Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

Paul Smeenus

TRC10 wrote: »

Keenan and Zebo are definitely our 2 best full backs so yeah I'd have him in.

Larmour has had some good games at 15 but he's never really looked solid there. I think wing should be his primary position from now on.

I hate saying this but Lowry I think is too small to be an international 15. He's not too small to be a 10 however. And I'd love to see him in the squad as 10. He's different to all the other 10s we have.

Personally, though I understand folks' misgivings about Lowry's size, I think his performances have warranted a chance for him to prove otherwise.

thomond2006

Gavin Coombes. Cap the man.

Interested Observer

thomond2006 wrote: »

Gavin Coombes. Cap the man.

I would imagine whatever games we have this summer he'll be involved.

Wegians89

Can’t wait to see Coombes and Doris in the same back row, question is which one will be at 8 and which one at 6?

Clegg

Wegians89 wrote: »

Can’t wait to see Coombes and Doris in the same back row, question is which one will be at 8 and which one at 6?

Doris has performed better at 8 for Leinster and Ireland whenever I've seen him play. Gets a bit more room to carry and pick his lines. Coombes is a bigger unit and can be used to get that initial gain line break more effectively than Doris.

clsmooth

Coombes is an exciting talent alright. My only question on him is his defence, I’ve seen him miss a few tackles this season. Possible reason why he hasn’t been capped already?

Jump_In_Jack

Wegians89 wrote: »

Can’t wait to see Coombes and Doris in the same back row, question is which one will be at 8 and which one at 6?

Conan 6, Coombes 8, Doris 20 IMHO.

Clegg

Jump_In_Jack wrote: »

Conan 6, Coombes 8, Doris 20 IMHO.

With respect, Doris is a better player than Coombes and I can't see an instance when a fully fit Doris is out of the starting 15.

Conan's resurgence on the test scene is also a factor here. He could well be the Irish 8 going forward.

Jump_In_Jack

Clegg wrote: »

With respect, Doris is a better player than Coombes and I can't see an instance when a fully fit Doris is out of the starting 15.

Conan's resurgence on the test scene is also a factor here. He could well be the Irish 8 going forward.

I just see Coombes as the best 8 of the lot, and the best 6 option of the rest is Conan, I remember him being phenomenal when he first broke through for Ireland at blind side, and I see Doris as an excellent player but just not as good as Coombes IMHO.
Coombes does so many special things, just alone in the match last night, there was an instance on the wing where he was seemingly tackled into touch yet managed to get a pass off to O’Mahony I think and even the commentators were confused as to how he did it.
He does these little offloads and carries, and scores tries so often that it’s looking like that just is his natural level. He’s done it time after time no matter who he’s up against.
I just see him as the most gifted 8 we’ve ever produced in the making.
Doris is good no doubt, and also Deegan is too if he gets back to his previous.
If we have two better locks than Beirne it would be a very tough call but would probably play Beirne 6 ahead of Conan too.
Maybe from our current players I’d go Beirne and Henderson in the second row, and Baird as 19.

Clegg

I'm looking forward to seeing Coombes on green, but as of yet he's not really been proven at the highest level whereas Doris has excelled at test level. It could be that he eventually becomes an all time great 8. But based on performances to date against the best opposition I think the starting jersey has to go to Doris.

And I'm aware that I'm probably not giving Conan enough respect here.

thomond2006

Coombes' ball carrying looks to be already good enough but he's developing the other parts of his game. Red hat on but I'd hope that Coombes can really push on to the Ireland 23 for next year's 6N.

TomsOnTheRoof

Clegg wrote: »

I'm looking forward to seeing Coombes on green, but as of yet he's not really been proven at the highest level whereas Doris has excelled at test level. It could be that he eventually becomes an all time great 8. But based on performances to date against the best opposition I think the starting jersey has to go to Doris.

And I'm aware that I'm probably not giving Conan enough respect here.

Doris has played 7 internationals, one of which saw him leave the field early into the first half, it's far too soon to say he has excelled in test rugby.

The only way Coombes is going to be able to prove that he has what it takes is for him to get capped. Personally I think this should have been done in the 6 Nations but should the Summer tests go ahead then hell get his opportunity.

Clegg

Doris was one of our best forwards in the Autumn Cup. We may not have payed well as a whole, but he was one of the few standouts. It's unfortunate he was hit with injury when he was as I think he'd be in the Lions squad for the SA tour. I rate him very, very highly

sebdavis

All this talk of Coombes and rightly so but no mention of Penny who had a great season

bilston

sebdavis wrote: »

All this talk of Coombes and rightly so but no mention of Penny who had a great season

Coombes played last night, Penny didn't. I'm sure if it was the other way round the conversation would be as well.

Dubinusa

I think Beirne is far and away the best 6 available. He is a dominant player at 6. Conan imo, is the best 8 available atm. Doris and Coombes are in the mix also.
Deegan, like Leavy has a long way to go to get back to the required level. Beirne has the ability to be the best 6 in the world, imo. He's a unique talent and is flying atm. Doris is nowhere as good at 6. We have insanely good players in the back row.

