Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

thomond2006

As of now, I think Zebo is someone that Farrell and Catt view as someone who can provide competition for Keenan. Keenan has been the find of the season in green but those next in line are either primarily wingers or players with little experience. Zebo can provide a bridge option in camp until Ireland unearth/develop a younger option at 15.

I say "can provide" and not "will provide" as he will need to break into the Munster back three first.

sebdavis

Former Former Former wrote: »

Maybe everyone "knew" it but it had not been announced.

I honestly don't see how you can see it as anything other than very disrespectful to Munster. He was still a player, his focus should have been on Munster. He just didn't give a shyte about you. He couldn't have waited another week?

Maybe it on its own isn't a big deal but it's part of a long pattern. The guy has no loyalty to anyone but Simon Zebo. Don't fool yourselves that he's coming back out of love for Munster.

Most of the Munster fans I have seen are overjoyed he is returning. So bonus for them;

jacothelad

Former Former Former wrote: »

Ah it was just a bit of bantz, some sort of stupid emoji when Ireland were losing.

Doubt anyone in the Ireland camp lost any sleep over it but it didn't reflect well on him.

He has made some very poor choices like that over the years. He's his own worst enemy tbh.

Yes, his movie career wasn't exactly supportive of the life style apparently demanded of Irish players by the Bank of Ireland. Fortunately the social media behaviour police missed him and Murray.

aloooof

sydthebeat wrote: »

hes not as bad as some people make out and not as good as others make out. the truth is somewhere in the middle.

I wonder could we ask the mods to add that as a sticky...

Former Former Former

thomond2006 wrote: »

I'm a bit lost. Maybe there's something here I'm not getting, at all.

An interview published during the week of the game is a bit crass, but it's hardly a hanging offence.

It's not a hanging offence. It's just more evidence of a very definite pattern.

I don't like the guy, in case that wasn't very obvious, so maybe I'm taking more of an interest than I should. Things like this, his constant need to be in the media, his naked self-interest and his completely disingenuous utterings at every juncture, that's the reason I don't like him. He's not a team player and three seasons at Racing of all places is very unlikely to have changed that.

He's a good rugby player but he's not nearly good enough to justify all the other stuff.

TomsOnTheRoof

It's going to be some gallery when he ends up as the starting left winger for Ireland. The collective outrage will keep me warm for the winter to come.

Teferi

The lads exclusively talking about 'outrage' over the last few pages - What's the point? Many and varied people have given many and varied replies showing evidence of how Zebo has made himself a divisive character. Plenty of you are simply not engaging with any of those many and varied replies and are simply shouting 'outrage' into the crowd. It would make you wonder what the objective is.

thomond2006

Teferi wrote: »

The lads exclusively talking about 'outrage' over the last few pages - What's the point? Many and varied people have given many and varied replies showing evidence of how Zebo has made himself a divisive character. Plenty of you are simply not engaging with any of those many and varied replies and are simply shouting 'outrage' into the crowd. It would make you wonder what the objective is.

Saying you never want him to wear green again is hardly objective and is just the other side of Zeborage.

Teferi

thomond2006 wrote: »

Saying you never want him to wear green again is hardly objective.

It's not an argument of objectivity - I am clearly biased against Zebo and have had no interest in hiding that fact. It's about bad faith actors not engaging with the arguments put forth.

thomond2006

Teferi wrote: »

It's not an argument of objectivity - I am clearly biased against Zebo and have had no interest in hiding that fact. It's about bad faith actors not engaging with the arguments put forth.

Well you can hardly blame posters for not bothering to engage. The Zebo talk is tiresome.

Teferi

thomond2006 wrote: »

Well you can hardly blame posters for not bothering to engage. The Zebo talk is tiresome.

But they are engaging - just not with the arguments put forth. They're simply shouting 'outrage' instead.

hahashake

Zebo is a bit like SBW in that you aren't just investing in a player, you are investing in all the positive and negative chat that surrounds him. Felt dirty saying it but it's true.

aloooof

Teferi wrote: »

The lads exclusively talking about 'outrage' over the last few pages - What's the point? Many and varied people have given many and varied replies showing evidence of how Zebo has made himself a divisive character. Plenty of you are simply not engaging with any of those many and varied replies and are simply shouting 'outrage' into the crowd. It would make you wonder what the objective is.

I've only seen one poster with the "outrage" comment, no? I think a majority are arguing in good faith.

Imo, it's pretty clear Zebo is a divisive character. Today alone, we've had one poster describing his tweets as "disgusting" and another saying they fully expect him to be picked for the Lions. I wouldn't agree with either position tbh; he seems to attract these pretty excessive opinions from both his detractors and his supporters.

phog

I want to be outraged, please someone post something I can be outraged with, it's my turn now, please, pretty please.

