Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

arsebiscuits1

greenkiwi1 wrote: »

Think Kevin Obyrne deserves a shot. He did make the pro14 team of the year.

Does he?

He's 30 and the Munster lineout has been ropey at best.

Does he offer a real point of difference over Scannell, Heffernan or Tracy all of whom are similar age profiles

I'd bring Sheehan if we want a young player who needs experience.

There's very few Hookers in Ireland in the 25 age bracket who have been putting their hands up

nerd69

OneLungDavy wrote: »

No issues with the Roux move. The Van Der Merwe transfer does make a mockery of the rule, gains eligibility then jumps ship almost immediately.

Indeed roux has 8 years and over 100 caps and as another rooster said plans to return when he retires he's hardly a mercenary

arsebiscuits1

Shaka Hislop wrote: »

N*** F****** banging his anti-residency rule drum again today after Quinn Roux's announcement that's he's leaving Ireland

When you mention it's name it gains notoriety.

This thing only has a job because people react to what's printed.

Ignore what is said and eventually it will go away.

greenkiwi1

arsebiscuits1 wrote: »

Does he?

He's 30 and the Munster lineout has been ropey at best.

Does he offer a real point of difference over Scannell, Heffernan or Tracy all of whom are similar age profiles

I'd bring Sheehan if we want a young player who needs experience.

There's very few Hookers in Ireland in the 25 age bracket who have been putting their hands up

Cannot blame KOB for munsters ropey line outs as he is lucky to get 10mins off the bench the last few months. Kelleher is also prone to throwing the odd stray line out but with POC in the coaching set up this is an area which shod improve.

Of the hookers mentioned of the same age profile he would be the more dynamic in open play - like an extra center at times.

Pre-Xmas I would have had Marshall in contention as well but with no contract renewal & no game time since coming off the bench for Munster A vs Benetton he is supposedly back to NZ.

thomond2006

OneLungDavy wrote: »

No issues with the Roux move. The Van Der Merwe transfer does make a mockery of the rule, gains eligibility then jumps ship almost immediately.

VDM wasn't an isolated case either. Maitland and Josh Strauss come to mind. John Hardie also but he had off field issues too.

On the other hand, you have WP Nel who is still at Edinburgh after 8 or 9 seasons.

RugbyLover123

thomond2006 wrote: »

VDM wasn't an isolated case either. Maitland and Josh Strauss come to mind. John Hardie also but he had off field issues too.

On the other hand, you have WP Nel who is still at Edinburgh after 8 or 9 seasons.

Pretty sure Maitland qualified through the granny rule did he not?

TRC10

greenkiwi1 wrote: »

Cannot blame KOB for munsters ropey line outs as he is lucky to get 10mins off the bench the last few months. Kelleher is also prone to throwing the odd stray line out but with POC in the coaching set up this is an area which shod improve.

Of the hookers mentioned of the same age profile he would be the more dynamic in open play - like an extra center at times.

Pre-Xmas I would have had Marshall in contention as well but with no contract renewal & no game time since coming off the bench for Munster A vs Benetton he is supposedly back to NZ.

Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think Kelleher missed one throw vs Exeter or La Rochelle. He was prone to maybe 1 stray throw a game but it seems to me as though he's ironed that out of his game. His darts have been very good of late.

The hookers I'd have in the squad are Kelleher, Herring and Sheehan.

thomond2006

RugbyLover123 wrote: »

Pretty sure Maitland qualified through the granny rule did he not?

Oops, you are correct.

sydthebeat

thomond2006 wrote: »

VDM wasn't an isolated case either. Maitland and Josh Strauss come to mind. John Hardie also but he had off field issues too.

On the other hand, you have WP Nel who is still at Edinburgh after 8 or 9 seasons.

Hardie was also granny rule

thomond2006

sydthebeat wrote: »

Hardie was also granny rule

Bah humbug.

swiwi_

Why is it always the granny and never the grandpa

salmocab

swiwi_ wrote: »

Why is it always the granny and never the grandpa

They go all over the world getting themselves pregnant

errlloyd

swiwi_ wrote: »

Why is it always the granny and never the grandpa

I know you're being facetious.

But it's because of the second name. When we're trying to explain how Cascarino is Irish you say the granny rule.

