Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

ec18

VANG1 wrote: »

England will target Sexton

lol searing insight there :rolleyes:

Every team since about 2013 has targeted Sexton

arsebiscuits1

VANG1 wrote: »

England will target Sexton

Are you available for freelance tactical consultancy by any chance mate? :pac::pac:

I'm just being a bollox. Ignore me

Sangre

I wonder if POM was ever starting or did the injury to Connors mean Farrell didn't want to start start POM, VDF and Stander as that is a pretty small back-row. Not that Connors is big but he hits like a big man in defence.

VANG1

They had to bring in VDF to protect Sexton

kilns

It is as good a team as expected given the circumstances.

We will not be subtle in the way we will play and to the neutral it will not be pretty but I dont think anyone would care as long as we won.

We certainly can get at England at 10/12 so could be interesting.

TRC10

VANG1 wrote: »

They had to bring in VDF to protect Sexton

Hmm interesting. Can you explain how VDF protects Sexton?

wittycynic

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Really interested to see how this one goes.

Hope Conan has a massive game, huge opportunity for him

Would have preferred POM instead of him, as I think POM is the better footballer, but it's certainly an opportunity for Conan to put his hand up as Stander's successor to the 8 jersey.

Not much in Conan's previous 20 caps tells me that's going to happen, but I'd love to be surprised.

TRC10

wittycynic wrote: »

Would have preferred POM instead of him, as I think POM is the better footballer, but it's certainly an opportunity for Conan to put his hand up as Stander's successor to the 8 jersey.

Not much in Conan's previous 20 caps tells me that's going to happen, but I'd love to be surprised.

Ok there are decent arguments for POMs inclusion but this isnt one. POM just isnt a better footballer. Conan is the best footballing 8 in Ireland. His offloading game is probably the best in Ireland too. Anyone who has watched Conan regularly will know this.

Conan started the 3rd test v Aus in 2018 and played well. He also played very well against Scotland and France in 2019.

The Inbetween is mine

TRC10 wrote: »

Hmm interesting. Can you explain how VDF protects Sexton?

Like Batman protects Gotham,

VANG1

well big billy runs at sextons to try and kill him but vdf tackles him instead, simple

Sanjuro

TRC10 wrote: »

Ok there are decent arguments for POMs inclusion but this isnt one. POM just isnt a better footballer. Conan is the best footballing 8 in Ireland. His offloading game is probably the best in Ireland too. Anyone who has watched Conan regularly will know this.

Conan started the 3rd test v Aus in 2018 and played well. He also played very well against Scotland and France in 2019.

Doris is better with a higher ceiling. Of course, it's moot as he's not available.

kilns

wittycynic wrote: »

Would have preferred POM instead of him, as I think POM is the better footballer, but it's certainly an opportunity for Conan to put his hand up as Stander's successor to the 8 jersey.

Not much in Conan's previous 20 caps tells me that's going to happen, but I'd love to be surprised.

I am guessing this was trying to wind the thread into another POM debate, you could have picked a better argument than being a better footballer...

The Inbetween is mine

TRC10 wrote: »

Ok there are decent arguments for POMs inclusion but this isnt one. POM just isnt a better footballer. Conan is the best footballing 8 in Ireland. His offloading game is probably the best in Ireland too. Anyone who has watched Conan regularly will know this.

Conan started the 3rd test v Aus in 2018 and played well. He also played very well against Scotland and France in 2019.

After this 6 nations it's hard to look past Doris & Coombes as natural picks ahead of Conan tbh

wittycynic

TRC10 wrote: »

Ok there are decent arguments for POMs inclusion but this isnt one. POM just isnt a better footballer. Conan is the best footballing 8 in Ireland. His offloading game is probably the best in Ireland too. Anyone who has watched Conan regularly will know this.

Conan started the 3rd test v Aus in 2018 and played well. He also played very well against Scotland and France in 2019.

If the bolded sentence were true Conan, who is currently 28, would have been more than a fringe player in Ireland squads since his introduction to the national team in 2015. He simply isn't that good, so hasn't been a staple of team in the way POM and others have in that period.

irishbucsfan

The Inbetween is mine wrote: »

After this 6 nations it's hard to look past Doris & Coombes as natural picks ahead of Conan tbh

Well Coombes needs to convince the coaches to cap him at all first. Then we can talk about him being a natural pick ahead of Conan

Doris hopefully will be back, he hasn't had such difficulty in convincing them obviously. He definitely seems the obvious successor to Stander at the moment.

wittycynic

kilns wrote: »

I am guessing this was trying to wind the thread into another POM debate, you could have picked a better argument than being a better footballer...

It was trying to "wind" nothing, and was just giving my opinion on the selection I would have preferred. Despite my obvious appreciation of cynicism, I don't appreciate you accusing me of it.

sydthebeat

VANG1 wrote: »

well big billy runs at sextons to try and kill him but vdf tackles him instead, simple

8s job to run at 10 off scrum = 7s job to tackle said 8


every game ever

Former Former Former

VANG1 wrote: »

well big billy runs at sextons to try and kill him but vdf tackles him instead, simple

This isn't really how it works on the rugby field.

kilns

wittycynic wrote: »

It was trying to "wind" nothing, and was just giving my opinion on the selection I would have preferred. Despite my obvious appreciation of cynicism, I don't appreciate you accusing me of it.

