Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

UAEguy2020

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118120289#Comment_118120289

They had a lock who was 6 ft 1 playing against us in June and still stole plenty of our line out ball...dont put it past this Irish team to screw something up.

VayNiice

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118120237#Comment_118120237

Hopefully someone will be able to make up for all those lost 0.5m carries we'll lose with cj bejng gone

lawrencesummers

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118120266#Comment_118120266

Wrong.

He retired at the end of his contract which was in June.

He had announced his retirement as starting at the end of Munsters Season.

ujjjjjjjjj

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118119545#Comment_118119545

Ah I get it now - it's all a giant conspiracy to slowly just let Leinster take over the Irish team...........Leo is actually in charge and Farrell is just a puppet on a string wearing a tinfoil hat.

UAEguy2020

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118119909#Comment_118119909

The fact we have picked daddy's army to play an athletic fast team probably speaks volumes of how prepared we are for this game.

aloooof

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118120307#Comment_118120307

It really isn't. I remember Niamh Briggs was on a podcast after the Scotland 6N game (either that or Wales). They strike off a scrum on the right, ends it territory gain for Wales on Earls wing. But it was because Keenan was pushing over to help Lowe on his wing and Earls was left defending 30m's of the width of the pitch beyond the edge. There isn't another winger in the squad we'd be happy defending that width.

He's been comfortably our best winger from a defensive side of things for years and years.

aloooof

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118120310#Comment_118120310

See, why would I read beyond your first 4, condescending, words?

sydthebeat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118119376#Comment_118119376

maybe im a touch defensive after the last few hyperbolic days, and i cant judge tone from posts on the best of days..... so apologies to awec if i picked up the post wrong.

i still think that the raw material (the young player) is the same at all provinces, but the process to create the finished product (the professional player) is purely down to the provincial system they go through. so we cannot put the the lack of diverse provincial representation solely at the feet of the IRFU, in my opinion of course.

aloooof

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118120317#Comment_118120317

I specifically said "strength in the tackle." But you want to set up a complete strawman / bad-faith argument.

This place really turns into a sewer around the international window.

Former Former Former

Have to admit, it is kind of refreshing for a poster to actually say, yeah I just want more players from my province.

Fair play Lawrence.

UAEguy2020

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118120337#Comment_118120337

How many wingers actually get to play though, you mean he's comfortably the best winger out of the ones who have gotten proper game time in the side which isnt saying much.

Dubinusa

I don't think CJ will be missed too much. Conan for me is and was a better option, injury of course has hampered him.

I think Coombes will be a vastly better player than CJ.

Doris is a concern though! His concussions are a worry. He could be a longtime international, but I doubt he will last very long. I feel the same regarding James Ryan. It's really frustrating for the players and for us as fans.

CJ was great in respect to his health and toughness. He didn't miss any significant time and was a solid player for us.

I think the options right now are just better. Doris and Coombes obviously the future and Conan playing magnificent rugby!

VayNiice

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118120346#Comment_118120346

Ah well you won't smell the sewer on your high horse so why worry?

VayNiice

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118120338#Comment_118120338

I'm assuming that's a no then

aloooof

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118120405#Comment_118120405

Great. A "best-players-get-the-most-minutes-shocker" merry-go-round for wingers, now. And it doesn't stack up to any scrutiny.

aloooof

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118120421#Comment_118120421

I've seen him plenty. I'd say there's about 10-15 back-row players ahead of him.

Yeah_Right

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118120244#Comment_118120244

Sexton - I'd say arrogant, abrasive and at times petulant. Don't think he has ever shown the self-agrandising, egotistical behaviour that Zebo has on social media. Pretty sure Sexton has never mocked or belittled Ireland when they lost.

lawrencesummers

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118120386#Comment_118120386

something i never said.

I just want the best players picked, or the next best to give gametime and develop a squad.

James Lowe is neither of those two things, something that has nothing to do with his club, in fact he is playing with the best club in the country and one of the best in Europe so he should find it a lot easier to look good.

I dont agree with Earls being involved, or POM, or Murray, but i can see some reasoning behind those calls like proven experience, a very good understanding of the systems and gameplan and the fact that at one time or another over the last few years they have been the best player in their position, three things that lowe is not.

lawrencesummers

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118120453#Comment_118120453

Self- aggrandizing and egotistical is exactly what I would call sextons reaction to being substituted against france.

aloooof

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118120459#Comment_118120459

I've long been a critic of Lowe given his performances over the 6 Nations (and even ANC) but it's a little reductive to say "best" as it's completely subjective.