Whereas when there is a 2nd generation Irish immigrant call Patrick Murphy living in the USA, you never spend as much time defending their Irishness!

In fact, with lads like O Flaherty at Exeter you have Irish lads up and down the country asking if he's eligible when he scores.

theVersatile

Too early for Sheehan IMO. Looked explosive in sparks against Pro14 fodder but he needs to lock down his darts like Kelleher. Give him a season, let him have time to hone his skills, usurp Tracey and Cronin, and get interpro/CC game time.

Kelleher has improved in fairness, although the Leinster line out does seem to throw towards the front more often than would be expected to accommodate him. Ruddock in the 2 or 3 zone seems to be their go to ball.

KOB probably a bit late to invest time in as much as I love the man. Especially since he's struggling for games behind his more traditional comrades. You'll probably see Herring, Heffernan, Kelleher and Tracey (he was in an extended Andy Farrell 6N/Autumn squad right? Am I making that up?). Three of those four, with the possibility of Herring getting a late Lions call.

Nines - probably JGP Casey Blade

sprucemoose

theVersatile wrote: »

Herring, Heffernan, Kelleher and Tracey

tracy surely shouldnt be there, 2/3 choice in leinster and 30 so itd be a bit of a waste. id imagine scannell should come back in as average as hes been since coming back

Squidgy Black

theVersatile wrote: »

Too early for Sheehan IMO. Looked explosive in sparks against Pro14 fodder but he needs to lock down his darts like Kelleher. Give him a season, let him have time to hone his skills, usurp Tracey and Cronin, and get interpro/CC game time.

Kelleher has improved in fairness, although the Leinster line out does seem to throw towards the front more often than would be expected to accommodate him. Ruddock in the 2 or 3 zone seems to be their go to ball.

KOB probably a bit late to invest time in as much as I love the man. Especially since he's struggling for games behind his more traditional comrades. You'll probably see Herring, Heffernan, Kelleher and Tracey (he was in an extended Andy Farrell 6N/Autumn squad right? Am I making that up?). Three of those four, with the possibility of Herring getting a late Lions call.

Nines - probably JGP Casey Blade

Would be very surprised if Herring got called up over McInally, so could see them just going with Herring/Kelleher/Heffernan.

Tracy trained with the Autumns cup squad alongside Wycherley/Harry Byrne and co.

arsebiscuits1

theVersatile wrote: »

Too early for Sheehan IMO. Looked explosive in sparks against Pro14 fodder but he needs to lock down his darts like Kelleher. Give him a season, let him have time to hone his skills, usurp Tracey and Cronin, and get interpro/CC game time.

Kelleher has improved in fairness, although the Leinster line out does seem to throw towards the front more often than would be expected to accommodate him. Ruddock in the 2 or 3 zone seems to be their go to ball.

KOB probably a bit late to invest time in as much as I love the man. Especially since he's struggling for games behind his more traditional comrades. You'll probably see Herring, Heffernan, Kelleher and Tracey (he was in an extended Andy Farrell 6N/Autumn squad right? Am I making that up?). Three of those four, with the possibility of Herring getting a late Lions call.

Nines - probably JGP Casey Blade

Kelleher definitely improved and I thought there was a consensus that his throwing had been poor in the 6N that think was a bit overstated so I had a quick look at his stats

Since the France game he's thrown 37 times and lost 4 for an 89% success

Worth noting that one of his misses led to the Ireland try against France

Breakdown of his targets are:

Front: 15 (40%)
Middle: 16 (43%)
Back: 5 (13%)
OTT: 1 (3%)

That split of front middle back would be pretty expected for a Hooker IMO.

aloooof

arsebiscuits1 wrote: »

Kelleher definitely improved and I thought there was a consensus that his throwing had been poor in the 6N that think was a bit overstated so I had a quick look at his stats.

My impression would’ve been that his darts, and the line out more generally, we’re much improved during the 6 Nations. That, coupled with some of his showings in the loose (thinking the final v Munster), for me makes it a much closer call between him and Herring. Can’t say I know nearly enough about scrum time tho.

