and Stander


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    #6060
    TRC10
    Registered Users Posts: 3,941 ✭✭✭TRC10


    arsebiscuits1 wrote: »
    Playing your last game for Ireland 2 weeks after signing a central extension would be a bit of a surprise

    This post is sponsored by Jamie Heaslip


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    #6061
    kilns
    Registered Users Posts: 3,525 ✭✭✭kilns


    sydthebeat wrote: »
    no.... on current form

    he was given a full one year extension only a few weeks ago.
    he showed his value to us only last week where, its arguable, he won the game for us

    hes said that he feels his body and form is in a good place.

    so unless his form falls off a cliff (which certainly can happen rapidly).. no i cant see this being his last game.

    He is regressing though but is still our best 10, we need to find a solution and quick


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