Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

Thrashssacre

1. Porter

2. Kelleher

3. Furlong

4. Ryan

5. Beirne

6. Coombes

7. VDF

8. Conan

9. Murray

10. Sexton

11. Stockdale

12. Aki

13. Henshaw

14. Balacoune

15. Keenan

16. Herring

17. Killer

18. Healy

19. Henderson

20. POM

21. McGrath

22. Carbery

23. Addison

Former Former Former

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118005517#Comment_118005517

He had his best season in years last year, 90% of it was at 12.

eagle eye

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118005131#Comment_118005131

Conan ahead of Doris and Deegan? He's behind both in my opinion.

TRC10

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118005622#Comment_118005622

Just goes to show how good he is.

Henshaw is obviously a really good 12 and has put in excellent performances there, but for me he's way better at 13.

His best performance in the 6N was when he played 13 v England.

His best performances for the Lions this summer (Japan and the 3rd test v SA) were both at 13. He played a few games at 12 and flattered to deceive.

He also was excellent in the 2020 6N playing 13

He's obviously going to play mostly at 12 for Leinster because they have Ringrose. And he's used as more of an outlet at Leinster, whereas when he's at 12 for Ireland he's used as a battering ram (which he's wasted as, and Aki is more effective in that role anyway)

Aki and Henshaw is 100% Ireland's best centre pairing for me. Ringrose has been out of form/injured for over a year now.

TRC10

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118005599#Comment_118005599

Maybe 2 years ago.

He's struggled with form and injuries for over a year now, in the meantime Henshaw has been putting in MOTM performances v England and starting Lions tests at 13.

Henshaw is currently Ireland's best 13. It's not even a debate for me.

awec

Henshaw is an excellent centre in both positions, he's very versatile, but it is blindingly obvious that Henshaw is a better 13 than 12, it's not really even a point of discussion any more. The only reason that it's even suggested he is a better 12 is because playing him at 13 means leaving out Ringrose. We can afford to leave Ringrose out though, Ireland are not so desperate for talent that we need to start shifting things around to try jam a few more good players into the starting lineup. Ringrose can compete with Henshaw for the jersey, good to have some competition for places.

At 12 Aki is the clear pick, and should anyone forget Aki Henshaw is a centre combination that started a Lions test (with Aki and Henshaw of course being the only Irish outside backs to even make the tour).

TRC10

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118005810#Comment_118005810

100% agree.

When you have a player as world class as Robbie Henshaw on your hands, you don't move him from his best position to accommodate a guy who has been bang out of form for a year.

It's not like we're lacking for international quality 12s

Former Former Former

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118005810#Comment_118005810

 The only reason that it's even suggested he is a better 12 is because playing him at 13 means leaving out Ringrose.

I think he's a better 12 because I think he's a better 12.

I think you play your best players in their best positions. Henshaw is our best centre and he's better at 12. Aki can do a fine job at 13, or we have Ringrose, Addison, whoever else.

TRC10

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118005871#Comment_118005871

Based on what?

All of his standout performances for Ireland since RWC 2019 (when he slimmed down and his upturn in form) have been at 13.

Wales 2020 6N

France 2020 6N

England 2021 6N

South Africa 3rd test

Japan for the Lions (depending on if you count that as a test match)

That's not to say he hasn't had good games at 12, but his "standout" performances have all come at 13.

Neil3030

Seems to be an Irish fella playing for the Sharks, Siyak O'Lisi. Maybe we get him involved in the squad and see what he can do.

AbusesToilets

Whatever else, if Murray starts at 9, we're on a hiding to nothing. Blade should be given the nod, with Doak on the bench. End of.

This talk of an OH crisis is so stupidly manufactured, it's obnoxious. We all know the solution, and it's not Carberry.

Dubinusa

Ringrose was the player of the year just last year. He's a great defensive leader and is probably our best ball carrier in the outside channel. Funny that he has an injury marred season and everyone writes him off!

Let's not forget Hume. A serious good prospect who is learning and young. I think he could be a bolter for the world cup squad!

Aki is getting on in age. He's 31. He may start losing a bit of his game soon.

aloooof

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118006082#Comment_118006082

Always gives me a chuckle when someone declares “End of.” on a… discussion forum.

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118006082#Comment_118006082

Pray share your wisdom on the 10 situation?

nerd69

I was thinking the same I have no idea who the obvious solution is 🤣

AbusesToilets

The outhalf sitting in purgatory in England.

nerd69

Ah the one that's never going to be picked so is irrelevant the obvious option

Former Former Former

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118005902#Comment_118005902

He was rivalling Beirne to be our best player across the entire 6N, playing mostly at 12. I thought he was one of the best Lions across the first two tests. He was MOTM in the Champions Cup QF over Exeter and he was outstanding in the Pro14 final.

