Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

UAEguy2020

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118116981#Comment_118116981

And 6 played who will be 30 by the RWC on top of that. And thats ignoring the bench which potential has Healy, Herring, O'Mahony, Murray, Earls etc

starkid

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118116707#Comment_118116707

Because clearly we are making the same mistakes as we have done in past World Cups. we are leaving ourselves with zero room to adapt.

Lowe doesn't deserve a start. He's 29 its hardly blooding him. Conway the same, and out of form. Porter was chosen for the Lions. Ditto with Conan.

You're intentionally muddying the waters, and somehow getting thanks for such a stance.

People take issue with the planning in certain positions.

All of the players bar Lowe people have little issue with. JGP isn't good imo but he'll have to do.

Its all moot as we will be hammered by NZ as the lads just don't have enough rugby under their belts and there is a dearth of quality in key positions. SO you might as well use the Japan and Argentina game to mix it up. again you are talking about some switches and bench options, not reinventing the wheel here.

He's doing more damage than good by focusing on the NZ game. People would give him a pass if he took a long term view.

Once again, an utter waste of an Autumn series. It was criminal in the NAtions cup, now its just careless.

Like the World Cup in Japan, the best thing that can happen this setup and Irish rugby in general is a defeat on Saturday and a mullering against NZ. its the only way to wake some people up.

There's no helping you if you can't see that this is a conservative selection at 9,11,14 and bench. We're backed into a corner with Sexton so you have to pick him as he hasn't played enough rugby. But its utterly stupid heading into another World Cup with a 38 year old captain and key player and decision maker. It would be funny if it wasn't so depressing.

And if this is the side and they underpeform in their first SH battles, well i think it is probably time to reassess. Huge tests for Keenan, Doris, Ryan and Ringrose. The former need to keep proving it and the latter need to stop the rot against the top top tier.

This could be an utter train wreck of a season as the Farrell era inevitably peters out.

lawrencesummers

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118117296#Comment_118117296

I dont think we are playing a bunch of pensioners, but we certainly are playing a few and most notably in the most pivotal position in the park.

I dont have any problem with sexton going to France in 2023, but having an understudy who hasnt started 15-20 games at international level means that sexton hasnt been challenged and the backup isnt ready.

UAEguy2020

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118116819#Comment_118116819

They were just promoted to tier 1 but they are a new tier 1 so arent exactly the pinnacle tier 1 nation yet.

UAEguy2020

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118117327#Comment_118117327

We are playing a bunch of pensioners. Earls, Sexton, O'Mahony, etc. If Sexton goes to France it shows we havent learnt anything from previous RWC's and will fail the same way. How many of those players have got consistent game time at 10? Ill tell you, 0 have. If none are getting game time none will ever be in a position to challenge Sexton, simple. Someone needs to grow a pair of balls and actually realise that and give someone else a run.

aloooof

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118117322#Comment_118117322

“He's doing more damage than good by focusing on the NZ game. People would give him a pass if he took a long term view.”

This is occasionally rolled out here and honestly, given some of the commentary we see around international windows, I don’t see how anyone thinks that would be the case.

aloooof

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118117348#Comment_118117348

You really seem to love a genitalia-based analogy.

starkid

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118116950#Comment_118116950

what credit has Farrell earned? he's played a few new guys. so what?

Credit needs to be earned. There is huge apathy about this Irish set up and its not going to get any better unless there is a serious change in these tests.

starkid

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118117383#Comment_118117383

you constantly say this but take a look at any other number of forums or comment sections. If he beat JApan and Argentina blending both an improvement in style and selection, people would most definitely give him a pass. to say otherwise is just preverse. NZ is a one off, anything can happen. Win and your heroes, but lose and nobody will be calling for heads. they are what they are, rugby's globetrotters. the other thing is the IRFU would back him. they've backed him thus far. We owe Farrell nothing. we gave him his first head gig. he has everything to prove.

