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Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

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    #7622
    TRC10
    Registered Users Posts: 3,941 ✭✭✭TRC10


    aloooof wrote: »
    I know it won't go over too well in some quarters, but with Henderson and Beirne off on the Lions and Roux leaving, is there a chance Jean Kleyn could see some game time this summer? He's been in pretty decent form this season.

    Ryan, Baird and Dillane the obvious candidates for the 23 but after that, there's room for one more from the likes of Treadwell, Thornbury and Kleyn? Am I forgetting anyone obvious?

    Don't rate him at all. I'd have Thornbury and Treadwell both ahead of him.


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    #7623
    molloyjh
    Registered Users Posts: 24,762 ✭✭✭✭molloyjh


    aloooof wrote: »
    I know it won't go over too well in some quarters, but with Henderson and Beirne off on the Lions and Roux leaving, is there a chance Jean Kleyn could see some game time this summer? He's been in pretty decent form this season.

    Ryan, Baird and Dillane the obvious candidates for the 23 but after that, there's room for one more from the likes of Treadwell, Thornbury and Kleyn? Am I forgetting anyone obvious?

    Yeah Kleyn is def a possibility. Thornbury is injured, hasn't played in over a month. Treadwell isn't a TH lock and I reckon thats what we'll be including given that Dillane is a LH lock...


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    #7624
    El_Duderino 09
    Registered Users Posts: 20,229 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    TRC10 wrote: »
    Don't rate him at all. I'd have Thornbury and Treadwell both ahead of him.

    I thought his form was good for munster this season. Hard to tell of he's good at pro14 level or good at international level.

    I'd be interested in Thornbury though he was really impressive this year. Seemed like a real leader by example.


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    #7625
    Squidgy Black
    Registered Users Posts: 21,677 ✭✭✭✭Squidgy Black


    aloooof wrote: »
    I know it won't go over too well in some quarters, but with Henderson and Beirne off on the Lions and Roux leaving, is there a chance Jean Kleyn could see some game time this summer? He's been in pretty decent form this season.

    Ryan, Baird and Dillane the obvious candidates for the 23 but after that, there's room for one more from the likes of Treadwell, Thornbury and Kleyn? Am I forgetting anyone obvious?

    Fineen Wycherley possibly


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    #7626
    TRC10
    Registered Users Posts: 3,941 ✭✭✭TRC10


    El_Duderino 09 wrote: »
    I thought his form was good for munster this season. Hard to tell of he's good at pro14 level or good at international level.

    I'd be interested in Thornbury though he was really impressive this year. Seemed like a real leader by example.

    I think it's the former for me. He had his chance with Ireland and I thought he was brutal. And he hasn't really shown enough in the big H Cup games to change my mind. I'm a big Treadwell fan myself, and I'd select him if were looking for a TH lock.


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    #7627
    molloyjh
    Registered Users Posts: 24,762 ✭✭✭✭molloyjh


    TRC10 wrote: »
    I think it's the former for me. He had his chance with Ireland and I thought he was brutal. And he hasn't really shown enough in the big H Cup games to change my mind. I'm a big Treadwell fan myself, and I'd select him if were looking for a TH lock.

    When did Treadwell last play as a TH lock? AFAIK he's always played LH.


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    #7628
    arsebiscuits1
    Registered Users Posts: 3,625 ✭✭✭arsebiscuits1


    molloyjh wrote: »
    When did Treadwell last play as a TH lock? AFAIK he's always played LH.

    10 of his 18 caps this season were at 5.

    Of course he may well have packed down on the loose side.


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    #7629
    starkid
    Registered Users Posts: 762 ✭✭✭starkid


    so how good is Dan Kelly? i mean clearly there wasn't any work done to get him on board in real earnest. surely he could have got a token cap this summer but that wasn't going to happen. maybe he's another Shane Geragthy

    Are we that good to be passing up on Englands brightest prospects?

    I'm starting to worry that we're totally overhyping our young players. I find it quite depressing seeing teams for the summer with Larmour and Stockdale on the bench. People would have bet houses on them being on the Lions.


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    #7630
    aloooof
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 10,597 Mod ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    starkid wrote: »
    i mean clearly there wasn't any work done to get him on board in real earnest.

    What’s your evidence for this, exactly?


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    #7631
    nerd69
    Registered Users Posts: 10,091 ✭✭✭✭nerd69


    starkid wrote: »
    so how good is Dan Kelly? i mean clearly there wasn't any work done to get him on board in real earnest. surely he could have got a token cap this summer but that wasn't going to happen. maybe he's another Shane Geragthy

    Are we that good to be passing up on Englands brightest prospects?