There are plenty of great performances at 12 over the last year.

ersatz

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118005157#Comment_118005157

Agree about France, that's surely the game the ABs have their eye on given their home world cup approaching. But the 2 SA games showed that the way to beat the ABs is to disrupt their game as much as possible. Really fast line speed around the ruck, SA met them behind the gain line every time and pushed them back in a lot of those encounters, then 12/13 coming in hard to cut off the outside pass and forcing them to stay deep, then turnovers. For me Aki/Henshaw in the middle is a start. Mobile back row, Ill have Leavy x 3 but not sure he is ready, Conan's experience with the Lions is probably a big plus in his favour. Maybe Coombes. POM shows up in these oneoffs but maybe his ship has sailed. We need someone a lot quicker than Murray at 9, running threat with snappy passing off the base. There are a few of them putting their hands up and no real downside to giving one of the pretenders a start at nine. It's definitely worth the risk. I know Carberry didn't start in Chicago but came on to finish the game on debut. I know he hasn't kicked on as we'd have liked but it was a great move to push him into that game. It's obviously one to win but at least giving the youth a chance takes something from it if we lose.

TRC10

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118006093#Comment_118006093

Yeah exactly...A year ago

He's done f*ck all since then. Be that because of form or injury.

Nobody's writing him off, on his day he's a wonderful player and he may well find form again.

But it's not Andy Farrell's job to play him in the blind hope that he finds form, over starting test Lions who frankly have been playing far better for a long time.

So what if Aki is 31? He's still our best option at 12 with Henshaw at 13 and was a starting test Lion a couple of months ago.

aloooof

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118006393#Comment_118006393

Didn’t you plump for Casey at 9 ahead of starting test Lion, Conor Murray? It’s not the silver bullet you’re making it out to be, even by your own logic.

TRC10

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118006475#Comment_118006475

Casey has been playing really well and Ireland need a change at 9 in order to evolve our game.

It's not the same thing.

I never said it was a silver bullet, you're latching onto the mention of the Lions when there was far more to my argument than that.

Even if Aki wasn't picked for the Lions, I'd still have him and Henshaw starting

mfceiling

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118005758#Comment_118005758

Wait now. You're saying Max Deegan is ahead of the guy who started all 3 games for the Lions.

Ok.

Former Former Former

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118006393#Comment_118006393

Lol, he's actually the reigning Irish player of the year. Nah, f**k that, ancient history innit. Aki found himself dropped for the 6N because Ringrose was playing better than him, and then Ringrose had a pretty decent 6N. There was no question of Aki coming back into the team until Ringrose got injured.

You've an incredibly selective memory.

awec

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118006634#Comment_118006634

Did anyone suggest Ringrose wasn't good in 2020 when he was named player of the year? I mean, this was won based on performances in the world cup and up until summer 2020. Hardly relevant at all today.

Henshaw is Ireland's best 13 right now, in excellent form, fantastic every time he plays the position, so I propose we pick our best players in their best positions. Aki is our best 12.

TRC10

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118006634#Comment_118006634

Eh yeah it is ancient history. Unless we're picking the team based on 2020 performance, it's irrelevant.

Ringrose didn't have a decent 6N. He was ok v Wales, average v France and poor v Scotland. Aki's performance v England was better than anything Ringrose delivered.

Anyway, the argument here is, is Ringrose good enough to justify moving our best player (Henshaw) out of his best position (13)? The answer to that question without a shadow of a doubt, is NO. At least not currently.

Former Former Former

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118006646#Comment_118006646

Is it not relevant that he played well in the 2021 Six Nations?

I think Henshaw is both our best 12 and our best 13. I just think he's better at 12.

Couldn't agree more that we play our best players in their best positions. I don't honestly give a f**k who he's paired with. Pick who's playing best and go with that guy.

aloooof

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118006524#Comment_118006524

It was a large crux of your argument to the point you mentioned it twice, tho, but fair enough.

I think I’d largely agree with 12. Aki, 13, Henshaw in any case. Aki showed a level of passing against England that I don’t think we’d seen from him before and Ringrose had been very out of form last season.

Former Former Former

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118006695#Comment_118006695

So what you're saying is, 2020 performances don't matter, not only that, but ONE selection in 2021 - in which the guy got red carded - outweighs them all? I see.

Play Henshaw at 12, pick the supporting cast from there. Done.

TRC10

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118006762#Comment_118006762

Or..we play our best player in his best position which it's blindingly obvious is 13.

It's just baffling to me how anyone can actually think Henshaw's best position is 12.

I'm never going to understand it so we'll have to just agree to disagree and leave it there.