Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

bilston

Good to see Harry Byrne starting in Europe tomorrow. Hope he goes well as it will be one less reason not to pick him in the Ireland squad

gally74

Bazzo wrote: »

Eh, no, they didn't over play Porter because they were afraid of subbing him for or starting Bealham. In the only match where Bealham was sub tighthead (Wales) he came on at 64', a very normal time for a trusted sub tighthead to come on.

In the second match (England) he came on at loosehead for Healy at 64' and against Georgia he started at loosehead. He wasn't in the squad for Scotland.



Yes, there's no way Ireland could beat a top team like England, France or possibly New Zealand with Bealham in the team.

Tight head is such a strange position to fixate on as a weakness in the current Ireland team.

That's funny because finlay finished the game out in Chicago at tight head.....


This forum is full of provinces bias

Bazzo

gally74 wrote: »

That's funny because finlay finished the game out in Chicago at tight head.....


This forum is full of provinces bias

Not sure if that's aimed at me? That's the exact point I was (sarcastically) making. He's also played in teams that beat Australia and South Africa iirc.

TRC10

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Yeah he’s grand in an emergency, but grand isn’t good enough. That’s my point.

This autumn window was an emergency (by definition as he was the main backup). The result was they played Porter in every game and left him on for as long as possible to avoid having to play Bealham too much. If you don’t see why that’s a problem, then I don’t know what to tell you.

Contrast that with the situation where there’s genuine competition for the starting place and the sub is about as good as the starter. (Leavy and VDF or Luke McGrath and JGP at Leinster, or Healy and Jack McGrath at Leinster and Ireland. When Healy and McGrath were trading places, it was great when the sub came on because a fresh McGrath was better than a tired Healy. But they play Bealham because they have to rest Porter for the next game, not because he’s going to improve the situation right now.

Bealham is grand, and grand is good enough to be beaten by top teams. That’s a problem.

This is ridiculous. At TH we have 2 world class players (Furlong and Porter), and a perfectly good third choice who is a solid operator with excellent hands and exceptional workrate (Bealham). How the hell is this an issue?!

In a addition, we have O'Toole (22) who would be in the squad but for an injury who has been highly rated for a long time, and Aungier (22) who played an absolute blinder off the bench v Racing away.

Name me a tier 1 nation who has better depth at TH than us.

Podge_irl

Bealham is also nominally capable of covering both sides of the scrum and I suspect is in this position partly with an eye towards RWC squad cover.

It's an absolutely grand situation. Porter/Furlong is one of the best combinations out there.

Former Former Former

I think everyone agrees with each other here? That Bealham is grand squad depth but no more.

If we get to a point of having a third genuine test class tight head behind Furlong and Porter, that will be better than we have ever managed in our history.

I don't see Bealham going to the next RWC but he's doing a fine job of what is being asked of him.

TRC10

Former Former Former wrote: »

I think everyone agrees with each other here? That Bealham is grand squad depth but no more.

If we get to a point of having a third genuine test class tight head behind Furlong and Porter, that will be better than we have ever managed in our history.

I don't see Bealham going to the next RWC but he's doing a fine job of what is being asked of him.

We all agree on that, but the OP was suggesting that it's an issue that we dont have 3 world class tightheads.

irishbucsfan

Former Former Former wrote: »

I think everyone agrees with each other here? That Bealham is grand squad depth but no more.

If we get to a point of having a third genuine test class tight head behind Furlong and Porter, that will be better than we have ever managed in our history.

I don't see Bealham going to the next RWC but he's doing a fine job of what is being asked of him.

This is madness (as in I agree with you)

If you’re a young international class tighthead and there are two ahead of you and you’re not going to get past them, the very first thing you and your agent should do us look abroad. We’re never going to have that edit - again, we possibly had it with Marty Moore?

