Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

kilns

wittycynic wrote: »

Yes.

ok

I dont think you get the concept of footballer in rugby terms so lets leave it as is

wittycynic

kilns wrote: »

ok

I dont think you get the concept of footballer in rugby terms so lets leave it as is

Nor do I think you do but, as you say, there's no point in continuing a conversation on the subject.

kilns

wittycynic wrote: »

Nor do I think you do but, as you say, there's no point in continuing a conversation on the subject.

Explain it to me so? Do you consider Stander to be a great footballer too?

Larbre34

I'd be concerned about dropping one poor defender for another, but he's been doing the work so we'll see.

I'm backing Jack Conan all the way. He's has some poor luck with injuries and obviously being up against Heaslip and Stander for the shirt, but he's a very skillful and clever player and well as a wrecking ball when needs be. Ideal for England.

Can we stop with the 'footballer' nonsense too. Its the likes of Eddie O'Sullivan who persists with it and its meaningless rubbish. If a Forward is a great reader of the game, who puts himself in brilliant positions and has a top drawer skillset, he's just a good player.

Clegg

Connors is a huge loss. I rate VDF highly, but he just isn't as effective a tackler as the former. Connors would have been crucial in halting England's carriers.

leakyboots

Interesting team.

Killer starting with Healy on the bench is the wrong call for me. I'd leave it the other way around.

Back row - didn't see Conan starting, a bit surprised by that as not sure he has it at this level, hope he has a big game. Connors is a big loss as he's been a better link man than VdF in the limited gametime he's gotten.

Glad JGP is dropped, I was one of those who thought his kicking was poor the last day and the running up blind alleys was frustrating. He's a bit too headless for my liking.

Lowe was an easy call, he couldn't have started after his defensive displays in the tournament. Would love to see Stockdale get a bit of redemption and have a stormer.

Aki and Henshaw will put it up to them defensively.

CJ to get a try and round up a brilliant win and brilliant career please!

Dubinusa

Good man Andy!! I think that's a good line up. Kilcoyne has deserved the chance, now he needs a performance. I reckon that is a form pick and it's timely. Herring too is deservedly starting, very underappreciated and under rated. Welcome back Jacob!!! Delighted to see him included. Harsh on Larmour but I can see the logic of having Larmour on the bench.
I feel we have a good chance. I believe Owen Farrell has been off the boil and I think that midfield could be an in for us. Very disappointed for JGP, Murray won't up the pace and keep England moving. I expect a lot of garryowens. A good performance is needed, a win would be great, but overall, we've been a poor enough side this season.

aloooof

Clegg wrote: »

Connors is a huge loss. I rate VDF highly, but he just isn't as effective a tackler as the former. Connors would have been crucial in halting England's carriers.

He's been excellent and even had some very good involvements with the ball the last day, too.

I wonder if his absence had an impact on the POM selection; with a chop tackler like Connors on the field, you'd expect the likes of Beirne, Stander and POM to have more opportunities to turn over ball.

Squidgy Black

Little bit disappointed that they shifted Henshaw to 13 because he's been playing some of the best rugby of his career (since he moved from 15 in his early days) at 12 this season, but it's understandable as Aki seems to play better at 12 and Farrell has been a bit off the mark this season compared to previous.

Connors is a big loss in terms of his handling but VdF will make up for it in tackle count and work rate hopefully.

Should be interesting to see how we get on with Conan at 8 and CJ at 6. I'm a big fan of Conan but he hasn't impressed in a green shirt yet despite some fantastic performances for Leinster, but alongside CJ I think he could have an impact.

sebdavis

I am delighted to see Conan get a shot at 8 in a big game like this.

Former Former Former

The Inbetween is mine wrote: »

Andy Farrell on Conor Murray "he's a big game player"
Not exactly a ringing endorsement for JGP

It's weird, you could read that any number of ways and you could take it just as easily to be a criticism of Murray.

Ultimately the only endorsement that matters is who gets picked.

OneLungDavy

3 players down from last week is a big loss, devastated for Connors. Has VDF ever had a good game against England? Glad to see Conan and Kilcoyne get the nod.

