Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

molloyjh

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118065414#Comment_118065414

He really isn’t. As people have been repeatedly saying here, he can be fantastic at times. The problem is he can be awful others. He hasn’t disproven that this season. Connacht as a whole haven’t either. But people will see what they want I suppose. It was only a couple of weeks ago when people were lamenting his performance against Dragons. And let’s not forget the Cardiff game. I’ve never seen a side refuse to win a game as much as Connacht did that day. And Carty was at the heart of that.

Former Former Former

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118065300#Comment_118065300

Ah shtop. Whatever about Doak, Crowley has one pro start in his life.

We already have novice players at 9 and 10 in the national squad. Should we maybe give them a go first?

AbusesToilets

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118065429#Comment_118065429

I'd take a player who can reach a high versus one that's terminally average. Carty's inconsistency can be compensated for, with coaching and systems. Sure ROG was covered for his entire career, because of the upside to his game. Carty is better right now than Carberry, he's better than both Byrnes and better than Burns.

Far too much dross in the panel at the moment, most of it from Munster tbh.

Jump_In_Jack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118065447#Comment_118065447

Development players obviously.

they will not be doing much at their provinces over the Autumn Internationals so no harm to bring them in for a taste of it.

it’s so obvious that those two are extremely talented, or do you need to see 50 games before you can spot talent?

sydthebeat

Don't even know why we bother having a senior team. We should just play our u20s

molloyjh

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118065473#Comment_118065473

Except you can’t compensate for Carty the same way we could for ROG. We always knew what ROG brought from week to week. That isn’t the case for Carty. The problem is we don’t know what he will do from week to week. You can’t compensate for that. And I think you’re forgetting that the game has moved on substantially over the last 10 years or so anyway.

The simple fact is that Carty is a senior player at Connacht. He’s also their pivot. If anyone should be setting and demanding standards it’s him. But he isn’t. The fact that he can do some nice flashy stuff every now and again isn’t a reason for him to be playing Test rugby.

joedamuss

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118065085#Comment_118065085

I agree totally, were way too conservative, in NZ if you're good enough you're old enough, it'll be too late next November to blood these guys for the world cup, same old same old.

Jump_In_Jack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118065528#Comment_118065528

Yes, cause you would find that the logical corollary given your level of comprehension.

molloyjh

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118065655#Comment_118065655

The exact problem we have right now is that nobody is good enough so that might sound like a great line, but it’s utterly irrelevant to where we are right now.

Former Former Former

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118065509#Comment_118065509

This is Shiny New Thing syndrome gone to pathological levels.

Again, one professional start. You might think he's a once in a generation talent but Munster would appear not to agree.

You can't bring everyone into national camp who might benefit from the experience because you'd end up with a hundred guys at every session.

stephen_n

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118065655#Comment_118065655

Great, now name all these players that NZ bring in with little or no professional game time under there belts? I’ve a feeling this will be an incredibly short list.

CMcsporty

Carty: He’s not for Andy Farrell. Never been given a chance. Billy Burns was his guy.

Move on.

https://www.rte.ie/sport/united-rugby-championship/2021/1022/1255300-michael-bents-rocky-irish-start-had-a-perfect-ending/

Good article. Honest assessment of his level and the impact of switching back and forth from TH to LH and back again.

Raises a few points in my mind.

1.

Healy and Porter switching farce.

Leave Porter at TH. Short sighted again from Farrell.

The benefit is completely made redundant the minute Furlong gets injured. Or leaves for France......

Porter, Kelleher, Furlong would be a force of nature and yet detrimental to our depth.

2.

Sheehan, just like Kelleher, looked made for International rugby within a few appearances for Leinster.

I wonder about his height. believe it’s all relative to your props but is he just that bit too tall for international srummaging?

Jump_In_Jack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118065716#Comment_118065716

There are nowhere near a large number of hugely talented players coming through and well you know it.

If those two remain injury free from now until the next World Cup I fully expect them to be in the squad.

Same as I predicted with Baird and Ahern a while back.

That’s my prediction, I’ll leave it at that.

pickarooney

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118065086#Comment_118065086

We could adjust our game plan to be based more around the 9.

sydthebeat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118065850#Comment_118065850

The 9 that is preprogrammed to box kick and lacks a running game, or the nine that isn't playing rugby a wet week, or the nine that is find it hard to get into his own teams big games?

Dubinusa

Burns was atrocious yesterday! Awful. Carty was ok, miss 2 or 3 place kicks. RB was also decent

After Sexton, the cupboard is bare lads!