The Lost Sheep

6 Nations match officials confirmed
Joy Neville, Frank Murphy and Andy Brace are only irish officials involved.
Neville is TMO for England v Scotland and England v Italy
Andy Brace refs England v Scotland and is AR with Frank Murphy for Wales England
Frank Murphy TMO for Italy Wales

For our games
Wales: Ref is Wayne Barnes with Luke Pearce and Alex Ruiz the assistants and the TMO is Tom Foley

France: Ref is Luke Pearce with his assistants Wayne Barnes and Christophe Ridley while Tom Foley is again TMO

Italy: Ref is Mathieu Raynal and Mike Adamson and Craig Evans are assistants and Romain Poite is TMO

Scotland: Ref Romain Poite and Assistants are Mathieu Raynal and Andrea Piardi while TMO is Alex Ruiz

England: Ref Mathieu Raynal with Pascal Gauzere and Alex Ruiz on the line with Poite TMO

Louis Friend

I think he’s gotta go with this:

Healy Kelleher Furlong
Henderson Ryan
Stander Dorris Leavy
Murray
Sexton
Stockdale
Henshaw
Ringrose
Conway
Larmour

bilston

Louis Friend wrote: »

I think he’s gotta go with this:

Healy Kelleher Furlong
Henderson Ryan
Stander Dorris Leavy
Murray
Sexton
Stockdale
Henshaw
Ringrose
Conway
Larmour

Agree with the pack

Reluctantly agree with the half backs

Centres are our best combination, but are hardly ever fit at the same time

Back three could be anything really.

Thrashssacre

Lowe on the left Keenan on the right and larmour fullback I reckon

thomond2006

Kilcoyne is back available and if he can rediscover his previous form then he should be pushing for a spot.

That does raise the question whether you could have a 32 year old Kilcoyne and a 33 year old Healy in the same 23, in the medium term.

molloyjh

A 23 I'd love to see get a good run:

Healy Kelleher Furlong
Henderson Ryan
Stander Doris POM

Murray Sexton
Henshaw Ringrose
Lowe Stockdale Larmour

Herring, Kilcoyne , Porter, Baird, VDF, JGP, Carbery, Conway

Loosehead is an issue. As Thomond said above, having 2 guys at the tail end of their careers in the 23 isnt great. It'll be interesting to see how EOS and Whycherley go over the next while. And Milne looks like he has some potential.

We could also do with another couple of options at hooker. Sheehan looks good. Are there any other young prospects worth talking about at this stage elsewhere?

Otherwise the pack looks good. A couple of options at 9 as well as in the centre (specifically a like for like for Ringrose would be nice). I think Stockdale at 15 is something worth sticking with. He needs time to bed down some of the basics but the pay off could he worth it. I think that back 3 could really be something to get excited about.

bilston

Deleted User wrote: »

Get everyone fit and win that game in Cardiff and who knows,.momentum counts for a lot in the 6Ns.

rodge123

[Deleted User] wrote: »

6 day turnaround away to Scotland and then home to England ain’t great. England seem to be only ones that don’t have any 6 day turn around.

AbusesToilets

molloyjh wrote: »

A 23 I'd love to see get a good run:

Healy Kelleher Furlong
Henderson Ryan
Stander Doris POM

Murray Sexton
Henshaw Ringrose
Lowe Stockdale Larmour

Herring, Kilcoyne , Porter, Baird, VDF, JGP, Carbery, Conway

Loosehead is an issue. As Thomond said above, having 2 guys at the tail end of their careers in the 23 isnt great. It'll be interesting to see how EOS and Whycherley go over the next while. And Milne looks like he has some potential.

We could also do with another couple of options at hooker. Sheehan looks good. Are there any other young prospects worth talking about at this stage elsewhere?

Otherwise the pack looks good. A couple of options at 9 as well as in the centre (specifically a like for like for Ringrose would be nice). I think Stockdale at 15 is something worth sticking with. He needs time to bed down some of the basics but the pay off could he worth it. I think that back 3 could really be something to get excited about.

That team is basically the team that's been losing for the past 2 seasons. What about it would fill you with excitement? Genuinely puzzled.

Richie_Rich89

I'm not convinced by Healy, the second row pairing of Henderson and Ryan (something a bit missing between them), the centres (no creativity or running off each other from Henshaw and Ringrose), and Larmour at 15.