Louis Friend

His arrogance is unbelievable. A squad player at best giving Joe Schmidt grief. You’d swear he was Jonah Lomu given the amount of hot air that surrounds him.

Squidgy Black

phog wrote: »

I want to be outraged, please someone post something I can be outraged with, it's my turn now, please, pretty please.

The IRFU moved Carbery from Leinster to Munster and then purposefully injured him for the RWC in an attempt to leave him perma-crocked all just to execute their master plan of having Harry Byrne become our lord and saviour.

Teferi

aloooof wrote: »

I've only seen one poster with the "outrage" comment, no? I think a majority are arguing in good faith.

It's clearly more than one poster.

aloooof wrote: »

Imo, it's pretty clear Zebo is a divisive character. Today alone, we've had one poster describing his tweets as "disgusting" and another saying they fully expect him to be picked for the Lions. I wouldn't agree with either position tbh; he seems to attract these pretty excessive opinions from both his detractors and his supporters.

You've pointed out two extremes there. What about the many and varied high quality posts?

aloooof

Teferi wrote: »

It's clearly more than one poster.



You've pointed out two extremes there. What about the many and varied high quality posts?

That's exactly my point tho; that the majority have been arguing in good faith, whereas a minority are arguing on the extremes. Which manifests as "outrage" from his defenders and "disgusting" from his detractors.

Syd nailed it; the truth is often somewhere in the middle.

The Inbetween is mine

aloooof wrote: »

That's exactly my point tho; that the majority have been arguing in good faith, whereas a minority are arguing on the extremes. Which manifests as "outrage" from his defenders and "disgusting" from his detractors.

Syd nailed it; the truth is often somewhere in the middle.

Tbf.... there is a huge disparity between the Uber-Praise and muck slinging posts in this forum... I'll let you figure out which is which

thegreycity

Squidgy Black wrote: »

The IRFU moved Carbery from Leinster to Munster and then purposefully injured him for the RWC in an attempt to leave him perma-crocked all just to execute their master plan of having Harry Byrne become our lord and saviour.

Actually it’s all designed to falsely build Harry Byrne up only to have him fail to deliver on his hype so that in the chaos they can finally bring back the true golden prince of rugby: Ian Madigan.

Nucifora is the Petyr Baelish of rugby.

molloyjh

aloooof wrote: »

Syd nailed it; the truth is often somewhere in the middle.

Oi, Syd, that's my shtick. Get your own! :pac:

Former Former Former

The Inbetween is mine wrote: »

Tbf.... there is a huge disparity between the Uber-Praise and muck slinging posts in this forum... I'll let you figure out which is which

Umm, isn't there always a huge disparity between praise and muck-slinging?

clsmooth

I quite like Zebo. Great distributer, has a lovely passing game. Big unit who can shift. Loved his disallowed try for Ireland against Romania at RWC2015. Defensive game can be questionable though.

I feel his absence has made him a better player in the eyes of many. Just like Madigan before him (no where near the Irish squad now he’s back in Ireland). Same story with someone like Jackson. If Zebo can get back to 2017 levels he’s in the mix of the Irish 23. Does he have the desire and is he capable of it physically at this stage of his career? Only time will tell. I certainly hope he does though.

ersatz

hahashake wrote: »

Zebo is a bit like SBW in that you aren't just investing in a player, you are investing in all the positive and negative chat that surrounds him. Felt dirty saying it but it's true.

Zebo is probably the only money rugby player in Ireland. Sexton is famous in rugby circles along with a few others in the team, but Zebo is known by people outside the game because of his personality, his celebrity and his controversy, particularly by kids and even after he has been away for a few years.

The rugby world is pretty boring except for the games, the players are easily as colourless as soccer players, few if any ever display any personality except as far as it relates to the way the play and their press amounts to canned soundbites and tweets about fitness regimes and food, or plugs for charities and sponsors. Zebo may be a lazy fat b******d by he is likely to say or do something outrageous that spills plenty of ink.

He probably sells jerseys but otherwise I'm not sure what his value to the IRFU/Munster is. I personally haven't been that impressed with him at Racing, he's a great finisher but I think I see what JS saw, a guy who walks a lot and sometimes doesn't show up where he might/should. But overall I'd say he gets more attention for the game and Munster than anyone else.

Louis Friend

ersatz wrote: »

Zebo is probably the only money rugby player in Ireland. Sexton is famous in rugby circles along with a few others in the team, but Zebo is known by people outside the game because of his personality, his celebrity and his controversy, particularly by kids and even after he has been away for a few years.

