Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

molloyjh

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118043711#Comment_118043711

The problem with that is that 2 of the options have a really poor injury profile while also probably being the best options. So if you go with Carbery and then he’s injured for 6 months, then what. We need depth. Having 1 back up isn’t enough.

Dubinusa

Outside of Sexton we're fecked! None of the others inspire confidence. Carberry is way overrated imo. RB is not at the level. Carty is a very inconsistent performer and Burns doesn't take the place kicks.

I suppose the future will be Healy or Crowley or HB. But that is probably post 2023. I think it will say a lot about our stock if Carberry gets the starting spot.

I hope we go well this series. The goal should be developing depth in key positions. Crucially at oh.

molloyjh

I actually think at this stage we should all be hoping and praying that Sexton can stay fit and in some sort of form for 2023. The coaches can’t do that , but we aren’t the coaches. We simply don’t have anyone better than him and have seen nothing to suggest anyone we have will come close. Our best chance of a half decent RWC performance right now lies with having Sexton there. It’s a crap position to be in, but it’s where we are.

Lost Ormond

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118043814#Comment_118043814

Nonsense. Outside of Sexton we arent fecked. you cant say that none of the others inspire confidence. Carty is a bit inconsistent but the platform he would get behind an irish pack is very different to what he gets from Connacht most of the time. Burns not taking place kicks isnt an issue if you have Murray and others who can place kick.

Carbery is over rated how exactly?

It doesnt say a lot if Carbery is picked.

ersatz

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118042871#Comment_118042871

No surprise they've never been to semi final.

Dubinusa

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118043855#Comment_118043855

Carberry was allowed to leave Leinster! Was not rated like RB was. He hasn't really stepped up his game for Munster, bar a couple of games.

I rate Burns as the next choice after Sexton. I forgot he doesn't place kick. He is the most deserving of the next group. But the place kicking is an issue. Who knows if Murray will be in the squad in 2023?

Carty makes too many mistakes! Doesn't matter what pack he plays behind imo. He's just too inconsistent.

Imo, we are fecked.

UAEguy2020

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118043244#Comment_118043244

I didnt say he was deserved, but based on how he played for Ireland when he was playing for us he looked like he could step up, he didnt become that player sitting on the bench every game, he became that player because he was afforded the chance in SA and took it.

UAEguy2020

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118043290#Comment_118043290

Coming on against the US when we are 30-40 points up isnt going to prove much, he might as well start against Zebre in that case. The point is this needs to happen and there does need to be a serious focus on giving all these 10s enough game time so they can grow.

UAEguy2020

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118043608#Comment_118043608

The mind is willing but the body wont follow as they say. I do feel if we dont sort this issue out we will live to regret not backing the young 10s around now when we look back in 2 years time. Also no matter how fit Sexton is all it takes at 38 is the slightest knock and he could be out of the entire World Cup. We can bring 38 year olds if we want (SA brought Scalke Briz for instance in 2019) but they should be no more than a back up and ideally a squad player. We will find out this autumn if they have an eye on this issue, NZL is NZL so we should go all out in that but if Sexton is playing 60+ minutes against either Japan or Argentina then I would start getting concerned that the coaches arent looking to try fix these problems.

UAEguy2020

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118043749#Comment_118043749

No-one is saying drop Sexton ( I still don't know where you are getting this impression from). The plan is give other options reasonable minutes so they can grow into the shirt, Sexton even if you put ability aside is by default the best because he's the only 10 to get any decent minutes whatsoever against tier 1 nations.

We do know France were really struggling at 10 in 2017 and for the 2018 6N they threw in Mathieu Jalibert when he only had 15 appearances for Bordeaux (We would have never done this) and played Ntamack in 2019 when he wasn't even starting big games at 10 for Toulouse. Noone is saying drop Sexton but there has to be a plan in place where our other 10s are given a genuine chance to shine at test level and not just skeleton minutes here or there as that doesnt prove anything or show that player is up to it or not and it also doesnt help the player improve their game.

UAEguy2020

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118043359#Comment_118043359

Idk playing Carbery when he was injured to name one reason. Ross Byrne simply throwing him in two **** show Irish performances against England and then making Ross the scapegoat and ignore the fact that the pack was totally mauled, funny enough Sexton had a similar **** show performance against the same opposition in similar fashion...but on that occasion it was the packs fault...double standards much.

I wonder how a 10 is meant to learn how to control a game at test level when he never gets minutes against a proper team, its like people on here just expect these 10s to magically be born with the ability to run a game at this level, it takes 10-15 starts or meaningful appearances to learn this aspect of play.

Nah he's much more athletic than R.Byrne, he's not a running 10 like Carbery but I could definetly see him potentially emulating Sexton in some ways (He wouldnt be as athletic as Sexton but he isnt the sort of 10 that will just sit deep like Ross is criticised for either). He also did it against Harlequins and Glasgow (A) in the CC. Ive no doubt if we played him versus Argentina or Japan he would be able to step up, the only question would be if that works would he be able to step up for the Wales game in February?

molloyjh

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118044175#Comment_118044175

Thankfully we have the provinces for that. We don’t have enough game time or coaching time at Test level for that to happen in any meaningful way there. But I know you don’t have any interest in acknowledging that. Instead you’d rather spam the hell out of the forum in the hope people eventually give in.

UAEguy2020

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118043814#Comment_118043814

Well if we are fecked thats even more reason to take a risk and back the young 10s, simply saying we are fecked is just empty words when there is no actions being made to fix the problems.