Healy mustered a good performance in Paris on the occasion of his 100th cap, scrummaging strongly and coming up with a try, but he's been largely very average for some time now. He could soldier on for another season or maybe two, but I don't really see the point if they can find someone else who can hold his own in the scrum. Get O'Sullivan, Dooley and Wycherley - players on an upward trajectory - into camp to fight for the jersey.

Ryan has supposedly got heavier over the past year, but if anything he looks underpowered. He's probably been struggling for form for the guts of a year now - maybe longer even. The impact he was having in games in 2018 seems like a distant memory. He could struggle to make the Lions as things stand. Maybe Gatland will pick him anyway and back him to refind his mojo. Who knows? Henderson has been inconsistent for ages. Should he have stuck to playing 6 years ago?

The centres seem to have been uninspiring since O'Driscoll left. I'd like to see something different, whether that's Thomas Farrell or Jimmy O'Brien or Stewart Moore at 13 outside Henshaw or Aki, or Henshaw moving out to 13 with Frawley at 12.

Larmour is a bit of a headless chicken for 15. I think it'd be better to consider him on the left wing as a Jack-in-the-box type player - get the ball out to him and see if he can come up with something. Wind him up and let him go, sort of thing. Simply put, O'Brien and Keenan look like better, more natural fullbacks who better understand how to play the position to the advantage of their teammates.

I really think they're missing a trick by not making more use of Cooney. His heads up playing style would be perfect for when the game breaks up in the last half hour or 20 minutes.

1. Eric O'Sullivan
2. Rob Herring
3. Tadhg Furlong/Andrew Porter
4. Quinn Roux
5. Devin Toner
6. Christiaan Johan Stander
7. Dan Leavy/Will Connors
8. Caelan Doris
9. Conor Murray
10. Jonathan Sexton
11. Jacob Stockdale
12. Ciarán Frawley
13. Robbie Henshaw
14. Hugo Keenan
15. Jimmy O'Brien

16. Ronan Kelleher
17. Peter Dooley
18. Andrew Porter/Tom O'Toole
19. Ryan Baird
20. Peter O'Mahony
21. John Cooney
22. Harry Byrne
23. Shane Daly

Dubinusa

Toner? He's just about done.

Nigzcurran

No ringrose in the squad?? Did you bang your head earlier or what’s the story?

clsmooth

Spot whose not doing dry January this year

aloooof

No New Years Resolution, Richie?

TRC10

I've a strong feeling Sextons body is going to give in before somebody takes the jersey from him. In his last 3 games (Wales, Scotland and Connacht) hes been forced off with an injury. Twice before half time.

I thinks it's very likely we'll see a changing of the guard in the coming 6 nations, be it by choice or enforced.

Dubinusa

Agreed! He just doesn't seem to make it through the matches anymore. I reckon he will probably play his final 6nations this year.
I think Burns is worth a look this 6nations. It's not that Sexton has been great recently.

Louis Friend

We’ve just got to get Joey C back...

dublin49

Carty was excellent tonight,how is he so far down the pecking order.I would imagine lots would start Harry Byrne before him which IMO would be a mistake.He is consistently excellent for Connacht and may not have made the most of chances thus far but on tonight's showing he is as good as anyone else currently vying for num 10.

Former Former Former

dublin49 wrote: »

Carty was excellent tonight,how is he so far down the pecking order.I would imagine lots would start Harry Byrne before him which IMO would be a mistake.He is consistently excellent for Connacht and may not have made the most of chances thus far but on tonight's showing he is as good as anyone else currently vying for num 10.

Last night's game isn't particularly relevant tbh.

I don't think Carty is that far off the squad, there's no stand-out candidate behind Sexton so it could be any two from Burns, Byrne X 2 or Carty. (leaving Carbery out, of course)

But equally Carty did have a good run with the national team in 2019 and couldn't capitalise so I don't think he's been badly treated.

At least with Harry Byrne you have a 21 year old who could get much better. Carty is probably as good now as he's ever going to be.

Louis Friend

Let’s not completely dismiss Ian Madigan either.

And Joey if he can make it back. Joey’s probably still the clear No 2.

Buer

Louis Friend wrote: »

Let’s not completely dismiss Ian Madigan either.

Lets.