Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

molloyjh · 02-11-2021 11:49am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118105837#Comment_118105837

Ah the auld black or white, right or left, all or nothing polar BS. I call people out for moaning all the time and about things that might not even happen and that gets equated to saying people are never allowed to ever moan.

People can moan and have opinions. Of course they can. I do. Moaning [i]all the time[/i] and/or moaning about things that haven’t even happened and/or moaning about almost every aspect of things (“that selection is crap because youth”, “that inexperienced selection performed crap” etc etc) which suggests that the coaches simply can never win. That’s not the same thing.

This forum has been dominated recently by people spending the vast, vast majority of their time moaning, taking pot shots at coaches, taking pot shots at players and even in one case actively hoping a person loses their job. It’s been relentless and joyless and at times pretty pathetic. And the level of context that gets ignored in order to facilitate that behaviour has been utterly crazy. It’s already driven a number of long time posters away from the forum. It’s going to drive others away too. Just so this place can become another 42 comments section of whinging and moaning. I’m sorry if I’m not happy with the near complete collapse in the quality of the discussion here. But hey, that’s my opinion and I’m entitled to it I suppose.

Former Former Former · 02-11-2021 11:50am

Two things happened yesterday.

1. Ireland called up a pacy winger who's scoring lots tries but has only played five games since he landed in the country.

2. An Internet poster didn't understand the difference between 'possible' and 'probable'.

Then today, we have a load of people ignoring the first but seizing on the second to have another cut off the national coach for being conservative, even though the guy is capping new players and cutting dead wood faster than any of his predecessors.

It is utterly bizarre. I also find myself asking why people don't just limit themselves to complaining about things that actually happen but invent ludicrous hypotheticals and then get even more angry about those.

I just wonder why people do it to themselves.

molloyjh · 02-11-2021 11:59am

One thing that did make me happy today was the new heritage jersey. I like it. I like it a lot.

https://www.elverys.ie/Elverys/Christmas/Christmas-Featured/Christmas-Irish-Rugby-Range/Canterbury-IRFU-2003-Heritage-Jersey-Grn/p/000000000001118071_GREEN?feefologon=www.elverys.ie%2Ftesting&givexIframeUrl=https%3A%2F%2Fwwws-uk1.givex.com%2Fcws%2Felverys%2Fconsumer%2Fclp%2Fmy_cards.py&feefoMerchantIdentifier=elverys-sports-testing&siteName=Elverys+Ireland&siteUid=elverys

phily2002 · 02-11-2021 12:00pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118106060#Comment_118106060

Lol do tell the big difference in this case between possible and probable. MK isn't guessing at the team. He's been given a heads up from someone in camp at how training is going and what the team is shaping up as. A lot can change and it could be totally different, I think everyone knows this. Would it have made any difference if I said "possible team". People would still give their opinion on it.

But deepest apologies for mixing up the words. I hope it hasn't caused you too much anger lol

arsebiscuits1 · 02-11-2021 12:04pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118106060#Comment_118106060

Your last sentence is bang on.

Not only are people just pure determined to find negatives in absolutely everything, they defend the negativity by saying its "just their opinion"

Someone whose actively trying to opine such negative thoughts constantly and complain about it all just kinda wears me down. Hence rarely posting or scrutinising this thread.

It's just not good for me. I work hard to keep myself in a good mental state and there's people in here that just wear me down. It's why I stopped visiting the Ireland subreddit too.

It appears the intersection on the Venn Diagram of "Irish forum posters" and "people who find flaws in everything and moan about it" is extremely large....

Life is short folks, it's only rugby, try smile see some good in things. Your mental health will thank you :)

TRC10 · 02-11-2021 12:06pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118106055#Comment_118106055

I call people out for moaning all the time

So you're the arbiter of what constitutes too much moaning and will call people miserable and unhappy when you don't feel the moaning is warranted.

