Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

I think we may end up with a Conor Murray type scenario at 10. Ross Byrne seems to have fallen slightly out of favour, Sexton is going to struggle to stay fit enough to play his brand of rugby in two years time. Carbery and Byrne both have issues keeping fit.

I suspect someone relatively inexperienced but obviously talented could force their way into the discussion late in the game given the state of play, similar to Murray at the 2010 world cup.

I don't know who that would be, but there is definitely a door open there for someone.

stephen_n

Crowley in Munster hopefully will step up this season but the RWC might come too soon for him. Playing behind Carberry and possibly Healy too. That will depend on JVG taking a risk on him.

awec

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117931837#Comment_117931837

I have no confidence in Carbery staying fit.

bilston

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117932151#Comment_117932151

Therein lies the problem.

If only Mike Lowry was 2 or 3 inches taller this could be a very different conversation.

Former Former Former

I think Carbery still has a fair bit to prove in terms of his ability as well his fitness.

Like, there's no denying his talent with the ball in hand, but whether he can translate that into being a real top-level out-half is still to be shown IMO.

awec

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117932186#Comment_117932186

2 or 3 inches taller and about 10kg heavier.

RichieRich_89

It would serve the IRFU right for not showing a bit of backbone if they went into the next World Cup with a Paddy Jackson-shaped hole in the team at outhalf.

I'm not convinced by Zoolander. Hopefully Harry Byrne can stay injury-free and progress. He looks to have a lot of quality.

aloooof

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117932213#Comment_117932213

I'd agree, but it's still to be shown for all the back-up 10's too. Ultimately, it'll come down to picking our next best after Sexton and I think Carbery is ahead of the others in that regard. I think bliston is spot on, it's a huge season for him.

OneLungDavy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117932231#Comment_117932231

I'd still back Lowry to make his tackles over Carbery.

theVersatile

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117932231#Comment_117932231

2 or 3 inches taller, about 10kg heavier, and capable of playing out half beyond a Pro14 level.

Lowrys future is in the back three - I don't get this obsession with trying to shoe horn him in at 10. He can fill a gap if necessary - but he should be focusing on 15.

bilston

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117932396#Comment_117932396

That's the complete opposite of what he should be doing.

Lowry is a 10 playing 15...make no mistake about that.

He played 10 against Toulouse for about 60 minutes in Toulouse last year and ran them ragged...that was definitely above Pro 14 standard.

Lowry played 10 all the way through school and at every level until he made his breakthrough with Ulster. He is a 10 before he is a 15.

Paul Smeenus

He's obviously on Farrell's radar, being called up to train with the international team.

Dubinusa

I think one issue that we have, is that there isn't much time to get lads integrated. O'Toole i.e, if he doesn't pick up caps against top level opponents, he will be found lacking if he's called up for a qf, imo.

It's similar for lads like Boyle and Deegan. Playing against the likes of the U.S does not benifit us. I think the upcoming series should be a blank canvas. At least v Japan.

I would go with a mix of seasoned veterans and new lads. Some thing like

EOS, Heffernan, O'Toole, Baird, Beirne, Boyle, Vdf, Coombes.

Blade, Carberry

Larmour, Hume, Ringrose, Balacoune

Addison

Subs. Byrne, Kelleher, Furlong, Ryan, Timoney, Casey, Lowry or HB, Conway.

I think getting minutes for the inexperienced is key. I would go for a mix for all these matches.

TRC10

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117934139#Comment_117934139

Now that Porter is a LH, O'Toole will be benching in the 6N at some stage in 2022 or 2023 so he'll get enough minutes.

Heffernan will be overtaken by Sheehan by 2023, and he's already 3rd choice behind Kelleher and Herring so I wouldn't worry about him.

Boyle and Deegan are so far down the pecking order it doesn't really matter. I'd be surprised if they're even in the squad for November.

Carbery, fitness permitting will be seeing plenty of minutes between now and 2023 with Sexton ageing and frequently injured. Ability is my concern for Carbery , not game time. He hasn't looked good since he's returned. Hopefully he hits the ground running this season.

Blade is probably 4th choice atm behind Murray, JGP and Casey.

I don't see much point investing in Addison as he can't be relied upon to be fit. But at the same time, we aren't stacked for 15s. Keep an eye on Jamie Osborne.

aloooof

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117934249#Comment_117934249

Prior to injury, Carbery had shown a higher ceiling than any of the alternatives. Game time and an injury-free run is the far bigger concern than ability with Carbery, imo. I’m not saying he’ll reach Sexton levels, but he’s comfortably our next best 10, imo.