If we are waiting til post 2023 to back one of HB or Ben our coaches are even more gutless then I thought...we have a problem at 10 NOW, not post 2023.

If thing blow up in 2023 we can't turn around and blame the situation at 10 after doing nothing about the position, simply giving player 2 starts in 2-3 years isnt doing something about it, we will have got knocked out of the RWC for the same reasons we got knocked out atleast in the previous 2 world cups, it will be because we didnt prepare ourselves well enough. Must say, putting all our eggs in the basket that our 38 year old 10 will be fit must be the most gutless plan of all the RWC's we have been in, even countries like Scotland would laugh at that idea...

TRC10

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118044211#Comment_118044211

Ok there are so many falsehoods in this post.

We do know France were really struggling at 10 in 2017

They really weren't. They had Lopez, who is a very good 10 and would probably start for us right now. 10 was the least of their issues in 2017.

for the 2018 6N they threw in Mathieu Jalibert when he only had 15 appearances for Bordeaux

Yep and then he got injured in his 1st game and didn't get capped again for 2 years...WHEN HIS PERFORMANCES FOR HIS CLUB WARRANTED IT.

played Ntamack in 2019 when he wasn't even starting big games at 10 for Toulouse.

Yep, and it went exactly as you'd expect it would. They lost 3 from 5 and finished 4th.

Why do you want us to copy the French? They've won f*ck all since 2010. We've won three 6 Nations including a GS. Would that not suggest our way of doing things is better?

UAEguy2020

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118043837#Comment_118043837

Well I would waste my time hoping as you will be disappointed, that gutless plan is just as bad as the two previous RWC's and the World Cup will go the exact same way as those tournament went. We have seen anyone because we havent played anyone enough to know, no our best chance at a half decent RWC performance is backing one of the young pups.

Right now all you are doing is making excuses already, if know now 2 years out that we have a problem to fix and if that problem isnt fixed then the cause of our failure in France will be going to the RWC under prepared just like the last 2 tournaments.

UAEguy2020

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118043975#Comment_118043975

We are fecked due to our lack of preparation more than the issues at 10. We know the problem so if it isnt fixed then those who knew the problem with any sort of power and didnt fix the problem are too blame namely the coaches.

Dubinusa

I agree we should give someone other than Sexton the reins this autumn. Except for the NZ match. But there's nobody showing any kind of form atm! Who plays? RB? Carberry? Both have shown so little so far!

UAEguy2020

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118044288#Comment_118044288

If Lopez was Irish we would say he isnt test standard, and no he really isnt. And no he really wouldnt. You're talking **** if you think 10 wasnt their big issue, it was undoubtedly their big issue.

And what's you're point on Jelibert? The point is France had the balls to back him in the first place, if he was Irish he would be lucky to make a squad would probably never got into the match day squad.

Except if you actually watched France you would see that Ntamack was actually one of the few positives to come from that 6N, it was France just being **** that meant they lost 3 out of 5 matches.

Im not saying copy France, im saying take a leaf out of their book, look at how rosey things are at 10 for them now after taking that calculated risk, they have 2 top 10s for the next decade, maybe if he grew some balls and did something similar with Ben or Harry we might be in the same boat come 2023, only our 10s are arguably more ready to step up to test level then Jalibert and Ntamack were in their debut season.

UAEguy2020

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118044253#Comment_118044253

Only we dont because line speed, defences, the amount of space at test level is different level to anything the Irish players would face at club level. We do, we have 2 test matches this autumn that the players can get their game time. If you don't want to talk to me about this just leave then.

UAEguy2020

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118044311#Comment_118044311

Like ive said, Ben, Harry or Joey. Those are the main 10s who I feel have potential to really improve between now and 2023. Ross and Billy are the sort of 10s that will improve but maybe not to the extent required that they would be worth giving game time too.

TRC10

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118044336#Comment_118044336

If Lopez was Irish we would say he isnt test standard

Yeah nah

TRC10

And what silverware do France have to show for all their ballsy selections?

That's right, none

molloyjh

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118044311#Comment_118044311

Sexton needs to play vs Japan. He hasn’t been involved with Ireland in over 7 months. We can’t just expect to play an experimental side vs Japan and then expect the first choice guys to come back in firing on all cylinders for the NZ game.

Former Former Former

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118044175#Comment_118044175

and there does need to be a serious focus on giving all these 10s enough game time so they can grow.

You want to give them ALL game time? How is that even possible? Spoiler: it isn't.

Podge_irl

I see your plan now is that Ireland should magic up a flyhalf as good as Ntamack.

Ireland have put a lot of time and effort into Jackson, who is gone, and then Carbery, who is frequently injured and now out of form. They have rushed through Harry Byrne and already capped him but he too is now frequently injured.

Burns is the best investment for now, but Ross Byrne and Jack Carty are never, and were never, going to be good/consistent enough for it to matter. Doesn't matter how much gametime they got or get in the future. I can tell this about Byrne just from seeing him at Leinster, I suspect Farrell knew it a long time before me.

salmocab

Is there a board’s competition for most posts in a week?

UAEguy2020

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118044412#Comment_118044412

Name me some moments that showed he was a good test 10?

UAEguy2020

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118044424#Comment_118044424

They have 2 top young 10's for the next decade. The aim for giving these 10s game time at a young age was that they would have two great young players for the future, so based on that they have succeeded. Them not having a trophy is down to other problems in their team.

UAEguy2020

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118044444#Comment_118044444

Sexton has already played this season, we dont need to waste valuable test minutes on him.

UAEguy2020

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118044536#Comment_118044536

Because you play them all in different games, pretty self explanatory surely.