Clegg

bilston wrote: »

Coombes played last night, Penny didn't. I'm sure if it was the other way round the conversation would be as well.

Penny has the problem of being behind three test quality opensides at Leinster. All of whom are in their 20's and still have many years ahead of them (fingers crossed on Leavy obviously). Leinster are very, very good at giving young players opportunities in big games. But I don't think it's realistic to expect Penny to start a Champions Cup game if VDF or Connors is available

sebdavis

Clegg wrote: »

Penny has the problem of being behind three test quality opensides at Leinster. All of whom are in their 20's and still have many years ahead of them (fingers crossed on Leavy obviously). Leinster are very, very good at giving young players opportunities in big games. But I don't think it's realistic to expect Penny to start a Champions Cup game if VDF or Connors is available

Penny is 21 and Coombes is 23, I would expect at 23 Penny will have plenty of European games under his belt and with hopefully an improved Pro16 will make Irish team less reliant on European games to show players quality

Not just for Penny and Coombes but all players

TRC10

Back Row depth chart

Blindside
1. Beirne
2. O'Mahony
3. Ruddock

Openside
1. van der Flier
2. Connors
3. Leavy

No.8
1. Conan
2. Doris
3. Coombes

Pretty decent

sebdavis

TRC10 wrote: »

Back Row depth chart

Blindside
1. Beirne
2. O'Mahony
3. Ruddock

Openside
1. van der Flier
2. Connors
3. Leavy

No.8
1. Conan
2. Doris
3. Coombes

Pretty decent

At this stage we need to see Leavy back for a sustained period to put into the ranking, he just has had a horrible run of injuries and hopefully he returns but also hopefully he has no long term affects

TRC10

sebdavis wrote: »

At this stage we need to see Leavy back for a sustained period to put into the ranking, he just has had a horrible run of injuries and hopefully he returns but also hopefully he has no long term affects

I know he's been injured, hence why he's number 3. Stick O'Mahony in with the 7s and put Baird into the 6s if you want

bilston

TRC10 wrote: »

Back Row depth chart

Blindside
1. Beirne
2. O'Mahony
3. Ruddock

Openside
1. van der Flier
2. Connors
3. Leavy

No.8
1. Conan
2. Doris
3. Coombes

Pretty decent

Its decent, but who are the world class players?

Leavy was getting there before he got his injured. Doris, I'm convinced will get there and I'm very impressed by Coombes, but he is still uncapped so we don't know for sure how he will adapt to test rugby.

We have a lot of good to very good players. But who is the next Sean O'Brien, Stephen Ferris, David Wallace or Jamie Heaslip level of player?

Dubinusa

bilston wrote: »

Its decent, but who are the world class players?

Leavy was getting there before he got his injured. Doris, I'm convinced will get there and I'm very impressed by Coombes, but he is still uncapped so we don't know for sure how he will adapt to test rugby.

We have a lot of good to very good players. But who is the next Sean O'Brien, Stephen Ferris, David Wallace or Jamie Heaslip level of player?

I think Beirne at 6 could be.

sebdavis

Dubinusa wrote: »

I think Beirne at 6 could be.

Beirne is 29 and at his peak, would he be in the World Class bracket?

Clegg

sebdavis wrote: »

Beirne is 29 and at his peak, would he be in the World Class bracket?

Not sure if he's world class. But he made the Six Nations team of the tournament and was on the short list for player of the tournament. He's certainly very good.

TRC10

sebdavis wrote: »

Beirne is 29 and at his peak, would he be in the World Class bracket?

Scott Fardy only broke into the Wallabies team at 29. Brad Thorn didnt make his ABs debut until he was 28.

If Beirne carries on his form from this year's 6 nations then yeah he'll be regarded as world class

AbusesToilets

TRC10 wrote: »

Back Row depth chart

Blindside
1. Beirne
2. O'Mahony
3. Ruddock

Openside
1. van der Flier
2. Connors
3. Leavy

No.8
1. Conan
2. Doris
3. Coombes

Pretty decent

Ruddock was the form 6 by a mile this season, especially towards the business end. Beirne should be played in the row, it's where he's best imo.

TRC10

I know the USA game was confirmed, but a game against tier 1 opposition would be nice this summer. With only 8 away with the Lions we can still field a strong team. It'd be great if we could get someone like Australia or Argentina.

Lost Ormond

TRC10 wrote: »

I know the USA game was confirmed, but a game against tier 1 opposition would be nice this summer. With only 8 away with the Lions we can still field a strong team. It'd be great if we could get someone like Australia or Argentina.

Australia have 3 games against France and a game against Japan ahead of rugby championship so little chance of a game against them

sprucemoose

TRC10 wrote: »

Brad Thorn didnt make his ABs debut until he was 28.

just being pedantic but thorn played state of origin at 21 (i think), basically the highest level of rugby league