Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

irishbucsfan

AbusesToilets wrote: »

Ireland's attacking shape has been so atrocious, he's had very little opportunity to showcase his worth. Folks are quick to declare his career over, due to his defensive failings. His comrade on the opposite wing would be an instructive case study. No one could accuse Earls of defensive soundness for the majority of his career. How many howlers has he had over the years, many far worse than Lowe's.

To br fair to Earls, he struggled as a winger in 2010 (yes, that long ago!), then very quickly improved defensively in that position... but he was shifted into midfield and it started all over again

If Lowe ends up as defensively sound as Earls on the wing we'll be very lucky

nerd69

AbusesToilets wrote: »

Ireland's attacking shape has been so atrocious, he's had very little opportunity to showcase his worth. Folks are quick to declare his career over, due to his defensive failings. His comrade on the opposite wing would be an instructive case study. No one could accuse Earls of defensive soundness for the majority of his career. How many howlers has he had over the years, many far worse than Lowe's.

Earls until about 25 had issues he brine through internationaly at about 21-22. Lowe is 29 are we hoping he sorts himself out by mid 30s?
I don't think his career is over by any means but he's not up to it internationaly right now if he can go back to leinster and work on it his boot and carrying could be a huge weapon next world cup but hes not able defensivly yet

Ardillaun

We’re a long way behind Wales in the back three. May’s threat was comfortably handled by RZ and Williams, with RZ showing perhaps more pace than JM, and North pitched in when required. Let’s hope Henshaw plays well.

I’m really surprised by Connors being dropped. What a tackler.

The result depends on England. If they get it together, I fear we’re done and dusted.

testtech05

Ardillaun wrote: »

We’re a long way behind Wales in the back three. May’s threat was comfortably handled by RZ and Williams, with RZ showing perhaps more pace than JM, and North pitched in when required.

I’m really surprised by Connors being dropped. What a tackler.

The result depends on England. If they get it together, I fear we’re done and dusted.

Connors injured his knee in training, not dropped

Ardillaun

testtech05 wrote: »

Connors injured his knee in training, not dropped

Thanks, that makes a lot more sense. Yet again, should have checked before posting.

ElisaAtWar

Was interesting listening to Simon Easterbury on the 6one today. His analysis that Ireland has learnt from this 6nations, has identified the issues. That was a short but incredible interview. It was along the lines we knew nothing but now we know something.

What's flabbergasting about that interview is that it suggested the coaching team knew nothing in the first place. Which begs the question why are they the coaching team if they know nothing

kilns

The Inbetween is mine wrote: »

So you're saying we have a has-been & a never-will-be .. I guess you're half right anyways

So do you think Keith Earls would make any other top 8 international team?

The point being if we had a sufficient depth of quality in that position he would not be in the team

sebdavis

ElisaAtWar wrote: »

Was interesting listening to Simon Easterbury on the 6one today. His analysis that Ireland has learnt from this 6nations, has identified the issues. That was a short but incredible interview. It was along the lines we knew nothing but now we know something.

What's flabbergasting about that interview is that it suggested the coaching team knew nothing in the first place. Which begs the question why are they the coaching team if they know nothing

At this stage they are better off keeping the mic away from the coaching team. If I have to listen to another ramble from Farrell about pashion and the guys loving training I will spew.

sebdavis

Former Former Former wrote: »

The difference is not only the step up from provincial to international, but also the fact that Lowe is playing for (arguably) the best club in Europe. He gets a platform that very few others do.

If you stuck him in the Dragons or Edinburgh, would he still look as amazing?

Yes

honestbroker

kilns wrote: »

So do you think Keith Earls would make any other top 8 international team?

The point being if we had a sufficient depth of quality in that position he would not be in the team

What kind of reasoning is that? If applied to the whole team none of them would be picked.
Currently he is the best available for that position .

sebdavis

Something to watch out today. Cowan Dickie, I think it was mentioned on one of the podcast but a few mates have said it. Against France he jumped at players knee's twice. If he connects he ends a career. I was talking to friend and he mentioned he done the same v Sincklar when he cursed at the ref and got ban.

Cant find the France game but this is the Sincklar one
https://twitter.com/AndyGoode10/status/1347979702477217792

aloooof

AbusesToilets wrote: »

Ireland's attacking shape has been so atrocious, he's had very little opportunity to showcase his worth. Folks are quick to declare his career over, due to his defensive failings. His comrade on the opposite wing would be an instructive case study. No one could accuse Earls of defensive soundness for the majority of his career. How many howlers has he had over the years, many far worse than Lowe's.

Earls has been an excellent winger defensively for years now. If Lowe can improve his defending to the level of Earls, he’ll be straight back in the team, but it remains to be seen.

honestbroker

sebdavis wrote: »

Something to watch out today. Cowan Dickie, I think it was mentioned on one of the podcast but a few mates have said it. Against France he jumped at players knee's twice. If he connects he ends a career. I was talking to friend and he mentioned he done the same v Sincklar when he cursed at the ref and got ban.

Cant find the France game but this is the Sincklar one
https://twitter.com/AndyGoode10/status/1347979702477217792

Glasgow tactics from a few years ago?

kilns

honestbroker wrote: »

What kind of reasoning is that? If applied to the whole team none of them would be picked.
Currently he is the best available for that position .

And that's the point he is no longer international standard and is yet our first choice

Former Former Former

sebdavis wrote: »

Yes

Hmmm. That DOES explain his stellar form at test level.

Lowe just isn't as good as he was hyped up to be. I think we can all agree on that now.