The coaches can win, as you well know because I was on your side backing Farrell when UAEguy was calling him a gutless coward

molloyjh · 02-11-2021 12:08pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118106109#Comment_118106109

Reading the article in the 42 I think he pretty much is guessing. The way he was phrasing the article didn’t sound anything like some form of inside track. It was just an educated guess from him I reckon. He’s probably not far off of course, as I said this needs to be the warm up for next week. Otherwise next week becomes a complete waste of time at best and a massive issue for our development and consistency at worst. Farrell still has to manage the squad beyond also managing our depth and upcoming talent.

Former Former Former · 02-11-2021 12:11pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118106109#Comment_118106109

Nah, you're doing the classic social media shuffle of someone pointing out your mistake and instead of saying, "oops sorry", you're digging your heels in.

It's an anonymous internet forum. There is no face for you to lose by admitting a mistake.

It didn't cause me any anger at all btw, but it certainly riled up a lot of other posters.

aloooof · 02-11-2021 12:12pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118106109#Comment_118106109

Well, if you do the lotto, do you think it's probable that you'll win? Or possible that you'll win?

molloyjh · 02-11-2021 12:16pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118106136#Comment_118106136

I never said my post applied to you though. I never mentioned anyone specifically in it at all. I’m making a general point about the state this place is in at the moment. As AB1 said, this place is just wearing people down. A lot have left already. More will leave. And this was one of the few places left for reasonable discussion. I’d like if we didn’t lose that.

Some people are far more guilty of the behaviour I mentioned than others. But I’m not going to start singling people out or grouping people into “misery categories” or anything like that. We all could do with checking ourselves every once in a while to make sure we aren’t falling into that pattern of behaviour. It’s all too easy to do (I’ve been guilty of it myself) and it’s become completely normalised on the internet. But it’s f-ing toxic as well as being completely pointless. It’s not like it changes anything.

aloooof · 02-11-2021 12:17pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118106130#Comment_118106130

It's a shame, tho. There are posters who's opinion I would have valued that pretty much never post here now. I largely put it down to the absence of modding since the change over. There's plenty of stuff that previously would've been infracted, which might've nipped the worst of it in the bud. I'm expecting it to be even worse once the AI's kick off.

Incidentally, does anyone know if the modd-ing functionality is likely to be back any time soon?

molloyjh · 02-11-2021 12:19pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118106168#Comment_118106168

Eh, probable, obviously. Every time I do the massive Euromillions jackpot I know I’m going to win it. It doesn’t matter what happened last time.

phily2002 · 02-11-2021 12:21pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118106144#Comment_118106144

Agree that he'll use this for a warm up for NZ. I think he'll use the Argentina game to try a couple of things but a NZ scalp will be his main target. NZ are getting a lot of praise but I think it's a game we can definitely win. I don't think they're as strong as past NZ teams.

Yeah maybe Kinsella is guessing but he's done previous articles like this and been very accurate with his team. I should have said possible team but don't think it would have made any difference to the chat. But at least it gave a couple of posters something to moan about lol

aloooof · 02-11-2021 12:22pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118106201#Comment_118106201

This is exactly the kind of optimism we could do with around here!

phily2002 · 02-11-2021 12:31pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118106161#Comment_118106161

It's quite clear I used the wrong word but again would the chat have been any different if I said possible?

Your going on like people wouldn't have moaned about the team if that was the case which I beg to differ

But here you go

"Oops sorry everyone for getting the word wrong"

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118106168#Comment_118106168

Money I spend on it I'd go with probable!

nerd69 · 02-11-2021 1:03pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118105353#Comment_118105353

Sure same could be said for the likes of balpucoune, Coombes, frailty,doak to be fair. I'm not saying we should throw them in at all but to say you learn nothing is not true

Edit:frawley

aloooof · 02-11-2021 1:16pm

Frailty? Is that Carbery's new nickname? ;)

Former Former Former · 02-11-2021 1:17pm

Team I'd like to see vs NZ;

Porter Kelleher Furlong

Ryan Henderson

Beirne Conan VDF

Murray Sexton

Larmour Aki Ringrose Baloucoune

Keenan

Herring, Healy, Bealham, Baird, Doris, Casey, Carbery, Zebo

I think we'd learn plenty from that side and still be competitive.