I don't really see what Aki brings apart from physicality in defense and a lot of shouting.

Dubinusa

At least Farrell had the sense to drop Lowe. It will benifit Lowe to return to Leinster and get some confidence. I would expect he's straight in for the pro 12 final next week.

Larbre34

Has anyone in recent years? VdF will go well against England, loves covering ground, nice dry day, they should've entered him in Cheltenham.

sydthebeat

cant be too many worries about creativity in the back line against england as the plan is clearly not to get the ball beyond the midfield.

we're going to kick the leather off the ball so much it will resemble a tennis match

Clegg

Probably Stander's last game in green as afaik there won't be a summer tour. It's a big shame Doris was injured for this tournament as I would've liked to have seen more of CJ at blindside and he at 8.

Looking ahead and provided Doris can stay injury free I think our backrow will be Beirne, Connors and Doris. Really like the balance that that brings. Beirne being an excellent lineout and poaching threat, Connors to chop players down and Doris has an excellent all round game

Interested Observer

Really disappointed for Connors, he's been so good and had a really chance to cement his spot.

Really pleased for Conan. He's been playing great stuff for Leinster the last while, up to him to translate that to Ireland.

Overall, think it's a decent selection. He could have done a lot worse.

Clegg

Murray Kinsella and Bernard Jackman are very negative on the.42 rugby podcast which is unusual as they're normally quite upbeat about Ireland's potential. Kinsella in particular thinks we've gone backwards in terms of attacking structure.

He compared the game Vs Scotland in the Autumn Nations Cup to last week's game and thinks we're in a very bad position. Last November there were glimpses of the gamplan Farrell was working towards, but with the exception of the Italy game we've seen no such attacking structure this season. Jackman thinks we're in for a hiding. Complimented our forwards doing a number on the Scottish lineout, but thinks we wing have the same successes this weekend.

They concluded that Ireland right now are winning games on attitude alone. We're fully of heart and commitment and well organised but showing little in the way of skill outside of the forwards. It's fairly scathing really and not something I expected from either.

mun1

Happy with that selection and I’m sure they will get stuck into England.
Wouldn’t have gone with Conan but he deserves a shot at it . Delighted for VDF , kilcoyne at getting the starts.
Great to see aki at 12 as this will let henshaw show a bit more at 13.

Feel a bit sorry for Lowe as i though his first interactions last week were very positive , but needs to be much better in defence.

Good Bench of Healy , kelleher , Baird , POM, Porter, larmour will hopefully add a lot of energy and hopefully we are ahead at the stage.

Interested Observer

Clegg wrote: »

Murray Kinsella and Bernard Jackman are very negative on the.42 rugby podcast which is unusual as they're normally quite upbeat about Ireland's potential. Kinsella in particular thinks we've gone backwards in terms of attacking structure.

He compared the game Vs Scotland in the Autumn Nations Cup to last week's game and thinks we're in a very bad position. Last November there were glimpses of the gamplan Farrell was working towards, but with the exception of the Italy game we've seen no such attacking structure this season. Jackman thinks we're in for a hiding. Complimented our forwards doing a number on the Scottish lineout, but thinks we wing have the same successes this weekend.

They concluded that Ireland right now are winning games on attitude alone. We're fully of heart and commitment and well organised but showing little in the way of skill outside of the forwards. It's fairly scathing really and not something I expected from either.

Was similar enough on Second Captains earlier in the week with Horgan and Trimble. I thought they were quite insightful actually. Had generally given up on Murray K + friends for the reason underlined, they often seem a bit divorced from reality, but interesting that they had similar sentiment.

Skyfloater

Clegg wrote: »

Murray Kinsella and Bernard Jackman are very negative on the.42 rugby podcast which is unusual as they're normally quite upbeat about Ireland's potential. Kinsella in particular thinks we've gone backwards in terms of attacking structure.

He compared the game Vs Scotland in the Autumn Nations Cup to last week's game and thinks we're in a very bad position. Last November there were glimpses of the gamplan Farrell was working towards, but with the exception of the Italy game we've seen no such attacking structure this season. Jackman thinks we're in for a hiding. Complimented our forwards doing a number on the Scottish lineout, but thinks we wing have the same successes this weekend.