He was coming off the back of practically 2 years with very little rugby so I think deserves the benefit of the doubt. I’m hopeful that with a full pre-season and a string of games injury-free, he’ll kick on.

TRC10

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117934392#Comment_117934392

I completely agree. Carbery was making a case to be starting at 10 prior to the 2019 6N.

But the key words there are "prior to injury". I thought he was really poor against Japan and the States in the summer and never really took control of games for Munster. His defence (which before the injury was excellent) has been awful.

I agree he should get the benefit of the doubt and I'm a massive Carbery fan, but he needs to hit the ground running this season.

If he stays injury free and finds form, he will be our 10 in 2023, I've no doubt about that.

Must love hardship

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117934249#Comment_117934249

Of the "top 4" scrumhalves you mention only one is starting this weekend.

(Murray was with the lions and is rested) but mcgrath starts as usual ahead of jgp and marmion is in ahead of blade..

I dont think JGP or blade will make the world cup squad in 23. Neither good enough.

Murray Casey and Doak/Mcgrath will be the 3 IMO

TRC10

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117934439#Comment_117934439

McGrath hasn't played one game under Andy Farrell. I don't even think he's been in a squad. So it's bold of you to state as fact that he'll be in his top 4 scrum halves in 2 years.

McGrath isn't ahead of JGP "as usual". JGP would have started pre season later than McGrath which is probably a factor in McGrath starting. They've actually shared the big games quite evenly over the last 2 years. I rate JGP over McGrath any day.

Must love hardship

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117934471#Comment_117934471

Going back to the Champions cup final v Racing mcgrath has started 15 champions Cup games and JGP has started a 3 and one of those was then mcgrath was unavailable. 2 of those starts were against poor Northampton sides when they were out of competition I believe.

I dont consider that sharing the Jersey.

To me It's one player being 1st choice and Captain of his team(when sexton is unavailable) and the other being number 2.

I'd say JGP has started more games for Ireland than H Cup games for leinster. But that is down to farrells poor selection policy.. I doubt JGP ever played 80 minutes before also until Farrell kept him on a few games in the 6 nations.

I think Mcgrath has an outside chance of being selected cos of his familiarity with potentially 2 of the outhalves who may be selected.. that and the fact that he generally starts 5 times more important games than JGP for leinster.......

armchaircoach

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117934531#Comment_117934531

JGP was kept out of a load of champions cup matches he would otherwise have played in by restrictions on foreign player numbers.

Him as McGrath is not solely a matter of form, Leinster had to consider the overall team dynamic.

Must love hardship

That restriction is gone since 2019.. Not an issue for the last 2 H cups. I'm not going to bother counting back how many games he stayed at home when Hugh o sullivan or nick Mccarthy deputised for him on the bench in the H Cup but feel free to...

Cookiemunster

The IRFU have announced that game in Las Vegas is off due to travel restrictions.

Sheep Shagger

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117934763#Comment_117934763

As reported by the Irish Times yesterday lol

armchaircoach

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117934688#Comment_117934688

Went ahead and did that:

Since the World Cup, he has played in every H Cup match for Leinster, apart from Exeter and La Rochelle at the end of last season, where he was unavailable due to a hamstring injury.

Must love hardship

So jgp started 2 from 10 or 11 games in the h cup Since the rugby world cup in 19? !, mcgrath started the other 8 or so..

RichieRich_89

Leinster prefer McGrath. Farrell prefers Gibson-Park. It's as simple as that really. Maybe Gibson-Park growing as a player due to international exposure will change the pecking order at Leinster in the future.

armchaircoach

It's clear that Leinster prefer McGrath to start. But JGP has not been deliberately dropped since 2019 whenever he has been available.

I also suspect that there is an element of Leinster prefering to use JGP to inject pace at the end of a match to capitalise on wearing out the opposition.

Must love hardship

Maybe.. Then again. Maybe jgp is an inferior player and the inexperienced head coach of Ireland got his original selection wrong..

Personally I don't see where jgp played well enough to deserve the number of international caps he has gained with 3 H cups starts in as many years.

Potentially Doak will pass both players out in the next few months. With cooneys hstring injury tonight he should get a run of games.

nerd69

Guy on boards saying Farrells decision is questionable because of his experience is interesting

Must love hardship

Just because he is head coach of Ireland doesn't make him infallible.

He chose mike catt as his attack coach.. not exactly an inspiring decision..