There was certainly a period where Lowe was the most physical and best offloading winger we had. I can see why Farrell may be prepared to give Lowe one last shot to try reap the benefits there. I'm also not surprised it's come with one of Earls or Conway on the other wing. I can't really see him having any combo of Stockdale, Lowe and Larmour at the moment.

lawrencesummers

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118120501#Comment_118120501

You can be sure he will get a chance to prove his defensive ability if he plays more than one game this Autumn because every team will have done their homework, watched his mistakes at this level, attack his side and turn him inside out.

awec

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118120344#Comment_118120344

It's not solely at their feet but it's their job to sort it out. The provinces are not independent entities, they're just 4 departments of the same business. Ultimately the buck stops with Nucifora as he's the top dog in the professional side of the IRFU. I have my own views on what the issues are but it's not my job to fix it.

If the raw material is the same at all the provinces (I don't believe it is), then the question must be asked what is different about Leinster that they are able to churn out players at a rate that far exceeds the other 3 provinces combined.

Like I don't want to rant on this but I think it's fairly sad that Ireland have basically turned into Leinster plus tokens. The 1 + 3 provincial model we have right now is not sustainable in the long term.

Jump_In_Jack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118120319#Comment_118120319

Wrong, he was available for the summer tests too and the lions too. Look it up before posting incorrect statements.

”He says he will play until the end of the mid-year Test window, which would leave him available for any Ireland summer internationals or the Lions series against South Africa.”

https://www.the42.ie/cj-stander-retiring-5382776-Mar2021/?amp=1

Jump_In_Jack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118120453#Comment_118120453

Zebo never mocked Ireland, he had a go at the Irish selectors for stonewalling him when he was abroad.

molloyjh

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118120772#Comment_118120772

I completely see your point, but it’s very hard to see a solution really. How many players have left Leinster (for another province) and seen it work out better for them really? Has there been any at all? Even looking at Jordi Murphy, a regular in the Irish set-up, goes up North and is never selected again. Why is that?

Beyond the playing resourcing side, do we invest more heavily in the other provinces? But to do that means directing funds away from Leinster. And that’s taking money away from the one area that is truly delivering. Is that really a smart move? How will that impact the Irish side and how long before that bears fruit elsewhere?

Im not a fan of the reduction in games in the league and Europe for a few reasons, but hopefully one benefit is that we’ll see a better distribution of talent around the country. But is that enough? Is it okay for every province to have a collection of Leinster players? What is the ultimate goal that we want to move towards?

Jump_In_Jack

@molloyjh

“Is it okay for every province to have a collection of Leinster players?”

I think so yes.

Take some of Munster fans’ favourite players for example,

Beirne, Conway, Carbery, Loughman, Salanoa, and new recruits Osborne, Patterson, before them Conor Oliver, Felix Jones, and that’s off the top of my head.

Munster always welcome players in and try to get the most out of them.

it definitely works for Munster in my opinion.

we have to be real, either we accept we need a few players to augment the squad, or we resign ourselves to playing at a lower level.

Jump_In_Jack

@molloyjh

”What is the ultimate goal that we want to move towards?”

I think the goal has to be to produce as much talent locally as possible and then highlight the gaps and try to marry up the gaps with players within the IRFU system and Irish eligible players abroad and a few targeted world class players for specific key positions.

Munster is doing a great job at the moment in my opinion is pulling everything together, pity that Snyman didn’t work out and Jenkins hasn’t been fit yet either, but De Allende was definitely needed to help get to the next level.

Leinster will produce more high quality players each season than probably the other provinces combined, just the sheer number of schools backs that up.

I think if the player has the right attitude to move and give it a go with another province that has a gap needing to be filled, then that is the ideal outcome for player and province alike.

the local talent may feel hard done by, but that’s the tough call to spot talent and balance that against needs to get results versus backing home grown players that may not be up to it.

molloyjh

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118120941#Comment_118120941

All fair, but longer term I wonder would everyone agree. If that’s the way we’re happy going then that doesn’t mean diverting much, if any, money away from Leinster and to the their provinces. Meaning not a whole lot of change as Leinster are likely to retain the best of their own talent.

Paul Smeenus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118120887#Comment_118120887

Well, if you're not talking about players established at Leinster, I'd say the move has worked out pretty well for Timoney. And AOC. And EOS.

If you are talking about established players, then I'd say Jordi has gotten playing more rugby, and played a bigger, more influential part in the Ulster squad, than he'd have at Leinster. Jack McGrath we'll see when he comes back.

That's not to say I'm enamoured of having a load of lads from Leinster at Ulster, but if you're genuinely asking, I'd say there's a number that it's been beneficial to. Timoney was released by Leinster and is now in the Ireland squad.

And we're all quite excited about Izzy, who would have had a lot more game time if not for injury.

molloyjh

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118121003#Comment_118121003

I probably should have been more specific. I was talking about national squad prospects. Timoney is arguably the only example of someone it has worked for.