TRC10

theVersatile wrote: »

Too early for Sheehan IMO. Looked explosive in sparks against Pro14 fodder but he needs to lock down his darts like Kelleher. Give him a season, let him have time to hone his skills, usurp Tracey and Cronin, and get interpro/CC game time.

This annoys me. The games are against USA and Japan and he'd be 3rd choice hooker and maybe get 20 minutes in one of the games. If your're not going to use these games to blood young players, when are you? Anyone who's watched him this season will tell you how much potential he has and might even have a higher ceiling than Kelleher. His darts haven't been an issue at all (pro14 I know, but what can you do)

I'd say he's a better player than Tracy and Cronin but Leinster and managing him because he's young and they can.

Kelleher and Sheehan will be a phenomenal duo in 2023.

realhorrorshow

arsebiscuits1 wrote: »

Kelleher definitely improved and I thought there was a consensus that his throwing had been poor in the 6N that think was a bit overstated so I had a quick look at his stats

Since the France game he's thrown 37 times and lost 4 for an 89% success

Worth noting that one of his misses led to the Ireland try against France

Breakdown of his targets are:

Front: 15 (40%)
Middle: 16 (43%)
Back: 5 (13%)
OTT: 1 (3%)

That split of front middle back would be pretty expected for a Hooker IMO.

That's interesting, do you have the equivalent stats for Herring? My impression would have been that we went to the front relatively often when Kelleher was throwing, but that is obviously not borne out by the stats.

Yeah_Right

TRC10 wrote: »

Kelleher and Sheehan will be a phenomenal duo in 2023.

Wonder which one will be playing for Munster by then.

arsebiscuits1

realhorrorshow wrote: »

That's interesting, do you have the equivalent stats for Herring? My impression would have been that we went to the front relatively often when Kelleher was throwing, but that is obviously not borne out by the stats.

Don't have Herrings stats no.

And on your point. He's thrown to the front a good bit for Leinster recently. Between LAR and Exeter it was a good bit to the front.

But that's largely Leinsters MO. They rarely launch from the back. And attack the front middle a lot regardless of the Hooker

TRC10

Yeah_Right wrote: »

Wonder which one will be playing for Munster by then.

Sheehan would go to Munster and he wouldn't get a game because they'd have O'Byrne and Scannell ahead of him in every matchday 23. Just ask Salanoa.

connachta

We can say what we want but tonight again, was a high-quality nght, I dare say the 4 Irish provinces overall are more cohesive, brillant, than ever seen before.
It's looking good for 2023 and 2027.
We may need 2 genious captains, forward and back. But we have depth, incredible depth!

Thrashssacre

Anyone know when the squad for the summer games is too be announced last lion's year we had our squad already announced by now, looking forward too seeing how many uncapped players get a call up.

El_Duderino 09

Thrashssacre wrote: »

Anyone know when the squad for the summer games is too be announced last lion's year we had our squad already announced by now, looking forward too seeing how many uncapped players get a call up.

The summer our was cancelled. I presumed they would have a summer Ireland training camp, but there's no rush on it as there's no tour.

Have they got any games lined up?

Squidgy Black

Thrashssacre wrote: »

Anyone know when the squad for the summer games is too be announced last lion's year we had our squad already announced by now, looking forward too seeing how many uncapped players get a call up.

They're home games this time around, rainbow cup is still on going and the schedule is a few weeks later for the two games than the last tour of Japan so I'd say it'll be a few weeks until anything is announced cause it's usually only announced two weeks before the first game or so

bilston

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

The summer our was cancelled. I presumed they would have a summer Ireland training camp, but there's no rush on it as there's no tour.

Have they got any games lined up?

Playing Japan and USA in 3rd and 10th July at the Aviva

OneLungDavy

There's some amount of rugby coming up this Summer. An example of the first week in July:

Thurs 1st July | Ireland U20 v England U20
Sat 3rd July | Emirates Lions v B&I Lions
Sat 3rd July | Ireland v Japan
Wed 7th July | Sharks v B&I Lions
Wed 7th July | Italy U20 v Ireland U20

BonnieSituation

bilston wrote: »

Playing Japan and USA in 3rd and 10th July at the Aviva

Now the key thing is, what time those games are scheduled for. You'd assume they'd be at the latest 2pm to stop a clash with the Lions matches at 5.