The other two games are what defines the Farrell era, and he's failing once again if this is the selection.

anyway at this point who longer cares. these lads are paid big money and they are repeating the exact same mistakes as before. the powers that be clearly don't give a damn, so why should we.

It will be a win on Sat, but i suspect a tight match. NZ will hammer us. And Argentina will then be treated as redemption so another game is wasted. do we ever learn?

aloooof

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118117395#Comment_118117395

Farrell hasn’t done brilliantly. But he hasn’t done awfully either. Some only want to concentrate on one side of that equation.

A win against NZ would probably put him above par so I can understand why he wants to target that game.

UAEguy2020

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118117391#Comment_118117391

And?

starkid

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118117429#Comment_118117429

yeah i get it in the sense that Af wants to make a mark. like we aren't dumb. but its why some of us are annoyed as most here would accept a NZ win playing the same side, the same turgid way, while huge, would leave us no better than in Japan. its typical irish short terminism.

the sky won't fall in if we lose to NZ. and people have copped on that these victories, while great, mean little in the long term. We have three world cups as evidence.

you can sense the apathy about Irish rugby in the air. people are tired of some of it. the hype about soem players, the conservatism, the inconsistency, the turgid, preverse, playing style going on near 5 years.

anyway as i said before Af won't last till the World Cup. it was a stupid appointment given his lack of experience, and he will be found out. I wouldn't be shocked to see POC somehow get caretaker, which he won't be ready for. but people would probably get behind him.

We needed an experienced head coach. Not a hangover from the failure of Japan.

crossman47

Why all this focus on the next WC? The draw ensures this time we won't get past the quarter final. Instead concentrate on what we could win like the Six Nations or even a grand slam.

aloooof

One interesting additional wrinkle is that with the more competitive nature of the URC vs previous incarnations, it gives other players (thinking the likes of Carbery here) more opportunities to play themselves into some decent form which he clearly isn’t in at the moment. Maybe Farrell is mindful of that.

TRC10

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118117484#Comment_118117484

The draw ensures this time we won't get past the quarter final.

What a loser mentality

We've won 2 of the last 5 v NZ and been competitive in another 2.

France we know we're well capable of beating.

Also, both nations are prone to a World Cup capitulation

Get out of the group without massively exerting ourselves like we did in the last 3, and we can give either of them a serious run

UAEguy2020

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118117484#Comment_118117484

If we are good enough to win a 6N or Grand Slam we are good enough to win a RWC QF, what will give us the best chance of doing so is actually preparing for the RWC properly, playing so many older players will ensure we arent ready.

starkid

going by the team thats mooted...i don't think Af is necessarily going on URC form. which i am utterly shocked by /s

https://www.unitedrugby.com/statistics/players

but of course we don't really reward form in Ireland in match day selections, we rely on credit in the bank. James Lowe saids hello.

bilston

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118117317#Comment_118117317

30!

Jeepers...I'm surprised they let him out of the Nursing home on his own to play rugby if he's that old

UAEguy2020

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118117484#Comment_118117484

Consider the amount that has been done well from an Irish perspective it still amazes me how much of a loser mentality we have, even Scotland wouldnt go into a QF with this much defeatism.

UAEguy2020

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118117518#Comment_118117518

Well considering we went into the last 2 RWC's with the oldest squad I would worry about the trend being set 2 years out. I wouldnt mind an older squad if that older squad brought experience and professionalism to the table but all they bring is capitalism and a complete lack of preparation.

TRC10

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118117523#Comment_118117523

What Scotland did in 2015, was they played a weakened team v SA in the pool and phoned in that game. They focused 100% of their physical and emotional energy on the 1/4 final.

And they should have won that game but for a dodgy ref call and should have been in the semi final.

That's what we should be doing in 2023. Get past Scotland and nevermind the SA game. France or NZ in the 1/4 is equally tough so who cares.

Then we can focus 100% on delivering our "world cup final" performance in the 1/4 final instead of in a pool game like we've done in the last 3 world cups

Must love hardship

Looking forward to this block of games.