RichieRich_89

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118065473#Comment_118065473

I'd be far more optimistic about Ireland's chances against the All Blacks if Carty was starting at stand-off than I would be with any of Zoolander, Ross Byrne or Billy Burns.

Hopefully Harry Byrne can stay fit and become Sexton's understudy for the international team.

UAEguy2020

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118065188#Comment_118065188

We haven’t though, the way we have gone about fixing the issues at 10 is not what a team that wants to fix the issues does. What should have happened was during the 2020 autumn was Burns or Byrne starts the game versus Wales and England with his alternative getting 20 mins in both and then the alternative gets the start versus Georgia. The way we went about it was starting Sexton (a waste, if you aren’t going to back another 10 in this game when are you?) and then randomly throwing Byrne in against England with such a rudderless side and then it’s a surprise to absolutely no one that **** hit the fan as a result. There needs to be a genuine plan when doing this, we don’t appear to have any transition plan whatsoever for the 10 shirt, it’s hardly a coincidence that this is the main issue depth wise in our squad.

AbusesToilets

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118065635#Comment_118065635

I think Carty's inconsistency is wildly overstated. It's amazing how the same charge doesn't get leveled against players who are in garbage form. At this stage it's practically a meme, up there with Unseen Work.

Fact is he's playing better than anyone not named Sexton. The Munster halfbacks are entirely represented despite being in terrible form. It's ludicrous frankly.

Utopia Parkway

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118065429#Comment_118065429

At least he can be fantastic at times. Some of the others haven't even proven that much yet. Obviously his face doesn't fit with Farrell and that's probably that for his international chances but there is just no way there are 3, 4 or even 5 better players in his position playing at the moment. I'm not sure how many Farrell has in front of him at present.

aloooof

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118066179#Comment_118066179

Murray got his first 20 mins of the season just last night, and Craig Casey has been in good form, so I don’t know how you’re coming to this conclusion.

joedamuss

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118065759#Comment_118065759

God where do I start, I'll name 3 stand outs, Jonah Lomu age 19, John Kirwin age 19 and Rieko Ioane also 19 and I know for a fact there's many more, we just haven't got the guys to take a chance on youth

joedamuss

Guts not guys.

aloooof

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118066222#Comment_118066222

This place really is parody of itself at times.

Yeah_Right

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118066222#Comment_118066222

Well of course Kirwan and Lomu had no professional rugby experience when they made their test debuts. Rugby wasn't professional.

JK was an absolute freak back in the day. Also Lomu was dropped after his first 2 tests because he was awful. He was sent away to learn his trade for a year. Ioane had at least a year of pro rugby behind him and had spent a few months in the AB squad before taking the field.

gallyind

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118066204#Comment_118066204

i dont see the hype around casey...

Munster have a real issue overstating their players,

A few years back they took keatley from connacht and the locals just h=gave out about him

then carbury, same thing....

The reality is Munster just arent that good, An ahern gets brought into the national squaud, while a Conn @nd row who was outstanding and former Irish U20, dosent even get a look in, even thou he is playing week in vs out.

molloyjh

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118066179#Comment_118066179

Some people don’t seem to understand the difference between form and consistency. We know Carbery, for example, can put together a string of performances that will suffice at Test level. We don’t know that about Carty because he can’t put together a string of performances at league level. So we’ve chosen to invest in the younger player that we know can teach the required level consistently as opposed to the older player who can blow hot and cold. It’s far from a crazy decision. It’s actually quite a sensible one.

molloyjh

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118066199#Comment_118066199

Yes, but selection needs to have one eye on the RWC. If Carty is deemed to not be good enough to be a long term option for Ireland then he shouldn’t be selected. Because if he were we’d be pissing away game time on him that someone else could be getting.

Did he play well this weekend? Yes (although he missed an absolute sitter that I don’t think any of the others would have missed). Has he played well in other games this season? Yes. Has he contributed to Connacht losing games this season? Yes. Does he set standards at the club? No. There’s a lot of downside to go with the upside. And no sign that this will change. So we need to invest in someone else.

TomsOnTheRoof

I thought it was the format change that screwed this place but it wasn't. It's the lack of modding. Trolling and provincial baiting have ruined any kind of discussion.

Former Former Former

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118066539#Comment_118066539

Are you suggesting Farrell is picking players based on supporters' hype?

Ahern isn't even in the squad proper, he's there as a development player.