They concluded that Ireland right now are winning games on attitude alone. We're fully of heart and commitment and well organised but showing little in the way of skill outside of the forwards. It's fairly scathing really and not something I expected from either.

Can't argue with any of that. If we don't show tangible signs of an improved attack plan, Mike Catt has to be shown the door.

kilns

Skyfloater wrote: »

Can't argue with any of that. If we don't show tangible signs of an improved attack plan, Mike Catt has to be shown the door.

With Murray and Aki picked we are not going to see any pretty attacking patterns this weekend from Ireland

Clegg

Clegg wrote: »

Kinsella in particular thinks we've gone backwards in terms of attacking structure.

Pretty much my thoughts exactly. We are creating space and overlaps and not using them and players that generally link up well with those around them at their provinces look hesitant and unsure.

Lowe is absolutely a victim of this, hasn't been used effectively going forward and isn't a strong defender at this level yet and his performances have suffered. Same was the case for Stockdale earlier in the season.

I watched Ringrose at the weekend and whilst he may have been carrying a knock - his decision making was poor and that has never really been a part of his game.

For sure - the effort and intensity is there and the pack are going well, but another loss this weekend and I fear heads will start to drop. Once that happens the work rate may well start to fall off and then we're in a real spot of bother.

Dubinusa

I reckon Catt is done either way. The backline are playing as individuals. No one has any confidence. There is no script and there doesn't seem to be one emerging, so far. With the talent available, it's disheartening.

Clegg

Everyone should give the 42 podcast a listen is it's a good one this week.

Kinsella and Jackman openly questioned if Farrell and Catt have completely misread where the game of rugby is going. Set play starters are becoming even more important and highlighted the trys and attacks England and France built from set plays in last weekends game. They then looked at our set plays in comparison to Schmidt's and believe we've regressed a lot in that area.

After the World Cup the players said they wanted more freedom in how they attack and that has been given to them. But there hasn't been enough guidance given on how and when that should be done. So we've a group of players who don't know when to attack and a lack of set piece moves to even help start attacks. It's all a mess.

Brief_Lives

Add the link then, but if it includes Jackman, I'd have second thoughts listening to it. but i might since there is a recommendation...

TRC10

Brief_Lives wrote: »

Add the link then, but if it includes Jackman, I'd have second thoughts listening to it. but i might since there is a recommendation...

I don't understand the dislike of Jackman. The guy has coached in Ireland, Wales and France and has better insight than 90% of analysts who just tell you what you already know.

sebdavis

TRC10 wrote: »

I don't understand the dislike of Jackman. The guy has coached in Ireland, Wales and France and has better insight than 90% of analysts who just tell you what you already know.

No idea, I always found him very good and not as afraid to speak his mind like some of the others. His insight into French rugby is always excellent as well

D.Q

TRC10 wrote: »

I don't understand the dislike of Jackman. The guy has coached in Ireland, Wales and France and has better insight than 90% of analysts who just tell you what you already know.

Better than Shane Horgans obsession with tariffs anyway

CMcsporty

Clegg wrote: »

Murray Kinsella and Bernard Jackman are very negative on the.42 rugby podcast which is unusual as they're normally quite upbeat about Ireland's potential. Kinsella in particular thinks we've gone backwards in terms of attacking structure.

He compared the game Vs Scotland in the Autumn Nations Cup to last week's game and thinks we're in a very bad position. Last November there were glimpses of the gamplan Farrell was working towards, but with the exception of the Italy game we've seen no such attacking structure this season. Jackman thinks we're in for a hiding. Complimented our forwards doing a number on the Scottish lineout, but thinks we wing have the same successes this weekend.

They concluded that Ireland right now are winning games on attitude alone. We're fully of heart and commitment and well organised but showing little in the way of skill outside of the forwards. It's fairly scathing really and not something I expected from either.

I find MK always balanced and fair in his analysis and critique. Eoin Toolan also. They have both been critical of Irelands attack since the France game in 2020 in particular.

Even BOD is now also been critical because It's painfully obvious that even off 1st phase attack Ireland are appallingly limited.