    I'm starting to worry that we're totally overhyping our young players. I find it quite depressing seeing teams for the summer with Larmour and Stockdale on the bench. People would have bet houses on them being on the Lions.

    He's still under 20 why on earth would we have capped him? And why should we prioritize non Irish born players?


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    #7632
    starkid
    Registered Users Posts: 762 ✭✭✭starkid


    nerd69 wrote: »
    He's still under 20 why on earth would we have capped him? And why should we prioritize non Irish born players?

    ah yeah i mean why would England cap him either...an under 20 has never ever played international rugby.

    Why stop we've had no issue up to now. or is it because he's English? Connacht have prioritised two this summer already, two over a huge number of Irish prospects and world class sevens internationals.

    Anyway my main question is..is he a real talent? Big, pacy, skillful. Don't think we can pass up opportunities like that. I hope we had proper discussions with him.

    Pretty impressive getting called up to the full English squad.

    I mean we have mickey mouse games this summer, ones even our coach doesn't seem too bothered about, you'd hope Ireland offered him a route into these games. if they did and he said no fair enough. but i'd guess we didn't, in the naive thinking that we are alright.

    we clearly aren't as good as we think, particularly with some of our hyped up players, if you take the Lions as a barometer. If Dan Kelly was just asked to play under 20s again then you'd have to say it was a monumental **** up.


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    #7633
    Lost Ormond
    Registered Users Posts: 4,045 ✭✭✭Lost Ormond


    starkid wrote: »
    so how good is Dan Kelly? i mean clearly there wasn't any work done to get him on board in real earnest. surely he could have got a token cap this summer but that wasn't going to happen. maybe he's another Shane Geragthy

    Are we that good to be passing up on Englands brightest prospects?

    I'm starting to worry that we're totally overhyping our young players. I find it quite depressing seeing teams for the summer with Larmour and Stockdale on the bench. People would have bet houses on them being on the Lions.
    He seems to be pretty good but how do you know there wasnt much work to get him on board?
    We've always totally overhyped many of our young players...
    nerd69 wrote: »
    He's still under 20 why on earth would we have capped him? And why should we prioritize non Irish born players?
    He has irish parents. we've regularly picked players not born in ireland with irish parents/grandparents who've not lived in ireland....


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    #7634
    nerd69
    Registered Users Posts: 10,091 ✭✭✭✭nerd69


    He's English born and raised and Eddie Jones approached him that's likely why he's moved. He's a good prospect but at this stage not James Ryan or anything like that imo.

    As for england selecting him jones just likes to **** with people/the media If he hadn't played ireland underage I doubt he'd be in the squad


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    #7635
    Shaka Hislop
    Closed Accounts Posts: 486 ✭✭Shaka Hislop


    starkid wrote: »
    so how good is Dan Kelly? i mean clearly there wasn't any work done to get him on board in real earnest. surely he could have got a token cap this summer but that wasn't going to happen. maybe he's another Shane Geragthy.

    The IRFU approached him and tried to get him into the university system in Ireland, he refused and that was probably the end of his Irish involvement unfortunately


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    #7636
    arsebiscuits1
    Registered Users Posts: 3,625 ✭✭✭arsebiscuits1


    starkid wrote: »
    ah yeah i mean why would England cap him either...an under 20 has never ever played international rugby.

    Why stop we've had no issue up to now. or is it because he's English? Connacht have prioritised two this summer already, two over a huge number of Irish prospects and world class sevens internationals.

    Anyway my main question is..is he a real talent? Big, pacy, skillful. Don't think we can pass up opportunities like that. I hope we had proper discussions with him.

    Pretty impressive getting called up to the full English squad.

    I mean we have mickey mouse games this summer, ones even our coach doesn't seem too bothered about, you'd hope Ireland offered him a route into these games. if they did and he said no fair enough. but i'd guess we didn't, in the naive thinking that we are alright.

    we clearly aren't as good as we think, particularly with some of our hyped up players, if you take the Lions as a barometer. If Dan Kelly was just asked to play under 20s again then you'd have to say it was a monumental **** up.

    This is an insult to the player, the IRFU, and the game in general tbh.

    "Hello young prospect. I know you were born, raised, live and study in England but we'd be interested in you playing a game of no consequence purely for the benefit of stopping you ever playing for England again. And to sweeten the deal, you'd be picked over approximately 10 - 15 players who are performing better than you, have more experience and actually play in Ireland"


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    #7637
    razorblunt
    Registered Users Posts: 17,300 ✭✭✭✭razorblunt


    I really wouldn't be pulling my hair at losing the possibility of capping any young player from England unless you're talking about someone liek Itoje breaking through.
    Every now and then they seem to have players they'll wax lyrical about with BT (Sky back in the day) lauding anything they do at all. The Isiekwe chat has only just gone quiet.


