Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

thomond2006

Rigor Mortis wrote: »

Thomond! I'll hold your coat.

Look, Venjur is a sad, sad poster and is beyond redemption at this stage.

salmocab

thomond2006 wrote: »

Look, Venjur is a sad, sad poster and is beyond redemption at this stage.

He also knows that if Hayes was around now he’d be playing second row for a j1 team.

Sanjuro

I swear to god, reading the last few pages of this thread...

OneLungDavy

molloyjh wrote: »

I dont think that was the point being made at all. The point was that he was a big "what if", i.e.that he could have been up there but ended up not being.

And I'd agree with that. For me there were 2 things that got in Fitzgeralds way. The first was the obvious. Injury. The guy seemed to spend more time injured than fit after 2010. That is obviously going to impact any players ability to meet their potential.

The other thing that got in his way was Luke Fitzgerald. The "I'm a fullback" notion or the focus on other elements of his game to the detriment of his attacking game because he felt he needed to be different were things that really hurt his career.

If he could have gotten a good run injury-free and gotten out of his own way he absolutely could have gone on to be one of our best. He took to senior rugby really well at both Leinster and Ireland. He played all of Irelands GS games and was a Test Lion at 21. That doesnt happen off potential alone. It just all went wrong for him from there, in part due to things he could control and in part due to things he couldn't.

I think he was a more natural centre, he could have been a great 12. Although he had that great year in 09, I don't think his best attributes really suited wing. He couldn't kick to save his life and his fielding wasn't very good either, nor his finishing.

Former Former Former

OneLungDavy wrote: »

I think he was a more natural centre, he could have been a great 12. Although he had that great year in 09, I don't think his best attributes really suited wing. He couldn't kick to save his life and his fielding wasn't very good either, nor his finishing.

I remember watching him at 12 against Toulon in what turned out to be his last season and thinking, yeah, this is his position now, he was class.

Then he got injured again, then he retired.

sprucemoose

OneLungDavy wrote: »

He couldn't kick to save his life and his fielding wasn't very good either, nor his finishing.

bit harsh, he wasnt that bad. he was goalkicker for blackrock college as far as i remember so he cant have been that bad

Jump_In_Jack

OneLungDavy wrote: »

I think he was a more natural centre, he could have been a great 12. Although he had that great year in 09, I don't think his best attributes really suited wing. He couldn't kick to save his life and his fielding wasn't very good either, nor his finishing.

I know someone that played Gaelic football with him underage and he (Fitzgerald) was a great player by all accounts, I think he took a lot of frees and might have been a leftie, that was before he went pro in rugby, not sure he had any issues with kicking a rugby ball either, was that a common comment about his game?
He spoke about wanting to go back and play for his GAA club in retirement, but I don't know if he ever did.

molloyjh

OneLungDavy wrote: »

I think he was a more natural centre, he could have been a great 12. Although he had that great year in 09, I don't think his best attributes really suited wing. He couldn't kick to save his life and his fielding wasn't very good either, nor his finishing.

I dont remember his kicking or fielding being all that noteworthy one way or the other tbh. But there is definitely merit in the idea that he could have been a centre. As Former Former Former Former Former Former pointed out, he was very good at 12 for Leinster in his last season, albeit with only a handful of appearances there.

But to say his finishing wasn't very good isn't something I'd agree with. He was a great finisher early on in his career, but the obsession with developing other areas of his game ended up taking away from his attacking game such that we just didn't see it that much in the latter half of his career. But when you look at Munster in 2009 or Bath in 2011 or Northampton in 2014 for example, there's a load of examples of him running great support lines and finishing well, beating a defender or two and/or just being in the right position to get the score. Beyond that, his support lines to enable others to score were fantastic. Tries like Drico vs Cardiff on the 2012 HEC QF wouldn't have been scored but for his timing and positioning.

clsmooth

Former Former Former wrote: »

I remember watching him at 12 against Toulon in what turned out to be his last season and thinking, yeah, this is his position now, he was class.

Then he got injured again, then he retired.

He was briliant that season. 12 really suited his footwork. One of my favourite players to watch. And more than happy to roll up his sleeves and get involved in the dirty work. He struggled for form around 2010-2011 after coming back from the cruciate and he didn't go too well at 15. Had numerous injuries after that and never seemed to get a decent run until around 2015 but from then until his retirement 18 months later he was as good as ever. I won't comment of some of his views

jm08

Jump_In_Jack wrote: »

I know someone that played Gaelic football with him underage and he (Fitzgerald) was a great player by all accounts, I think he took a lot of frees and might have been a leftie, that was before he went pro in rugby, not sure he had any issues with kicking a rugby ball either, was that a common comment about his game?
He spoke about wanting to go back and play for his GAA club in retirement, but I don't know if he ever did.

Ya, he was a leftie, like Kearney and Zebo. One of the reasons why Zebo will be welcomed with both arms in the Munster and Ireland camp.



Luke was a very good defensive winger. He lacked a bit of pace and I always thought he would have made a great 12. Pity about the injuries.

The Inbetween is mine

To summarize the last week.....
Zebo. bad
Lukey good

Shall we move on

Louis Friend

Louis Friend wrote: »

Ciaran Scally would be for me.

