Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

CMcsporty

ionadnapokot wrote: »

That win really filled me up with allot more hope.
Some points to sit alongside my optimism!

Reasons to be cautious for the next 6N:
1. England were plain bad. Discipline & Kicking not at 2020 level. 6-2 bench backfired when Farrell went off.
2. Farrell’s game plan & tactics are still ruck heavy, light on offloads and kicking away possession.
3. Catt’s tactics also look light on imagination (esp. from scrums) and poorly executed. – England game excluded!
4. Catt after France - “We’re happy with what we’re creating but then it’s the final pass or the final decision,” ALARM BELLS – See 3,5,6,7 & 13
5. Inability to pass in the previous games (Ringrose & Henshaw) & decision to kick (Ringrose) – See 4 above. Coach should take responsibility.
6. Inability to attack from turnovers and unstructured play. Coach should take responsibility.
7. Complete reliance on Lineout to score tries. Even against Italy. ALARM BELLS
8. Loose Head – Insufficient development & calibre behind Healy.
9. Murray –I need to watch the game again but he looked good. Couple of poor passes. Is Casey the solution? He should be given starting roles in Nov.
10. Sexton – A great day for him v England. I was truly happy for him to exorcise a few ghosts. Starting role & captaincy has to go to others in Nov. (Everything crossed for Carbery)
11. Left wing – How can this be a problem position? Defensive frailties Lowe/Stockdale have to be improved. If Easterby cant should the system change? Or pick different players.
12. Easterby – In 2018 Ireland still looked weak on the fringes. Even before that Les Kiss system was routinely exposed out wide.
13. Ringrose is the best 13. Aki/Henshaw played excellent but can Catt get the best from Ringrose? He’s not been used as a strike runner, he’s not passing and he’s kicking away the ball.
14. Earls - Exceptional against England. But like Sexton the starting role has to go to others in Nov. (Everything crossed for Baloucane)
15. Keenan –The Garryowen is part of our DNA his take at the weekend was world class. He looks good defensively but can he bring more in attack? I still have hope for Larmour & would like to see Lowry permanently at FB for Ulster. Does Farrell just stick with Keenan?

Henshaw montage time!
https://twitter.com/IrishRugby/status/1374017545653604354?s=20

Eod100

https://twitter.com/alexspinkmirror/status/1374419359985065997?s=19

awec

The refereeing and citing of head related accidents / tackles / whatever is a complete joke. As I said a few weeks ago after another game that I won't go into now, it is now a total lottery.

Sometimes yellow, sometimes not.
Somtimes a red, sometimes not.
Sometimes a citing, sometimes not.
When you get cited, the number of weeks are drawn out of a hat.

.ak

4 weeks is insane for that. Did he fight it or something?

The Inbetween is mine

.ak wrote: »

4 weeks is insane for that. Did he fight it or something?

No, could have been 6 weeks.. mitigation could have been 3 but his previous bad record was taken into account so he got a 4 game ban from my reading of it

Former Former Former

.ak wrote: »

4 weeks is insane for that. Did he fight it or something?

(previously posted on Connacht thread) but that was the absolute minimum he could have received, given the current guidelines and his almost identical red 18 months ago.

There was no intent but you could see that Vunipola was absolutely out for the count after the impact. He completely crumpled into a heap. Intent or not, these things need to be punished. The panel acknowledged that it was only a couple of inches too high but that was enough.

Bazzo

It's in line with all the other citings: 6 weeks entry reduced by 50% if no previous. His (only) previous red card was also a high shot so he couldn't get the max 50% reduction.

The trick is to win the refereeing lotto and not get a red card. Then you don't get cited and don't get any ban. Simples.

realhorrorshow

Bazzo wrote: »

It's in line with all the other citings: 6 weeks entry reduced by 50% if no previous. His (only) previous red card was also a high shot so he couldn't get the max 50% reduction.

The trick is to win the refereeing lotto and not get a red card. Then you don't get cited and don't get any ban. Simples.

The trick is to tackle properly.