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    #7638
    arsebiscuits1
    Registered Users Posts: 3,625 ✭✭✭arsebiscuits1


    Also.

    I know nothing about football really.

    But is this Dan Kelly drama similar to the ****e that they had to put up with about Jack Grealish??


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    #7639
    Podge_irl
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 26,883 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    Players don't play for international teams based on who called "Dibs" first.


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    #7640
    Former Former Former
    Registered Users Posts: 5,976 ✭✭✭Former Former Former


    Ah here.

    Kelly is 19 years old, and he's English born and bred. His Ireland U20 caps are the aberration, not the fact that he's declaring for England.

    For us to have capped him this summer, we'd have had to give a 19 year-old prospect a full senior provincial contract, convince him to drop out of college in the UK and move to a country he's never lived in, in the meantime slapping all the 19 year olds in the provincial academies in the face, and for what??


    Give me a break.


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    #7641
    bilston
    Registered Users Posts: 17,802 ✭✭✭✭bilston


    razorblunt wrote: »
    Every now and then they seem to have players they'll wax lyrical about with BT (Sky back in the day) lauding anything they do at all. The Isiekwe chat has only just gone quiet.

    Sounds very much like Boards.ie


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    #7642
    OneLungDavy
    Registered Users Posts: 367 ✭✭OneLungDavy


    Why did he play for Ireland in the first place?


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    #7643
    Squidgy Black
    Registered Users Posts: 21,677 ✭✭✭✭Squidgy Black


    OneLungDavy wrote: »
    Why did he play for Ireland in the first place?

    He wasn't on England's radar at all up until last year, he wasn't offered an academy contract by Sale, and he got called up to the Irish squad when he was playing at university. Was after the 6N in 2020 that Leicester signed him


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    #7644
    Dubinusa
    Registered Users Posts: 8,557 ✭✭✭Dubinusa


    Kelly has a contract with the Tigers! He's played senior rugby for them and has done well. If he signed with a province, he'd be playing "A" games for the foreseeable future. He'd be most likely stuck in the academy for a minimum of 1 year. He's done what's best for him.
    There's quite a few Irish lads who are waiting in the wings for their chance. I think we will find a lad as capable as Kelly.


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    #7645
    theVersatile
    Registered Users Posts: 2,300 ✭✭✭theVersatile


    Squad out Monday per CT

    https://twitter.com/CianTracey1/status/1403325940688687109?s=19
    Sig.png



  • Options
    #7646
    lawrencesummers
    Registered Users Posts: 8,580 ✭✭✭lawrencesummers


    theVersatile wrote: »
    Squad out Monday per CT

    https://twitter.com/CianTracey1/status/1403325940688687109?s=19



    Zzzzzzzzzzeeeeeeeeeebbbbbbbbbzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz


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    #7647
    connachta
    Registered Users Posts: 7,965 ✭✭✭connachta


    lawrencesummers wrote: »
    Zzzzzzzzzzeeeeeeeeeebbbbbbbbbzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz


    No


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    #7648
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    I think Zebo would be a step backwards for the squad as a whole but on the other hand think of the **** storm if he did get selected. I'm torn.


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    #7649
    sprucemoose
    Registered Users Posts: 2,239 ✭✭✭sprucemoose


    Deleted User wrote: »
    I think Zebo would be a step backwards for the squad as a whole

    show your workings?


    having said that i think haley deserves a spot over him atm


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    #7650
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    sprucemoose wrote: »
    show your workings?


    having said that i think haley deserves a spot over him atm

    My research leads me to believe: He's fat and old


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    #7651
    b.gud
    Registered Users Posts: 4,808 ✭✭✭b.gud


    Let's for a second imagine that we all agree that Zebo should be in any Irish squad, I know this is obviously not something agreed upon but humor me for a second. Should Zebo be in this Ireland squad?

    This summer we have 2 games against tier 2 nations with a chance to give a lot of younger guys a chance in an Irish team to see what they can do. We have a really good idea of what Zebo can do on the international stage so we might not get a huge benefit from playing him against Japan/USA.

    The other thing is that Zebo will potentially be playing in France right up until the end of June so maybe it's better to give him the summer off and let him come back to Munster rested and ready to hit the ground running.

    With all that said I have no issue whatsoever if the coaches decide that he should be included in the squad


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