Well i dont know how you came to the conclusion that a player who doesnt carry the ball much and therefore hardly passes or offloads is a better footballer than a player who does it on a regular basis for Leinster

Pick another hill to die on

TRC10

wittycynic wrote: »

If the bolded sentence were true Conan, who is currently 28, would have been more than a fringe player in Ireland squads since his introduction to the national team in 2015. He simply isn't that good, so hasn't been a staple of team in the way POM and others have in that period.

Not necessarily. He was a fringe player because A: Joe Schmidt favoured the more one-dimensional player in Stander (not a criticism because we had success with that approach) and B: He had lengthy spells out with injury in 2019 and 2020.

I don't think it's a coincidence that the first time Conan has been fit during the Farrell era, he's been brought straight into the squad.

He also uses footwork pre-contact. And my god have we needed that against England in recent years.

The Inbetween is mine

Andy Farrell on Conor Murray "he's a big game player"
Not exactly a ringing endorsement for JGP

wittycynic

kilns wrote: »

Well i dont know how you came to the conclusion that a player who doesnt carry the ball much and therefore hardly passes or offloads is a better footballer than a player who does it on a regular basis for Leinster

Pick another hill to die on

For the most part Joe Schmidt, Andy Farrell, and Warren Gatland have seemed to rate POM ahead of Conan when picking their teams, so at least I'll have some decent company on the hill.

tgdaly

Good to Kilcoyne in for Healy in the front row. Actually surprised not too see POM starting, delighted they didn't go with him from the start, good to see Conan get a start and VDF back at 7. Murray and Stockdale back in the team, they need big games. Good to seeAki back in the centre too, although I hope Henshaw pushed out to 13 doesn't affect his good form. Could make cases for Larmour and Baird being deserving of starts. He's putting a lot of trust in Stockdale so hope he can deliver. At the same time it was an easy decision to drop Lowe

wittycynic

TRC10 wrote: »

Not necessarily. He was a fringe player because A: Joe Schmidt favoured the more one-dimensional player in Stander (not a criticism because we had success with that approach) and B: He had lengthy spells out with injury in 2019 and 2020.

I don't think it's a coincidence that the first time Conan has been fit during the Farrell era, he's been brought straight into the squad.

He also uses footwork pre-contact. And my god have we needed that against England in recent years.

Look, I hope you're right and I'd love to see him put in a big performance and kick on from there for Ireland. If he can help spark some creativity in our attack it'll be great, as something there is badly needed.

I love to be proved wrong on the more pessimistic of my predictions.

BoardsMember

wittycynic wrote: »

For the most part Joe Schmidt, Andy Farrell, and Warren Gatland have seemed to rate POM ahead of Conan when picking their teams, so at least I'll have some decent company on the hill.

They play different positions, right? Re Conan, he was behind Heaslip for a long time, so probably didn't get as much chance to shine/show his full potential at the top level until 2018.

wittycynic

BoardsMember wrote: »

They play different positions, right? Re Conan, he was behind Heaslip for a long time, so probably didn't get as much chance to shine/show his full potential at the top level until 2018.

Of course, but I was largely referring to the fact that POM has been seen by his international coaches as an important player to have in your starting backrow, while Conan has not tended to be seen in that light.

kilns

wittycynic wrote: »

For the most part Joe Schmidt, Andy Farrell, and Warren Gatland have seemed to rate POM ahead of Conan when picking their teams, so at least I'll have some decent company on the hill.

Did they pick him cause he was a great footballer? mmmmmmmmmmmmmm

Buer

The Inbetween is mine wrote: »

After this 6 nations it's hard to look past Doris & Coombes as natural picks ahead of Conan tbh

Doris, yes. Coombes will ultimately be a yes I believe but, at this point, the coaching team obviously see him as having work ons.

When Conan came straight back into the Irish squad with 2 starts in 4 months and Coombes was released in the same announcement, I think it was a fairly emphatic comment on the pecking order in Farrell's mind. Similarly, it would have been very easy (and expected) to bring POM into the team and leave Conan out. I'd have done it, to be honest due to the set piece.

Conan is a guy who appears to be far more rated within his squads than in the eyes of the wider public in recent seasons.

wittycynic

kilns wrote: »

Did they pick him cause he was a great footballer? mmmmmmmmmmmmmm

Yes.

aloooof

kilns wrote: »

Did they pick him cause he was a great footballer? mmmmmmmmmmmmmm

I think he's a lot better than he's often given credit for. He's shown examples of it this season. Thinking specifically things like his amazing offload vs Italy, his pass to Earls for his try in the corner, or with Munster his involvement to straighten and pass to Haley for his try vs Clermont.