The Inbetween is mine

kilns wrote: »

And that's the point he is no longer international standard and is yet our first choice

And by your reasoning, none of our starting XV are international standard... that's quite funny

sebdavis

honestbroker wrote: »

Glasgow tactics from a few years ago?

Against Murray that time?

Chatting to a French fan on another group and he said he noticed in the England game but no replay, no TMO etc

irishbucsfan

I think you can tell the conversation has lost all sense when we're claiming we'd know more about an Irish international if he'd played for the Dragons.

The idea that this is because Lowe plays for Leinster is hilarious. Maybe if we were talking about an opposition like New Zealand there'd be some sense to this, but Scotland are very much not that.

honestbroker

kilns wrote: »

And that's the point he is no longer international standard and is yet our first choice

In your opinion he may not be, in many people's opinion most of the team is not of "international standard".

aloooof

kilns wrote: »

And that's the point he is no longer international standard and is yet our first choice

Earls was one of the best players on the pitch last week.

sebdavis

aloooof wrote: »

Earls was one of the best players on the pitch last week.

Yes he was, but why was he? for playing attacking rugby? beating players and scoring tries?

Or for hitting rucks and catching high balls?

P.S. this is not an attack on Earls but on the tactics

irishbucsfan

sebdavis wrote: »

Yes he was, but why was he? for playing attacking rugby? beating players and scoring tries?

Or for hitting rucks and catching high balls?

Catching high balls and making tackles after high balls that led to penalties.

You know, the main source of our points

Earls was excellent last weekend. If we had another of him on the other wing we'd have won by far more.

sebdavis

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Catching high balls and making tackles after high balls that led to penalties.

You know, the main source of our points

Earls was excellent last weekend. If we had another of him on the other wing we'd have won by far more.

I wasn't attacking Earls, but the tactics which I added.

If we don't want winger to play as winger then don't pick Lowe. If that is the style then D Kearney is more suited to it. Or the best player in the air is Conway. Stick them on

aloooof

sebdavis wrote: »

Yes he was, but why was he? for playing attacking rugby? beating players and scoring tries?

Or for hitting rucks and catching high balls?

P.S. this is not an attack on Earls but on the tactics

I see your point but he’s doing what the coaches are asking of him. I don’t think we can say that of Lowe.

irishbucsfan

sebdavis wrote: »

I wasn't attacking Earls, but the tactics which I added.

If we don't want winger to play as winger then don't pick Lowe. If that is the style then D Kearney is more suited to it. Or the best player in the air is Conway. Stick them on

Who says they didn't want Lowe to play that way? Ireland's first points came from Lowe breaking into the Scottish half and offloading back inside to Sexton.

They clearly wanted him to play as a winger there. But he proceeded to waste possession on a few occasions and the game turned against him. Primarily obviously he needs to be better at not being a liability when the opposition have the ball. I personally think he can do all of that.


You can attack the tactics all you want, but they produced 27 points, which is more than enough. Ireland's attacking tactics weren't the problem.

honestbroker

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Catching high balls and making tackles after high balls that led to penalties.

You know, the main source of our points

Earls was excellent last weekend. If we had another of him on the other wing we'd have won by far more.

Agreed it's what NZ wingers spend most of their time doing.

Amazing on social media how conversations drift.
This should should be about the return of one of the best 14s I have ever seen play for Ireland. A physical freak by Irish standards, big and fast with a nose for the try line. Went off the boil in the last 2 seasons, didn't cope well with the switch to fullback, it was a worthwhile experiment. Keenan is coming along nicely there. Stockdale is not perfect in defiance (very few wingers/fullbacks are). However if he can get within 75% of where he was a couple of seasons ago he will be an improvement on the limited journeyman who is definitely not of international standard that has managed to leak a try/game in he last few matches of consequence.

ionadnapokot

penybont exile wrote: »

IMO opinion Ringrose has not kicked on from his early promise (and has regressed since the WC)

He's become just another cog in what has become a fairly dysfunctional back line.

Do the Ireland backs look capable of scoring tries like France did against England (Penaud) or Wales did against Scotland (L Williams)?

What Andy Farrell and Mike Catt have managed to do to Ringrose is symptomatic of their outdated tactics, poor coaching and misuse of their best strike runner.

I’m delighted Lancaster has signed up for 2 more years so he can rehabilitate all the Leinster players in how to run, pass and catch the ball on their return from Ireland camp over the next 2 years.

Ringrose is World Class.

kilns

honestbroker wrote: »

In your opinion he may not be, in many people's opinion most of the team is not of "international standard".

Most the team you could make a case for starting in other teams but at the end of the day he is a 33 year old winger who has hasn't scored many tries in the last few years

Former Former Former

irishbucsfan wrote: »

I think you can tell the conversation has lost all sense when we're claiming we'd know more about an Irish international if he'd played for the Dragons.

The idea that this is because Lowe plays for Leinster is hilarious. Maybe if we were talking about an opposition like New Zealand there'd be some sense to this, but Scotland are very much not that.

I didn't say that. At all.

I was making the point that if a player is playing in a team that is vastly superior to their opponents, then the individuals in that team sometimes look better than they really are. Even at European level, Leinster are usually much better than the other guys.

And that this might explain why Lowe hasn't looked great at test level.

The Inbetween is mine

kilns wrote: »

Most the team you could make a case for starting in other teams but at the end of the day he is a 33 year old winger who has hasn't scored many tries in the last few years

Not at all what you said earlier...