I think farrell was/is an excellant coach but im still unsure if he is a good head coach or just an average one. For me the jury is still out.

Yes he added O connell to his team and parts of our game improved last year but he still retained catt. The elephant in the room.

I think 11 or 12 of the proposed selections for the game this weekend are ones 90% of us would habe picked ourselves.

For me it's the 9 selection that most frustrates me.. I dont see what management sees. I wouldn't have him in my top 5 9's in the country and wouldn't start him in a million years.

I also I think too many of us are getting hung up on these 2 or 3 positions we are not happy with and blinded by it.

I think a lot of us are focusing on a few older selections. A few if these players for me have earned the right to play again in front of a near full stadium again.

If however they play all 3 games and then the 6 nations that's a different story.

For me more than the selection its how we try and play rugby that I'm looking forward too And will focus on over the selections.. If we try and kick chase and not play rugby we are in for a seriously frustrating year...

Before farrell We had Joe who was effectively in charge of attack and had great starter plays and everyone knew their job.. we work well under this situation.

now we have catt in charge of attack and we seem blunt and devoid of an actual game plan.. the French game last year was the biggest example of this... we are very disjointed and plays are breaking down and we look poorly coached To be honest...

My big worry is that Starting JGP is a bad bad decision For these 2 games.

What jumps out to me from the selection is Conway and Lowe on the wings.

both have been utilised by farrell and catt to mainly chase box kicks In attack.

Say what you like about Murray but his box kicks while frustrating to watch are 90% on the money. In that 25 metre area with perfect hang time for a chaser...

I'd say JGP would struggle to land 50% of his box kicks in the That 22-25 metre area.. its just not his game.

And potentially we are going to hand loose turn over ball to Japan and New Zealand in broken play two weeks in a row.

Two teams who will relish this type of ball with at least one winger out of position..

We might be the better squad and team on paper to Japan but I think Japan might be better coached and could turn us over.

stephen_n

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118115565#Comment_118115565

I’ve never heard the coaching team talking about cycles. Or World Cups when it’s not a WC year. I think you’re getting confused between what people on here think and say and what “the setup” says.

Must love hardship

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118117565#Comment_118117565

They talked about it this year.. search for Johnny Sexton interview from last week..

Talked about the worldcup 2 years out and then picked a team for 2 years ago..

lawrencesummers

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118117348#Comment_118117348

Earls and POM are different.

I dont think Earls should be there, the autumn is time for other players to get shot, and games against tier 2 sides especially so, If earls comes back for the NZ game because nobody else is at his level then fine.

The same with POM to a degree, except that the selection of POM might relate to a particular game plan around having a stronger offensive and defensive lineout, because like it or not there isnt a BR in the country as capable in the lineout so its horses for courses and that selection and picking him means other areas can suffer.

lawrencesummers

Does anyone miss the input of Niel Francis during a week like this?

no i didnt think so.

UAEguy2020

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118117545#Comment_118117545

But also bare in mind that was a Scotland team that were the wooden spoon holders of that years 6N, we on the other hand should be good enough to potentially win our pool and also be ready to atleast give it a good go in the QF. The issue for me in our RWC failures isnt just the loss its how we lost, we never even put up a fight.

stephen_n

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118117582#Comment_118117582

Do you mean Sexton responding to a specific question from a Journalist

Must love hardship

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118117630#Comment_118117630

Google it.. dont take my synopsis as gospel

was in the news last week . Said it was first time a management team had discussed world cup a few years out.

stephen_n

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118117545#Comment_118117545

Wouldn’t let me quote the actual post for some reason.

You said other nations don’t take the November internationals as seriously as we do. Where’s the evidence for that? Will NZ be putting out a bunch of uncappped players against us, fielding a second string team? No they absolutely will not, they will treat it like any other test match. France are probably the only team that would field an experimental team in the Ai’s and that’s just a reflection of their player depth.