Billy Vunipola did not dip suddenly. Bundee needs to adapt to the ball carriers body position and recognise situations in which he can not attempt an upright shoulder to chest tackle. It would be extremely easy to either approach the tackle from an angle, or target the legs. This idea that if a ball carrier runs with his head down you have no choice but to knock them unconscious is absolute nonsense.

ersatz

realhorrorshow wrote: »

The trick is to tackle properly.

Billy Vunipola did not dip suddenly. Bundee needs to adapt to the ball carriers body position and recognise situations in which he can not attempt an upright shoulder to chest tackle. It would be extremely easy to either approach the tackle from an angle, or target the legs. This idea that if a ball carrier runs with his head down you have no choice but to knock them unconscious is absolute nonsense.

+1. Bundee needs to get it right by changing his technique/stance, otherwise this will keep happening. I don't see it as a refereeing lottery, officials do miss some but most head contact is picked up and carded. Soon enough this stuff will become much rarer in the game in the same way as taking out players in the air has become more rare. No cards for that this tournament because players and coaches have learned their lessons.

Bazzo

realhorrorshow wrote: »

The trick is to tackle properly.

Billy Vunipola did not dip suddenly. Bundee needs to adapt to the ball carriers body position and recognise situations in which he can not attempt an upright shoulder to chest tackle. It would be extremely easy to either approach the tackle from an angle, or target the legs. This idea that if a ball carrier runs with his head down you have no choice but to knock them unconscious is absolute nonsense.

I didn't make any comment on the legality of the tackle which was 100% correctly punished to the directives, and appropriately banned. I was making a glib comment about the absolute lottery the refereeing and citing on it has been.

Bazzo

ersatz wrote: »

. I don't see it as a refereeing lottery, officials do miss some but most head contact is picked up and carded.

I haven't had as much time to watch rugby as I would normally like recently, so mainly just Connacht and Ireland and the other odd six nations match, but in the last few weeks alone we've seen Niall Murray being smashed in the head in a last gasp tackle during a Connacht match not being picked up and not cited, Ian Madigan being smashed in the head being yellow carded and not cited, Scarlets prop on Monday forearming John Porch directly to the chin with force and having the TMO talk the ref down to a yellow with no subsequent citing, and Genge elbowing sexton in the head and Sexton being told it'd be checked after the game with nothing more coming of it. The reffing and citing has been all over the place.

arsebiscuits1

https://www.the42.ie/ireland-2021-six-nations-review-5388929-Mar2021/

A typically insightful article by MK.

Very little in stats between Herring and Kelleher from touch which is interesting. Herring 90% from 37 throws, Kelleher 88% from 17. Both very, very, good returns.

The article goes and points out a lot of what POC has brought in.

I think it's a fair assumption to say his impact has been instant and resoundingly positive.

I said I'd reserve judgement when he was appointed until he's had a chance to prove himself. And I gotta say he was a shrewd hire.

And people said there was a "bang of Robbie Keane off the appointment" :pac:

awec

I wasn't impressed with the O'Connell appointment at the time either but he's proven me wrong for sure.

ersatz

Bazzo wrote: »

I haven't had as much time to watch rugby as I would normally like recently, so mainly just Connacht and Ireland and the other odd six nations match, but in the last few weeks alone we've seen Niall Murray being smashed in the head in a last gasp tackle during a Connacht match not being picked up and not cited, Ian Madigan being smashed in the head being yellow carded and not cited, Scarlets prop on Monday forearming John Porch directly to the chin with force and having the TMO talk the ref down to a yellow with no subsequent citing, and Genge elbowing sexton in the head and Sexton being told it'd be checked after the game with nothing more coming of it. The reffing and citing has been all over the place.

Officials do miss some and there is inconsistency but two of your examples here were carded! I'm not sure what the point you're making is. It's only for a couple of seasons that previously innocuous head contact is being red carded and the incidence of it happening has already been reduced. Yes, it's still happening but quite quickly it will disappear as a regular incident in rugby in the way spear tackles and taking players out in the air has largely disappeared because of a zero tolerance policy being implemented. Neither of them disappeared from one day to the next and there was plenty of ink spilled on the inconsistent application of the laws but that is how the game works, unfortunately.