The rugby world is pretty boring except for the games, the players are easily as colourless as soccer players, few if any ever display any personality except as far as it relates to the way the play and their press amounts to canned soundbites and tweets about fitness regimes and food, or plugs for charities and sponsors. Zebo may be a lazy fat b******d by he is likely to say or do something outrageous that spills plenty of ink.

He probably sells jerseys but otherwise I'm not sure what his value to the IRFU/Munster is. I personally haven't been that impressed with him at Racing, he's a great finisher but I think I see what JS saw, a guy who walks a lot and sometimes doesn't show up where he might/should. But overall I'd say he gets more attention for the game and Munster than anyone else.

None of this is true. Literally none of it.

sebdavis

ersatz wrote: »

Zebo is probably the only money rugby player in Ireland. Sexton is famous in rugby circles along with a few others in the team, but Zebo is known by people outside the game because of his personality, his celebrity and his controversy, particularly by kids and even after he has been away for a few years.

The rugby world is pretty boring except for the games, the players are easily as colourless as soccer players, few if any ever display any personality except as far as it relates to the way the play and their press amounts to canned soundbites and tweets about fitness regimes and food, or plugs for charities and sponsors. Zebo may be a lazy fat b******d by he is likely to say or do something outrageous that spills plenty of ink.

He probably sells jerseys but otherwise I'm not sure what his value to the IRFU/Munster is. I personally haven't been that impressed with him at Racing, he's a great finisher but I think I see what JS saw, a guy who walks a lot and sometimes doesn't show up where he might/should. But overall I'd say he gets more attention for the game and Munster than anyone else.

I guess you haven't invested in an Ireland jersey with Zebo on the back to celebrate his return

sprucemoose

ersatz wrote: »

I personally haven't been that impressed with him at Racing, he's a great finisher but I think I see what JS saw, a guy who walks a lot and sometimes doesn't show up where he might/should.

well to just take the last H cup final as an example, he was generally regarded as being racings most creative player and set up two(i think) of their tries so....

Louis Friend wrote: »

His arrogance is unbelievable. A squad player at best giving Joe Schmidt grief.

in fairness that was part of the problem in itself, he deserved to be more than just a squad player and he was regularly dropped by JS even when playing great (Scotland 2015, RWC 2015 for example) with some of the wingers picked ahead of him simply being far less talented but hard-working (trimble, mcfadden, the kearneys to an extent) so i could understand his frustration.

mfceiling

sprucemoose wrote: »

in fairness that was part of the problem in itself, he deserved to be more than just a squad player and he was regularly dropped by JS even when playing great (Scotland 2015, RWC 2015 for example) with some of the wingers picked ahead of him simply being far less talented but hard-working (trimble, mcfadden, the kearneys to an extent) so i could understand his frustration.

You can be frustrated all you like but if a coach sees you on the field and you're only putting in half a shift then it's curtains.

Bryn Cunningham at Ulster said he'd love a team of Louis Ludiks. A guy who isn't particularly flashy but does the basics well and leaves nothing behind. Pretty much busts a gut every game he plays.
McFadden is another one for me. Not the most skilful or likely to win a game on his own but gets stuck in and is 100% committed in every game he plays.

Former Former Former

sprucemoose wrote: »

well to just take the last H cup final as an example, he was generally regarded as being racings most creative player and set up two(i think) of their tries so....

in fairness that was part of the problem in itself, he deserved to be more than just a squad player and he was regularly dropped by JS even when playing great (Scotland 2015, RWC 2015 for example) with some of the wingers picked ahead of him simply being far less talented but hard-working (trimble, mcfadden, the kearneys to an extent) so i could understand his frustration.

This is a myth.

Zebo was never as talented as he is made out to be. He was at his best when he knuckled down and worked hard. I cringe when I hear about his X-factor, it's all bollocks. You know how I know? Because he never showed it on the pitch.

You can argue he was better than Dave Kearney, it's debatable. He was better than McFadden. I would pick Trimble ahead of him every day of the week. He was simply never at Rob Kearney's level, in any facet.

thomond2006

Former Former Former wrote: »

This is a myth.

Zebo was never as talented as he is made out to be. He was at his best when he knuckled down and worked hard. I cringe when I hear about his X-factor, it's all bollocks. You know how I know? Because he never showed it on the pitch.

You can argue he was better than Dave Kearney, it's debatable. He was better than McFadden. I would pick Trimble ahead of him every day of the week. He was simply never at Rob Kearney's level, in any facet.

Never? As in never ever?

If anything, Zebo is one of the great highlight reel players.