Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

molloyjh

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118037850#Comment_118037850

You need to stop this. Seriously. It isn’t happening and rightly so. All you’re doing is stirring.

molloyjh

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118037826#Comment_118037826

Nobody wants to persist with Sexton as the one and only option. But none of the other options are stepping up. That won’t change with Sexton gone. We’ll just have worse performances and worse results for no positive outcome. It would be dumb.

ersatz

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118037878#Comment_118037878

The coach should regard Sexton's availability as a bonus nice to have but not the main event. Are we going to get better performances from our WC tens if they get more or less playing time in the meantime? Nobody wants to persist with Sexton is irrelevant, the coach should know he CAN'T persist with Sexton. The November games are a good example, if we know 2 of the other tens will carry the next WC why would a coach start Sexton in any Nov games when the others need the coaching and game time as starters? We can debate the merits of the alternatives but Farrell has to choose, right or wrong.

UAEguy2020

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118037850#Comment_118037850

No, it’s an example of what can happen when you back a 10. If Sexton was fit for that SA tour we would never have known that Jackson was up to it.

UAEguy2020

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118037878#Comment_118037878

Because no option has been given a chance to step up, like I said if it wasn’t for Sexton’s injury we would have been saying the same things about Jackson… We’ll have worse performances while the new 10 beds in but for all we know it might be a case of short term pain, long term gain.

it’s taking calculated risks like this that could completely blow up in our face that separate’s RWC winners and semi finalists and RWC pretenders. Look at the last RWC, all the SF’s had issues in the year or 2 leading up to the RWC and each took all took risks to fix the problem and all reaped the rewards in 2019, we when we had a problem we persisted with the problem players, changed nothing and we got what our gutless and quite frankly cowardice actions deserved.

ersatz

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118037921#Comment_118037921

Jackson has not done any charity 5ks, has not been on the late lat show, swam the Channel, or guested on the sports shows. etc. There's been no pr effort at rehabilitation and he remains toxic across the board in Ireland. Let's just stop talking about it.

Not directed to you UAE, but to the toilets guy who keeps bring this up.

molloyjh

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118037911#Comment_118037911

I don’t think the guys who are there at the moment have either proven they are close to Test level (Harry Byrne, Healy etc) or they aren’t going to get any better than average (Carty, Burns, Ross Byrne). Giving the latter game time is a waste. They’re at their ceiling. Giving game time to the former may have merit, but you ease them into it. So have them in the squad and give them time off the bench to take a look at them. That’s exactly how you manage player development.

The only exception to the above is Carbery. His form at the moment is awful but he has a higher ceiling than Carty or Burns or R Byrne. He also has the experience that the likes of H Byrne and Healy lack. However I don’t think he’s a particularly great 10 myself.

So our options are waste more time with guys who won’t make the grade, focus on a player who is in awful form right now in the hope he refunds enough or continue to rely on Sexton as our starter as we develop younger lads who potentially have the higher ceiling we are looking for.

Dumping Sexton just makes us a worse team for the foreseeable, removes his positive influence with the young lads and gives us very little, if any, real benefit in the medium to short term.

TRC10

Somebody seriously needs to tell me who this player is who is going to magically transform into an elite test quality out half if he's thrust into the 10 jersey and "given a chance to step up"?

Seriously, who is this mystery player?

UAEguy2020

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118037951#Comment_118037951

I’m not going down that road, im

specifically talking about the 2016 SA tour and no more when it comes to him.

molloyjh

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118037932#Comment_118037932

Options get a chance to step up at provincial level. If you’re waiting until they play a few games at Test level before you know if they are able or not then you’re doing it wrong.

But why I’m debating with someone being so hyperbolic about cowardice and garbage like that I don’t know.

molloyjh

What I find be truly incredible about some of these posts is how they completely ignore the fact that Farrell left Sexton out during the summer specifically so he could focus on those behind him in the pecking order. He had done exactly what people want him to do already and yet is still getting crap in the basis that he might not do it again. It’s amusing.

TRC10

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118037964#Comment_118037964

Jackson was playing great rugby for Ulster for a long time before the SA tour.

Our backups now are nowhere near the level of Jackson in 15/16

Jackson didn't magically turn into a good out half in SA

UAEguy2020

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118037954#Comment_118037954

Well that’s the coaches fault for not getting the best out of them. The option of persisting with Sexton is guaranteed to blow up in our faces in 2 years time so the option is like I said be brave or be soft. None of the average 10s have ever been given a fair crack at the shirt either so I remain unconvinced about that part. The option now is pick two 10s (for me Carbery and Ben Healy) and persist with them and make sure they are up to scratch. I know Ben Healy isn’t expierenced but the bits and pieces I’ve seen from him I’m confident he can step up to the plate. Like I’ve said previously this is the part where we need to show some balls and stop making excuses and actually fix the problem.

UAEguy2020

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118037982#Comment_118037982

Is Ulster test rugby? It’s easy saying that in hindsight.

UAEguy2020

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118037982#Comment_118037982

Because it was a micky mouse tour. For me if Sextons fit I wouldn’t mind playing him versus the ABs but against the other 2 we need to back the other 10s. Pick afew 10s and persist with them to maximize their potential and game time for the next few seasons.

TRC10

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118037998#Comment_118037998

You're making no sense at all.

Of course it's hindsight. It was 6 seasons ago.

PJ was playing to a very high standard week in week out for his province prior to the SA tour.