Genge's behaviour was disgraceful and fully deserving of a red/ban but it was more akin to gouging than the kind of head shots that result in concussions.

Brief_Lives

bayern wrote: »

he is a hugely unproven forwards coach.

Now proven..

Bazzo

ersatz wrote: »

Officials do miss some and there is inconsistency but two of your examples here were carded! I'm not sure what the point you're making is. It's only for a couple of seasons that previously innocuous head contact is being red carded and the incidence of it happening has already been reduced. Yes, it's still happening but quite quickly it will disappear as a regular incident in rugby in the way spear tackles and taking players out in the air has largely disappeared because of a zero tolerance policy being implemented. Neither of them disappeared from one day to the next and there was plenty of ink spilled on the inconsistent application of the laws but that is how the game works, unfortunately.

Genge's behaviour was disgraceful and fully deserving of a red/ban but it was more akin to gouging than the kind of head shots that result in concussions.

Yes carded, but not (correctly)following the directives in the same manner as almost identical incidents: ie. Inconsistent, which was my whole point. We've seen red cards absolutely correctly shown to the directives for incidents nearly identical to the Madigan and Porch ones, and then subsequently bans received at the citing.

awec

ersatz wrote: »

Officials do miss some and there is inconsistency but two of your examples here were carded! I'm not sure what the point you're making is. It's only for a couple of seasons that previously innocuous head contact is being red carded and the incidence of it happening has already been reduced. Yes, it's still happening but quite quickly it will disappear as a regular incident in rugby in the way spear tackles and taking players out in the air has largely disappeared because of a zero tolerance policy being implemented. Neither of them disappeared from one day to the next and there was plenty of ink spilled on the inconsistent application of the laws but that is how the game works, unfortunately.

Genge's behaviour was disgraceful and fully deserving of a red/ban but it was more akin to gouging than the kind of head shots that result in concussions.

It was far more dangerous than the incident that got Andrew Warwick red carded and subsequently banned a few weeks ago.

Accidental contact with the head = red and ban. Deliberate contact with the head of a prone player with your elbow / arm = no card, no ban. It doesn't many any sense.

ersatz

awec wrote: »

It was far more dangerous than the incident that got Andrew Warwick red carded and subsequently banned a few weeks ago.

Accidental contact with the head = red and ban. Deliberate contact with the head of a prone player with your elbow / arm = no card, no ban. It doesn't many any sense.

I fully agree, it should have been a red card/ban. But it is a different kind of offence to a shoulder or forearm to the head at speed in a tackle which can be unintentional. There's nothing unintentional or incidental about Genge's behaviour.

Dubinusa

After reviewing all of the matches, bar the Italy one I have noticed a few things.
Against Wales, we played with width at time and didn't look bad. Ringrose was particularly good making breaks and 1/2 breaks. Our line speed was decent too. I think we tried to do too much with the ball in hand and ultimately, bad decisions haunted us. The Burns kick crossfield to Larmour was one, the Sexton/ Ringrose offload was another. Our discipline was poor also, at least at crucial times. Overall, with 14 men we played pretty well. In this match, Sexton was off the boil and I though Murray was average.

Against France, we were lateral. Easy to defend and just going side to side. We looked guileless and flat. France when they did up the level, cut through us. It was the most disappointing match for us, imo.

Scotland was a mix. Lots of errors and sloppy play. The forwards were great and our line out was insane. Discipline at key times was an issue. The lads looked like they were apprehensive. Sexton played a blinder and was probably the winning of the match. Overall, our pack were at their best and I thought got on top of Scotland.

England was our best performance in years. The half backs were superb as was the pack. We flustered England up front and won a lot of penalties. It was reminiscent of a Schmidt type team effort. The forwards and the backs gelled and it was a full team effort.


So! A very mixed tournament. Lots to be positive for and some negatives.

eagle eye

I just don't get it, arms out to tackle and no intent. He shouldn't get a ban at all imo.

thomond2006

eagle eye wrote: »

I just don't get it, arms out to tackle and no intent. He shouldn't get a ban at all imo.