Ok so reaching back here, but Ken Goodall. Extraordinary athlete.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland-and-lions-rugby-star-who-also-played-league-1.1040555

Capped at 19 in 1967. Selected as a Lion in 1968 (Australia). Went to Rugby League in 1970 at 23. Mervyn Davies said if he (Goodall) hadn't, no one would ever have heard of Mervyn Davies. Ar dheis Dé go raibh a anam dílis.

Edit:

Scores a famous try at 2.30 here, but you have to listen to George Hook talk about it. This is against the 1970 Welsh team. Ken Goodall was physically, as an athelete, in a different league to everyone else on the pitch. My father was at the match and often talked about this try.

https://youtu.be/xAY1AOuIB7Q?t=145

edit: I'm hopeless at linking trying to embed it to play at 2.30 sorry, but the link works.

sprucemoose

The Inbetween is mine wrote: »

Shall we move on

not much else happening at the moment really, might as well continue

clsmooth

jm08 wrote: »

Luke was a very good defensive winger. He lacked a bit of pace and I always thought he would have made a great 12. Pity about the injuries.

May I suggest a who was faster between Tommy Bowe and Luke Fitzgerald debate? For my money over the first 50m Luke Fitz, but for longer distances up to but not capped at 5k I'd go with Tommy Bowe.

Teferi

The Inbetween is mine wrote: »

To summarize the last week.....
Zebo. bad

Good to see that showing evidence can change people's minds.

sprucemoose

ecoli3136 wrote: »

in a different league to everyone else

i like what you did there.

but in all seriousness its ridiculous to see in that article the animosity between union and league before the professional era. have heard (possibly tall) tales of the IRFU being less than accommodating when the first league teams were being established, shame because the game could really help develop core skills in players

sebdavis

Teferi wrote: »

Good to see that showing evidence can change people's minds.

If you think what you provided was evidence I just hope you never have to go to court :P

Teferi

sebdavis wrote: »

If you think what you provided was evidence I just hope you never have to go to court :P

There are none so blind as those who will not see.

Tommybojangles

Can't we just talk about Harry Byrne some more?

swiwi_

Buer wrote: »

F*cking hell.


Is anyone else turned on right now?

Ah Buer and the annual swallow that makes his summer.

UAEguy2020

Tommybojangles wrote: »

Can't we just talk about Harry Byrne some more?

I’ll kick it off, happy birthday Harry!

TRC10

UAEguy2020 wrote: »

I’ll kick it off, happy birthday Harry!

A bit like Fitzgerald, another "what if".

Showed massive promise early in his career, but never really lived up to the hype. Was only ever a decent provincial level player.

Maybe he will fufil his potential, but he's 22 now so its probably unlikely.

Buer

swiwi_ wrote: »

Ah Buer and the annual swallow that makes his summer.

Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose.

The Inbetween is mine

sebdavis wrote: »

If you think what you provided was evidence I just hope you never have to go to court :P

I kind if hope he does...he'll be quiet on here for 3 to 5 years

Teferi

The Inbetween is mine wrote: »

I kind if hope he does...he'll be quiet on here for 3 to 5 years

What will I have to be quiet about?

I suspect you are going to tell me something that could be resolved with a bit of reading comprehension.

leakyboots

My abiding memory of Fitzgerald as a winger is overrunning potential tries, had trouble getting his timing right to receive the pass. He had fantastic footwork though, loved seeing him in busy traffic, a bit like Shane Williams in that regard.

Always felt he was a bit over-rated by our Leinster brethren, at international level anyway. He did start off like a comet very early on to be fair but I don't think he was anywhere near our best winger when you look back. It is a shame about the injuries, you'd have liked to have seen him get more caps. And it probably didn't help being shunted around the backs like he was.

The less said about his punditry the better!!

ersatz

BoardsMember wrote: »

Massive Luke fan here too. Surprised by his stats in Green. The way he influenced the game off the bench against Argentina in the RWC. For that alone he has legendary status for me. And I realise that is silly. Again coming back from injury, if I remember correctly.

Some players that you see in the flesh you realise they are special. Luke was one such player. Sorry. Manlove. It kills me how appalling the podcast is.

Yeah, he was amazing to watch live. I saw him come on in a HC game at Landsdowne against Bath (I think) and set the place on fire. The field was packed with test players but he was a different class that night.

Yeah_Right

clsmooth wrote: »

He was briliant that season. 12 really suited his footwork. One of my favourite players to watch. And more than happy to roll up his sleeves and get involved in the dirty work. He struggled for form around 2010-2011 after coming back from the cruciate and he didn't go too well at 15. Had numerous injuries after that and never seemed to get a decent run until around 2015 but from then until his retirement 18 months later he was as good as ever. I won't comment of some of his views

That's a highlight package?? Why would anyone bother putting together a video of that. If that's considered one of his great performances then ...meh.

.ak

Yeah_Right wrote: »

That's a highlight package?? Why would anyone bother putting together a video of that. If that's considered one of his great performances then ...meh.

C’mon he’s ghosting Ma Nonu for fun! One of Australia’s best!

thegreycity

.ak wrote: »

C’mon he’s ghosting Ma Nonu for fun! One of Australia’s best!

https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/993/875/084.png