That can't be said for any of the current alternatives.

So your theory that we can just chuck someone in like PJ in 2016, and they'll just come good, is nonsense.

Ulster isn't test rugby, but the fact he was playing well for Ulster meant he was more likely to make the step up. Healy or Byrne need to start playing well consistently for their province.

molloyjh

Also, Paddy Jackson got his debut in the 2013 6Ns against Scotland when he was still only 20. He is not an example of a guy who didn’t get a chance because of Sexton or conservatism. He just didn’t become first choice ahead of one of the best 10s we’ve ever produced.

UAEguy2020

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118038009#Comment_118038009

There’s the key word…playing, I never said chuck them in. I just said if our plan is to go to the RWC in 2023 with the hope our 38 year old 10 won’t be injured and have no plan if he is we might aswell not bother showing up, that’s what you’d expect from a tier 2 nation…

UAEguy2020

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118038011#Comment_118038011

Took him 3 years to get a chance, there’s the problem right there. Maybe a coach should plan for the chance our first choice 10 is injured.

molloyjh

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118037991#Comment_118037991

Ah, a players limitations are all the coaches fault. What brilliantly reductive nonsense. Because rugby players are like computer game characters that you can just level up if you do the right things.

It’s also amazing that coaches should pick players based on what you believe, and to help with the possibility of considering other perspectives, trying to balance out your own clearly imperfect opinions with the possible genuine motives and reasoning of professionals etc. The “bits and pieces” you’ve seen of Ben Healy means Farrell is a coward if he doesn’t select him. And that’s where we are on this forum now.

OneLungDavy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118037951#Comment_118037951

"Swam the channel", seriously? Do you honestly think RTE, OTB etc are willing to risk the social backlash of platforming his story?

UAEguy2020

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118038033#Comment_118038033

The players who have limitations are able to lead Leinster to a BP win in France and lead Leinster to a win in Exeter just last season, if they can do that they can lead Ireland.

Our track record at RWC’s has proven me right and we are falling into the same trap we always do. It’s all fart no poo, we talk about being prepared for the RWC but when it comes down to it we never are.

Never said that, he can still select Sexton just he needs to actually have a plan to give the alternatives minutes, not 3 minutes every game but 10-15 mins or around that plus the odd start or 2 consecutively.

not giving any of the options proper minutes is why we are in this position of relying on Sexton. Enough excuse it’s time to actually do something about the problem.

molloyjh

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118038030#Comment_118038030

You’re talking utter garbage. Having a back up 10 like Jackson IS planning for not having Sexton available. Farrell has looked at Carbery, Burns, Ross Byrne and Harry Byrne so is very, very, very clearly planning on finding a replacement for Sexton. Regardless of any of the BS you’re spouting about cowardice or whatever.

TRC10

Jesus christ, when the f*ck did Ben Healy become the messiah???

He's had one decent game against a Scarlets team who've conceded 50 points two weeks in a row.

molloyjh

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118038069#Comment_118038069

Ross Byrne has shown to be limited. Once he’s behind a pack that’s on top he is good but once he doesn’t have that then he struggles. I say that as a Leinster fan and a fan, at provincial level, of Ross Byrne.

Our track record at the RWC doesn’t prove your point at all. We’ve fallen foul at RWCs for different reasons almost every time.

Farrell has already given alternatives minutes, so I’m not sure why you’re calling him out for not doing something he has already done.

TRC10

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118038069#Comment_118038069

You're actually an idiot

He started Carbery in both games in July, when on form, he shouldn't have

He started Ross Byrne in Twickenham

He started Billy Burns against Georgia and against France

He's had Harry Byrne in the squad since day one and he capped him in the summer when he didn't deserve it on merit

And he's probably going to give Carty a chance in a few weeks

UAEguy2020

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118038072#Comment_118038072

Is it really planning? Giving a 10 scant minutes at 10 isn’t planning… I’m sorry but one again giving someone little to no minutes is NOT looking at someone, that’s why none of them have looked ready because why would they be? They need probably about 10 starts to really get the hang of international rugby, how many have been afforded that chance? If we get to the autumn and Sexton is playing 75 minutes versus Argentina then rest assured Farrell isn’t planning.

UAEguy2020

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118038074#Comment_118038074

Where did I say he was the messiah first and foremost?

And weren’t the media sucking Sextons cock because he kicked a cross field kick versus bloody Zebre? Talk about double standards.

Clegg

So...

How bout them Cowboys?

UAEguy2020

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118038092#Comment_118038092

Couldn’t those same accusations be laid at Sextons door? After all in 2019 when our pack went back at a rate of nots he was pretty useless, almost to the point where if any other 10 put in the same performance they would be deemed not test standard…

We’ve fallen for various reasons but all of them have the same route cause, we don’t prepare and ultimately we get found out as a result, our loss in 2019 versus NZL was almost a carbon copy of our loss versus Argentina which showed us that nothing had been learnt from 2015 and the way things are going right now nothing appears to be learnt from the 2019 meaning we’ll have the exact same conversation in 4 years time.

Well he needs to continue giving them minutes, simply crying that no other 10 is as good as Sexton and doing nothing about it doesn’t quite cut it. We need solutions not excuses, if no other 10 is on par with Sexton then back them even more and give them more time and hopefully they get to that level, it’s called taking a risk, something from an alien language to Irish fans and coaches it seems.