It's an attempt to remove contact to the head from the game as much as possible. There has been and will continue to be incidents that look harsh, as they were not considered red card offences a few years ago.

https://www.world.rugby/the-game/laws/guidelines/1

Revised measures here: https://rugbyreferee.net/2021/03/11/new-head-contact-process-unveiled-by-world-rugby/

Former Former Former

eagle eye wrote: »

I just don't get it, arms out to tackle and no intent. He shouldn't get a ban at all imo.

Billy Vunipola was absolutely poleaxed, had to go off for a HIA and didn't return IIRC. That's why he got a ban; we can't continue exposing players to lifelong consequences for their health.

sydthebeat

eagle eye wrote: »

I just don't get it, arms out to tackle and no intent. He shouldn't get a ban at all imo.

intent doesnt come into it, nor should it... its impossible to quantify and shouldnt absolve dangerous play.

the intent should always be make a legal tackle....

eagle eye

sydthebeat wrote:

intent doesnt come into it, nor should it... its impossible to quantify and shouldnt absolve dangerous play.

the intent should always be make a legal tackle....

The intent was to make a legal tackle imo, it looked accidental to me.

sydthebeat

eagle eye wrote: »

The intent was to make a legal tackle imo, it looked accidental to me.

intent cant be quantified.. you have no idea what the intent was.

eagle eye

sydthebeat wrote:

intent cant be quantified.. you have no idea what the intent was.

He looked like he was trying to make a tackle with his arms and then they ran into each other. I'd say Vunipola was almost as much to blame for it as Aki.

sydthebeat

eagle eye wrote: »

He looked like he was trying to make a tackle with his arms and then they ran into each other. I'd say Vunipola was almost as much to blame for it as Aki.

aki never attempted to bend his back or make a low tackle.

he bent his knees, straightened his back and drove upwards vunipolas head... wanting to make a dominant hit.

pretty much a text book example of the type of tackle they want to rid the game of... and pretty much text book example of the type of tackles that have consistently been getting red cards over the last 2 years.

errlloyd

Tell you what though. He did REALLY stop him.

Yeah_Right

A few random thoughts on last weekend's match. Great performance by Ireland. What I think we've all been waiting for this year but were starting to doubt they had it in them.

Forward pack was outstanding. Furlong is back to his best. Very happy with how the pack is coming along.

Still don't think POM makes the 23 if everyone is fit. His best contribution was winding Itoje up. Ireland were awarded a kickable penalty in the 2nd half, and POM congratulated one of the English players (I think it was Hill) with a pat on the back. That pissed off Itoje which made me chuckle.

The Stockdale screw up for the England try, I think he went for the intercept. He was caught in a no win situation like Lowe was previously but he took the worst option.

I'm still not convinced that Murray is the best choice at halfback. It was the best he has played in 2 years but I don't think it was better than the other options available. Sexton was fantastic. Showed why he is still first choice. Same with Healy. Yes they are both getting old and arent the players they once were but their replacements are still some way behind them. Kilcoyne is good but he is only a year younger.

Best performance I've seen from Henshaw. It might be harsh to say he is finally living up to the hype but that's the level he should be at. Same with Beirne and Henderson.

And finally, Furlong. I have to mention him again. Holy ****!!

TRC10

Yeah_Right wrote: »

Best performance I've seen from Henshaw. It might be harsh to say he is finally living up to the hype but that's the level he should be at. Same with Beirne and Henderson.

It seems to have gone under the radar a bit, but Henshaw has been absolutely outstanding for the last year now. Ever since he came in for Ringrose for the Wales game last year. He was brilliant in that game, then our best player v England the week after.

I think early in his Ireland career he bulked up to over 100kg, trying to be a Jamie Roberts type 12. But after the World Cup, he clearly slimmed down to about 90-95kg and he's now at a much leaner natural looking weight. And it's really benefited his game. He's faster, more agile, more effective in the carry and his defence is strong as ever.