Must love hardship · 02-11-2021 1:28pm

The actual team won't be out until Thursday so yesterday was a bit too early for Murray to have the exact team. I'm sure he will have at least 90% idea of it tomorrow evening

Yesterday he might have seen training and who was taking reps.

Alternatively the 42 makes money by clicks so putting in a few bombs on the team automatically draws more traffic to the comments section.

I think we all know the team for Japan will be at close to full strength. And In a number of positions there is not a lot between players.

Any 3 of Bierne, Ryan and Henderson could be picked in second row.

Any of the players in the squad could start in the in multiple combinations in the back row.

Its a pity the US game was called off last weekend. It think if that game had gone ahead we would have had a number of combinations tried out over the 2 matches.

I'm suprised when that game was called off the IRFU didn't organise a 4th game even for a "wolfhound" team this weekend to get additional game time into players.

Maybe they tried and failed?

With no URC games oncurrently An original squad of 45 or so could have been announced for 2 weeks and then reduced down to 35 or so after this weekend for the last 2 games

bilston · 02-11-2021 1:54pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118106545#Comment_118106545

It isn't an ideal time in the season to have such a prolonged break. We're only 5 weeks in and the non internationals are getting a month off and the bulk of the Ireland 1st XV have probably only played 2 or 3 games at most, some Lions have played considerably less than that.

Yeah_Right · 02-11-2021 1:58pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118105902#Comment_118105902

I agree. Couple of youngsters in the forwards and a couple more in the backs. See how they go.

Start Kelleher and Doris or Coombes (have the other on the bench). Start either JGP and Byrne or Casey and Sexton. Have the other combo on the bench. Start Hume in midfield or Balacoune on the wing. If they perform ok against the ABs they're ready for the 6 Nations.

UAEguy2020 · 02-11-2021 2:06pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118105316#Comment_118105316

Andrew Porter
Ronan Kelleher
Tom O'Toole
Ryan Baird
James Ryan
Tadgh Beirne
Josh van der Flier
Jack Conan
Conor Murray
Joey Carbery
Simon Zebo/James Lowe
Ciaran Frawley
Garry Ringrose
Robert Balacoune
Hugo Keenan

Bench (1 = 16, 8 = 23)

Rob Herring
Cian Healy
Tadgh Furlong
Iain Henderson
Caelan Doris
Craig Casey
Jonathan Sexton
Bundee Aki

Simply put out 70-75% of the first team as like its been said here get them minutes before NZL but also through in some youngsters to see how they fit in to the match day environment. On the bench fill it with first team players who also need minutes which should give Ireland a huge advantage in the final 20 if needed.

UAEguy2020 · 02-11-2021 2:07pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118105931#Comment_118105931

We are but I seriously worry if we are going into this game playing Sexton when its clear we have real problems at finding his replacement. When you struggle in a position it doesnt mean you sit back and do nothing and hope the problem fix's itself, it means you go out there and fix the problem. If we have problems at 10 then use the Japan and Argentina games to look at the alternatives.

bilston · 02-11-2021 2:18pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118106749#Comment_118106749

Aye well I agree to an extent on Sexton. I'd be surprised if he is involved against Argentina and I dont think he will play 80 mins against either Japan or NZ so Carbery will keep game time and probably a start, and Byrne will hopefully get a good half hour against Argentina.

aloooof · 02-11-2021 2:33pm

I don't have an issue if he wants to start Sexton here, with a view to the NZ game, but I hope whoever is on the bench gets a good 25+ minutes. Part of the problem tho is if he intends for Murray to start vs NZ, then I think he's a cert to start here as he's only played 21 mins all season.

I think I'd prefer to see Murray/Carbery with Sexton getting 20 odd mins off the bench.

TRC10 · 02-11-2021 3:12pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118106879#Comment_118106879

But is it really worth sacrificing valuable minutes for Carbery, just to gain a slightly better chance of beating NZ in an ultimately meaningless game, when beating them is already highly unlikely?